Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption
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Treacodactyl
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How can farms serve the local community?Recent discussions have made me think what part farms and other traditional rural businesses can play in the local community. I grew up next to several farms and, mostly, they only employed a couple of people on hundreds of acres producing food that was never sold locally.
Some of the most common suggestions for small farms to make a living also seemed aimed at distant markets. Ideas such as holiday accommodation, shooting, growing unusual 'premium' crops and making woodland products such as hurdles and charcoal. Most of which would be aimed at people with more disposable income and probably tourists or people form outside the community.
So, what can small local farms provide the local community and perhaps more importantly would there be enough people supporting them? Rather than have a heated debate I would like useful suggestions and examples that people will find useful, please.
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alison
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TD
Are you thinking on the lines of traditional farming products, or diversification.
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Rob R
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Re: How can farms serve the local community? | Treacodactyl wrote: | | I grew up next to several farms and, mostly, they only employed a couple of people on hundreds of acres producing food that was never sold locally. |
Tha main thing about farms is not the direct labour they employ, but the huge array of ancillary industries that are there to support them. Unfortunately the demand for cheaper food has ensured that many of these industries have become more centralised & less at local level. Another thing about the labour requirement is that it has not been all one-way- many farms have had to become more efficient because people don't want to do those kind of jobs anymore.
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ken69
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My late brother rented out some of his 10 acres for the village fete and the church fete. He also made a shilling organising a tour of his self sufficiency lifestyle. Like goats, chickens, a huge barn filled with old tractors and so on. Mainly for children.
Plus a farm shop open year round.
He did mention the grants available NOT to grow crops, but have forgotten the details.
A nature trail might work, available to walkers and maybe the local athletics club would pay to use the land
In last Wednesdays Location Location Location Channel 4 a chap was looking for a house with adjoining small paddock for leadership courses. Can't think what he could set up in such a small area.
If I was younger and had five acres I would do a 'John Seymour'.
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mrutty
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| ken69 wrote: | | If I was younger and had five acres I would do a 'John Seymour'. |
What write lots of books, run courses and then claim to be self suffiant? 
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ken69
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P.S...................don't know your circs. Trea....but when I set up a business twenty years ago , the accountant said to declare myself as a handyman to the Inland Rev., rather than as a gardener...More different tools could be used as an expense, even if only used on one job and therefore available for private use.
Also I was making a good 50% extra by added value, like selling peat compost and bags of spuds.
Not sure if there is any gain to be had by running a business at a loss to offset gains elswhere, but I have a relative who does this.
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Nick
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The most obvious local benefit I can see from farmers is they look after the land. I've travelled the country, and this is done least well in intensively arable areas. Norfolk is not a great and green place. When you get small farmers, who mix their land use and keep smaller fields tend to have 'nicer' hedges and so on. I know a lot of it's for their own benefit, partly for working reasons and partly for financial aid (grants and so), but they do it, and we benefit simply because it looks nicer. That doesn't mention the living and breeding grounds for animals, birds, plants and insects.
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gil
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You could take a look at a recent (upcoming?) Soil Association publication about organic farming and on-farm employment. Not got a copy to hand, but as I recall, they were saying that organic farming overall (includng hill farming) generates almost twice as many jobs as conventional, and sometimes far more times that (e.g. horticulture). So running a holding along those lines would contribute to local employment and thus to the community.
Whilst the number of people employed in agriculture has fallen, and not only do farmers' wives tend to work off-farm, but many farmers also work at least part-time off-farm, there can be employment benefits to the community. For example, farmers can set up as contractors [construction, haulage, civil engineering] and if the business takes off, they then need to employ staff. They may also need workers on-farm to replace them whilst away contracting.
Farmers round here have held BBQs, whole animal roasts, etc on their land or in their sheds to raise money for community projects / church / school.
Getting kids from the local primary school in to help plant trees, especially in a field with a right of way running through it, and providing information boards about the different types of tree.
Providing access to ancient monuments (council here provide the info boards), in conjunction with Scottish Heritage. Though some landowners also do their own info, and a picnic site / associated forest walks and cycle trails.
Farm tours, nature trails, etc. with info for the public about wildlife habitat management.
In regions where field boundaries are marked by stone walls instead of hedges, upkeep by farmers maintains the character of the landscape very obviously.
Our parish hall got a new car parking and access area courtesy of local farmers : one has a quarry on his land, and supplied the materials (sub-base and gravel); one supplied the gear to spread, level and firm down; and another one or two came along to help. For nowt.
There are schemes up here (can't remember who organises them) which send farmers into primary school classrooms to talk about farming and food production, sometimes with small livestock (lambs/poultry). Trouble is, most farmers won't take time off to go, so it usually falls to their wives.
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Penny
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| nickhowe wrote: | | The most obvious local benefit I can see from farmers is they look after the land. |
Noticed that today whilst driving back from Builth. Around here (Gloucestershire), most farms are 1000 acre plus, and highly mechanised, whilst the Welsh countryside was dotted with smaller farms, and seemed so much more agricultural. Here there are just huge fields and fields of rape, barley, wheat and set aside. The cotswold stone walls are falling down through lack of maintenance, to be replaced by wire. Over the many years I've lived here, I've really noticed the changes 
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alison
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Rob,
I agree with you.
In farming today it is often not cost effective to hold a lot of machinary to use for only 2 weeks a year, so their are tasks that are contracted out, like fencing, muck spreading, spraying, etc, as well as the legislative things like waste management and livestock disposal.
However, for farms to survive and to add value in what they do diversification is often the key.
We are obviously in the tourist industry, but try to spend our money in the local community, buying our vegetables from the farmers market etc.
We use our local chemist, papershop diy store, and I would call these secondary tourism businesses. A business which may not realise it, but one that has much "tourism" money spent there.
Not only is our "tourism" money spent with them but by sub contracting some of our farming work these local subbies will also spend their money in the same shops, locally.
Incidently, we and many others spend this money all year round, not just during July, August and September!
Another way for farms to develop trade is to add value to their product, as Hugh does in River cottage, rather than sell it at the cheapest to get rid of it.
Hope this makes sense. I had just typed it all out and lost the connection so lost it all.
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mrutty
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Lets rememeber that large fields come from one thing only, the steam plough It spelt the death of the farm horse and took away local jobs. Nothing has really changed since.
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Treacodactyl
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| mrutty wrote: | | Lets rememeber that large fields come from one thing only, the steam plough It spelt the death of the farm horse and took away local jobs. Nothing has really changed since. |
So, how can we change it then?
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Treacodactyl
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| alison wrote: | | Are you thinking on the lines of traditional farming products, or diversification. |
Anything really, traditional products or new ideas. There's some good posts that I'll have a think about.
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mrutty
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| Treacodactyl wrote: | | mrutty wrote: | | Lets rememeber that large fields come from one thing only, the steam plough It spelt the death of the farm horse and took away local jobs. Nothing has really changed since. |
So, how can we change it then? |
Firstly bring back the milk board as that takes away the power of the estate farm in one area.
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gil
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| mrutty wrote: | | Firstly bring back the milk board as that takes away the power of the estate farm in one area. |
mrutty - can you explain what you mean by the 'estate farm' ?
Porbably different further south, but round here, landed estates and their tenanted farms probably help diversify the landscape, as each tenant does something different. Also cos the owners have so much dosh that they're not into maximising profits from the land (probably serves as a tax loss offset against ther share dealings or somethign). They still have a qusi feudal approach and do things for the community.
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mrutty
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Estate farm, owns what normally would be three, four maybe five large farms, own by the likes of Diary crest and others and killed the milk marjeting board. No tentants on it, just staff with maximum output form the land for minimal input.
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Rob R
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| mrutty wrote: | | Lets rememeber that large fields come from one thing only, the steam plough It spelt the death of the farm horse and took away local jobs. Nothing has really changed since. |
Let it go mrutty, the steam plough is not the epitomy of all evil
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Rob R
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| alison wrote: | | We are obviously in the tourist industry, but try to spend our money in the local community, buying our vegetables from the farmers market etc. |
That is another point on the contenscious issue of agricultural subsidisation- although it is the farmer getting the payment, a lot more people have benefitted from it in many cases- will they notice when it's gone? 
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Nick
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That'll depend how it goes. When a pit or a factory closes, we know the local economy suffers. When farms lose cash, the same is bound to happen, but in a much smaller way. The decline will be gradual, rather than Friday, 5pm 2,000 people are instantly out of work. Farmers will carry on. They don't need the subsidies. It'll be a struggle, for sure, and some will fall by the way side, but farming will not stop. In many cases, it'll diversify (we're already seeing it) and open famr parks, or maize mazes, or shoots, or lambing courses, or rare breeds, or whatever. These will directly involve the locals and tourists more than 'standard' farming.
On the plus side, of course, the money is ours anyway, as taxes, so we can all expect a cut in taxes as less is being spent.
Also, farmers provide landing strips for flying pigs.
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Rob R
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I think you underestimate the effect of the changing subs system Nick- I would say that the decline has happened rather quickly (ie mainly last year), with more land owners opting out of actually farming the land & just collecting the payments, as they are no longer linked to the production. It must have had quite a significant effect, nationally, on the ancillary industries over the past two years. It can only be a good thing long term, but people (across the board) must be feeling the effects right now.
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Nick
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Oh, I'm not suggesting it won't have an affect, just that it's more gradual than an instant employer closing, simply because of the sudden impact when a factory shuts.
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Rob R
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True. It's not as dramatic so it goes largely unreported.
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mrutty
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| Rob R wrote: | | mrutty wrote: | | Lets rememeber that large fields come from one thing only, the steam plough It spelt the death of the farm horse and took away local jobs. Nothing has really changed since. |
Let it go mrutty, the steam plough is not the epitomy of all evil |
It's the root of all evil 
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sean
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| mrutty wrote: |
It's the root of all evil |
I thought that was docks.
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mrutty
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| Rob R wrote: | | I think you underestimate the effect of the changing subs system Nick- I would say that the decline has happened rather quickly (ie mainly last year), with more land owners opting out of actually farming the land & just collecting the payments, as they are no longer linked to the production. It must have had quite a significant effect, nationally, on the ancillary industries over the past two years. It can only be a good thing long term, but people (across the board) must be feeling the effects right now. |
That's another important split, the difference between land owner and tenant farmer. The land owner will always be able to raise cash, where as the tenant is in a difficult position.
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Rob R
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| sean wrote: | | mrutty wrote: |
It's the root of all evil |
I thought that was docks. |
No thistles, the docks have given up pretty easily compared to thistles 
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Rob R
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| mrutty wrote: | | That's another important split, the difference between land owner and tenant farmer. The land owner will always be able to raise cash, where as the tenant is in a difficult position. |
Precisely
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gil
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| mrutty wrote: | | Estate farm, owns what normally would be three, four maybe five large farms, own by the likes of Diary crest and others and killed the milk marjeting board. No tentants on it, just staff with maximum output form the land for minimal input. |
Thank you for explaining that, mrutty. So it's a kind of 'corporate farm', owned by food manufacturers / processers / distributors (or perhaps by a syndicate of non-farmers holding the land as an investment) ? That's rather different from round here (which isn't a predominantly dairy area), where the landed estates tend to have their farms tenanted, rather than 'in-hand'.
Isn't it interesting in this thread to see how much the agricultural landscape (in its widest sense) varies throughout these islands ? From the prairies of East Anglia to the small fields of Wales and the West, etc...
So whilst our ideas may be transferrable, their application would be local and context-dependent.
RobR and Alison, it seems to me that farmers not having all the gear for all tasks, and outsourcing to contractors has spawned a raft of ancillary agricultural services which employ a lot of folk here : fencing, forestry, drainage, lime-spreading, silaging, tractor and other equipment repair and maintenance. There are also contract shepherds, lambers, clippers, dippers... And folk (often farming women) who do the increasing amounts of paperwork involved and keep livestock records.
I'm not saying whether these are good things or not, just that it's how things are (here and now). D&G is still very rural and the main industries are farming and forestry, with tourism in 3rd place at best, possibly lower down. The council and health board are major employers. Most income made here is spent in the region, though not always with locally-owned businesses.
Farmers who diversify into tourism-related activities commission local craftspeople to produce wood sculptures, playparks, outdoor picnic tables and benches.
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Rob R
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What I'd much rather see the rural subsidy paid on (in addition to environmental benefits) is something to encourage younger people to return to live & work in the countryside, as it's been a one way stream for a long time now.
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Andy B
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This subsidy thing, We buy food from farmers abroad, damage the environment shipping or flying it everywhere. Then pay our people not to grow stuff. And this is so we can all have cheap food.
Er Right !!!!!!!!! 
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Rob R
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| Andy B wrote: | This subsidy thing, We buy food from farmers abroad, damage the environment shipping or flying it everywhere. Then pay our people not to grow stuff. And this is so we can all have cheap food.
Er Right !!!!!!!!! |
It sure is
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