| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| Bugs |
Hosepipe bans call in South Easthttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4744862.stm
Our water company has already made ominous noises in the latest newsletter so I don't think they need any "calls". Might just have to risk another delivery from the council's composter/water butt offer (which as far as I can see is the same offer for the rest of the Western world). We've been looking for water butts for months locally but they've usually been given a good kicking and had all their accessories and prices removed before we get to them. I really wish there was a more efficient way of getting water from the bath to outside - we are in a bungalow and our house is at the bottom of the garden, if you stand about half way up the garden you're level with the tip of the roof, so the first person who says "syphon" may find themselves in sudden unexpected pain 
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| Bernie66 |
A small cheap water pump, I know they are sold for around £15.00 upwards at certain DIY stores. Obviously not a syphon 
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| Lozzie |
Would I say "syphon"? Huh! As IF!
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| Bugs |
Are they? Can you show me a picture of one? Are they quite sturdy? How are they powered? I think we would seriously consider this if it was long lasting as we could use it in the future anyway, hosepipe bans or not. And would they cope with the shampoo/soap etc that would inevitably be in bathwater? |
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| Lozzie |
Bugs, do you live near a decent aquarium shop? They often sell pumps that are rated srtongly enough to power quite big water features and filtering systems in ponds etc - they should be able to advise you. | ||||||
| Bernie66 |
will have a hunt around, bear with me. Some are designed for "dirty water" i.e. emptying flooded basements etc so I would imagine they would cope with your bathwater
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| Treacodactyl |
The problem with a hoze pipe ban is that AFAIK it's illegal to use a hose to siphon water (via a pump) out of the bath with a hose. I'm sure I could rig something up to pump the water out of the baths waste pipe directly into a water butt, we have a spare pond pump after all. | ||||||
| Nick |
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?cId=101407&ts=71656&id=21790
And you can buy miles of blue, external water piping to fit it for nothing at a builders merchant. I think I paid a tenner for 50 metres last year. Soap's not going to hurt pumps like that. |
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| Lozzie |
Plus, you could bury the pipe and no one would know it was there. | ||||||
| bernie-woman |
That is absolutely ridiculous - what reasoning do they give for that decision |
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| Bernie66 |
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/sea/searchresults.jsp?_dyncharset=UTF-8&q=water+pump&pn=1&pd=1&pi=1&cn=1&cd=1&x=5&y=6
Are the type of things I had in mind. |
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| Bernie66 |
Someone is always a bit quicker than me 
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| Treacodactyl |
We need Behemoth to answer that one. I think the main reason is so people don't siphon the water out of a bath and then run the cold tap and get round the ban that way. However, in *real* life responsible people like me will abide by the hose pipe ban and everyone else in the street will carry on using them to wash down their patios, cars etc and water their lawns. Grrrr. |
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| Nick |
Anyone know if the ban would apply to me, as I'm not on the grid for water, at either in, or out?
The well is on my property, and although it's not possible to prove, all my land is above the well, so the water in it arguably is water that fell on my land, and therefore MINE! Course, the downside is I have no pressure, so the hose is a pointless device, but I'd be interested to know. Presumably, waterboards are producing the ban, and this they can only apply to their customers (so they can't restrict customers of neighbouring waterboards), so they can't touch me? |
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| Treacodactyl |
IIRC you don't own the water on your land! | ||||||
| Bernie66 |
You're not wrong there! Why is it that they don't link the resevoirs of the country are not linked together to distribute water where its needed? |
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| Bugs |
Depends on what a dirty girl I am doesn't it? 
The one Nick (and some of those you followed up with) posted says "clean water" pump...does that make a great difference? Just how dirty is "dirty"? On the other hand the pond pump obviously has some method of coping with all sorts of flora and fauna that I rarely find myself washing off in the bath (actually I rarely have baths, good little Downsizer that I am but our shower is over the bath so I could put the plug in and save that). I'd have thunk an aquarium shops pumps would be a bit fancy for bathwater wouldn't they? |
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| Nick |
No, I'd kind of come to expect that. However, I'm not their customer, so their ban ain't mine, is it?
As an interesting aside, they have threatened to cut me off three times for failing to admit I'm on their mailing list. |
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| Northern_Lad |
One reason I heard this morning was that it's because water is heavy. 
Anyway, would you want your nice and tasty soft water contaminated with lumps of chalk like they have down there? |
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| Nick |
Dirty water will have grit, silt, frogspawn, toilet paper, dust, whatever in it. Bathwater is clean, even after you've been ferreting away in it.
Aquarium/pond pumps are going to be smaller, more compact, more robust for dirty water and aimed at hobbyists. And therefore more expensive. |
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| Bugs |
Thank you Mr Howe, I'd always wondered about that. We'll have to look at figuring something out, I have known it's a terrible waste for a long time so it's a pity to need this push to do something about it 
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| Nick |
Course, if you'd done it before, you might not have caused this ban in the first place. 
</Holier than thou> |
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| Bernie66 |
Tut tut
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| Bugs |
Thanks for that encouragement - if anyone needs me I'll be in the corner, scourging myself.
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| Nick |
Use a dry cloth please. | ||||||
| Bugs |
I'm not sure a cloth is very effective for scourging? But I'll be careful not to make a mess. | ||||||
| Nick |
Good good, carry on.
I'll be in the bath, if anyone needs me. |
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| Treacodactyl |
Don't forget to sell the water off via Ebay. |
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| Penny Outskirts |
Bless em!
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| Penelope Anderson |
During the war (39-45) we had a hand operated pump for putting out fires - domestic size. One end went in a bucket of water, it had a handle which was pumped up and down manually and a hose pipe attached sprayed out the amount of water needed. Of course the bucket had to be filled constantly, but it was very energy efficient and worked - I saw it used on two occasions.
Now I should like one of thse pumps so that I could spray my bath/shower water on the garden. |
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| Bugs |
That's the kind of thing I would like too Penelope; a bit more reliable, forgiveable and better exercise than an electric one!
Only thing is if there was a ban on hosepipes I wouldn't be surprised if that was also illegal
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| Penelope Anderson |
Probably, Bugs. They don't trust us do they? 
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| Bugs |
Unfortunately I suspect not. They should do though, shouldn't they? 
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| Penelope Anderson |
They used to trust us! When, and how, did it all go wrong?
(I don't think this is for this thread though) |
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| Lozzie |
Penelope - do you mean like a stirrup pump?
Modern versions still widely available, but normally for inflating footballs! - 
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| Jb |
you could also try a bilge pump, something like this | ||||||
| Penelope Anderson |
Yes I do Lozzie, thanks, had just forgotten the name! Glad to know they can still be got. | ||||||
| Lozzie |
"Bilge". I love that word. | ||||||
| bernie-woman |
I am sure that is what my grandfather used to say he had when he had eaten too much like after Sunday roasts
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| Lozzie |
My father used it as a term for anything he considered to be utter codswallop, balderdash, nonsense, tripe etc. "What bilge!" he would shout, normally at the television. He managed to enunciate the word in such a way as to make it sound almost obscene.
Excuse me, I am totally off-topic
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| 2blackcat |
The funny thing is there have been two leaks on the mains on my usual dog walking round for at least three weeks
Thames Water are aware as they've put down those little yellow foot plates And now they tell me there's a possibility of hose pipe bans? Well, all I can say is %"^& *^!%^£"^^ &^%* ()@?><@: 
Ahhh, that feels better 
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| Bugs |
In yesterday's local free paper was a (not very big) notice from the local company that a ban would be in force from 1am on 1 March. | ||||||
| Lozzie |
Aesthetically speaking (not that Treacodactyl isn't pretty as a picture, I'm sure) wouldn't you like one of these -
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| Penelope Anderson |
Yes it's pretty and looks functional, but I am not sure that it would work as well as the stirrup pump. The sideways pressure needed might make it slip in the bath!! | ||||||
| wellington womble |
hosepipe bans are useless - often they only refer to unattended hoses (like sprinklers, which clearly should be banned) but then my seep hose system for watering the veg is out, but Mr Nextdoor, washing his car is OK.
Presumably they are totally unenforcable anyway! Watermeters are probably a better way, with rising charges ocer a certain amount (abit like income tax - oh dear!) |
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| Bugs |
Out of the mouths of babes... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/15/nwater15.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/03/15/ixhome.html |
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| Andy B |
Aren't they thinking of building lots of new houses down there ? | ||||||
| Bugs |
I don't know if it says in that article but on the radio where I heard about it it said Thames had filled in 7 reservoirs (implying recently ) to make room for building houses. TD thought they might be more processing reservoirs rather than storage ones (see, we do talk to each other!) but it still seems a bit short-sighted...
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| Behemoth |
Yes - they'll be part of the distribution system and wont contribute to the toal resources available. | ||||||
| Bugs |
Are you talking about the reservoirs B? | ||||||
| Northern_Lad |
Probably both: commuters and water. |
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| Behemoth |
More accurately they'll be 'storage reservoirs' that store treated water in the distribution system. If the distribution system has been modified and modernised they may not be needed any more so will be sold of as brown field sites for development.
Thames has very few reservoirs that collect and store raw water for treatment, something to do with a lack of hills and uppity locals. |
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| Northern_Lad |
See, this is why grammar is important. You've just implied the Thames area is short of uppity locals. I don't know, you do your best to educate the more unfortunate elephants in society...
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| Treacodactyl |
From the BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4896342.stm
It says the water companies can fine but will give you a warning first.
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| wellington womble |
I've been trying to find a way to get this sorted out for the veg garden. As far as I can find out, we do indeed have a hosepipe ban (three valleys water) and that means that we can't water a private garden or wash a car with a hosepipe. You can do anything else you like with a hosepipe - water an allotment, wash the patio, your bike, the dog, fill a swimming pool etc etc.
That means, if I use a hosepipe to pump the water out of my shower/bath onto the garden, I will be in breach of the ban. I wonder if this applies to using blue plastic pipe, which is not a 'hose'pipe? or to filling the butt, which is not watering the garden with the hose (directly) I hope that by using the hosepipe I have in existance to fill a watering can, that will be OK (the veg garden is about 100 foot from the tap!), but plan to fill up a water butt from the bath anyway. I know it will be obeying the spirit and not the letter, but it's got to beat using mains water direct. If necessary I will fit a tap on the garden-end of the hose, and mount it on a post. I'm not trying to beat the ban - I would rather use recycled water, and will if I can (and provided I don't get prosecuted, which looks unlikely without a talking to first) I'm happy to use a watering can, just don't want to carry it so far! |
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| jamsam |
i lived with these bans when i was growing up, we always had a bath orwater butt full in the gardn which was enough for a few weeks worth of water figts and paddling pools, but we never actually stopped using the hose pipe..who enforces these bans? whats the fine?? | ||||||
| dougal |
Hold on !!! Lets just check what the law *really* says. In the BBC story above the Water Co spokesman speaks about powers under s76 of the Water Industry Act 1991. We can find that here http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1991/Ukpga_19910056_en_9.htm#mdiv76 and s76(1) reduces to
So there we have it. Its - the use of the Water Co's water - through a hosepipe (or anything like a hosepipe) - for watering "private gardens" (undefined!!) that is prohibited by s76. Personally, I suspect that an allotment might count as a "private garden" - and there are going to be other powers (apart from s76 WIA 1991) which prevent watering golf courses, etc - so don't push that one. BUT the important point is that the ban applies to using a hosepipe to water a garden with water supplied by the Water Co. The hosepipe ban has nothing to do with using hosepipes from *rainwater* butts. Its a nitpicking point, but it looks as though used bathwater (originally supplied by the Water Co) *is* banned from hosepipe distribution. Hey, a naughty person might leave the bath plug out and use the hosepipe willy-nilly, so its banned. Now, if only it would actually rain properly... |
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| Penny Outskirts |
Dougal - our water at work, which is where our plot is, is from a borehole. We were thinking of running a blue water pipe above ground to the plot, and attaching a stand-pipe. From the above, it would seem we are OK to use a hosepipe on the end of this, is this right do you think?
Trouble is, if we can, I'd probably feel morally wrong doing it, when everyone else can't
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| dougal |
Penny, s76 clearly refers *only* to water "supplied" by the Water Co.
As of right now, I have no idea what *other* restrictions (eg watering of Golf Courses) may be in force in whatever parts of the country. Or what legislation applies. It would seem that s74(2)(d) of the Water Resources Act 1991 potentially allows the Water Co to prohibit or limit your use of your own borehole after a "drought order" is in place. http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1991/Ukpga_19910057_en_7.htm#mdiv74 Maybe a call to your Water Co might clarify your situation? |
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| Penny Outskirts |
Thanks Dougal.
I've just looked on the Thames Water website: Thames Water It says that you are allowed to use a hosepipe to re-use wash-water i.e. from a bath or washing machine. No mention of private bore holes though - I'll ring them next week. |
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| wellington womble |
three valleys say allotments are OK, as they aren't private gardens, but that the allotment owner may restrict the use of water (at least one of local ones has, I beleive) They also say you can use bathwater, but doesn't mention a hose (how else could you get it out the bath and onto the garden!)
I suppose you could run baths purely for the purpose of pumping it out to the garden, but I'm guessing the amount of greywater produced by the average family would easily water the average garden - I'm pretty sure ours will. be interesting to see - I'll keep some records, and perhaps jot them down somewhere......
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| Nick |
When Prescott's 200,000 new homes in the South East get built, where are they going to get the water from?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/southern_counties/4772373.stm |
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| dpack |
by drinking the stomach juices of the london zoo camels
ps dishwasher water kills plants |
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| Jb |
They'll be for strangers from 'oop norf', so with the bath full of coal and the larder full of newcastle brown they won't need any of our water.
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| dougal |
Just as well, 'cos there's none for them. (*) Today there was the first step beyond a "hosepipe ban" with the issuing of a "drought order" - likely the first of many - permitting the imposition of much more draconian restrictions. (*) The Jarrow crusade was a while back. Isn't the population growth in the South these days from Polish plumbers and the like? |