Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption
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Jb
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How long do preserves preserve?Searching through the chaos that currently pass for my kitchen (we have builders in so I don't know where anything is  ) I have discovered at the lower depths of the precambrian layers of my cupboards a whole load of preserves, including pickled onions, chutneys, chilies and even a kilner of rhubarb liquer.
Now the question is how long can this lot last? Obviously anything that was shop bought would have a date on it but this was stuff that I made 3 - 4 years ago and while it will get discarded simply because I have newer stuff made since then it set me wondering just how long one could keep home made preserves.
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judith
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If you had sterilised jars and good seals, then the food will almost certainly be SAFE to eat. Whether it is WORTH eating is something else entirely. I find that foods preserved with vinegar deteriorate fastest - they tend to soften and lose their colour, texture and flavour after a year or so. I would expect the pickled onions to be unpalatably soft.
The liqueur, on the other hand, would probably be OK.
Edited to say that I would probably chuck them myself if I had more recently preserved jars on my shelves.
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cab
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I've got a jar of chutney on the go made in 1984. If you're absolutely confident that it was bottled sterile, and has remained so, then great. If you're not that confident, you'll make youself sick with worry after eating it anyway, so chuck it.
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Jb
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As I said most was discarded simply because I have newer batches on the go. The pickled onions I tried out of curiosity and while not unpalatable they had started to soften, i.e. they tasted like pickled onions but had little of the crunch. The chutneys I wasn't worried about. The chilies in vinegar on the other hand looked like something that belonged in a medical museum.
The question really is how long _could_ they last. Is home preserving inherently less durable than a commercial process, are the dates on shop bought jars just so much fiction to persuade one to throw it out and buy another?
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Jb
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| cab wrote: | | I've got a jar of chutney on the go made in 1984. If you're absolutely confident that it was bottled sterile, and has remained so, then great. If you're not that confident, you'll make youself sick with worry after eating it anyway, so chuck it. |
Actually with this lot I am reasonably certain it was sterile. My approach with bottling has generally been to wash jars, then rinse in just boiled water from a kettle, then dry in a hot oven and use them immediately. I could probably add a rinse in a bleach solution but I don't always do that, typically I only do that if the jar was used for something strong smelling before I reuse it in which case it gets an extra rinse as well.
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cab
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| JB wrote: |
The question really is how long _could_ they last. Is home preserving inherently less durable than a commercial process, are the dates on shop bought jars just so much fiction to persuade one to throw it out and buy another? |
That's a whole field of microbiology!
In theory, they can last for a hell of a lot longer than the use by dates, but those dates are there so that if something -has- gone wrong woth the canning or bottling system, it's a realistic time that tings are going to have gone off by.
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dougal
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| cab wrote: | | In theory, they can last for a hell of a lot longer than the use by dates, but those dates are there so that if something -has- gone wrong woth the canning or bottling system, it's a realistic time that tings are going to have gone off by. |
Sorry, cab, but that doesn't seem to make sense to me...
Are you really saying that the shelf life is quoted as being *long* enough to ensure that it is rotten if the process has a problem?
I've regarded "use by" dates as meaning that the manufacturer feels 100% sure that you can keep it that long. Doesn't mean its unsafe thereafter, just that its out of warranty.
"Best befores" I have taken to refer, not to safety, but to quality. Like the onoins going soft.
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hardworkinghippy
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We made a lovely gateax with cherries in light syrup which were sterilised 15 years ago.
I'm not saying that you should eat very old conserves, but just that we did and we're still hangin' on in there.
:3some:
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2steps
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I found a 2 year old jar of jam when I was packing up to move house. It was still sealed so we kept it. It smelt slighty winey when we opened it but tasted fine
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cab
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| dougal wrote: |
Sorry, cab, but that doesn't seem to make sense to me...
Are you really saying that the shelf life is quoted as being *long* enough to ensure that it is rotten if the process has a problem?
I've regarded "use by" dates as meaning that the manufacturer feels 100% sure that you can keep it that long. Doesn't mean its unsafe thereafter, just that its out of warranty.
"Best befores" I have taken to refer, not to safety, but to quality. Like the onoins going soft. |
I phrased it badly...
Most bacteria and fungi will die off in canning and preserving processes, but with the best will (and most rigorous asepsis and process control!) in the world, you can never be sure.
The shelf life of such products is based on assumptions that there will be some degradation, either chemical, biochemical (enzymes broken with heat will sometimes re-fold) or microbiological. So for example, you've got physical and chemical changes (onions going softer), biochemical changes (jellies going softer and suchlike) and microbiological ones (spores surviving in a preserve, germinating, and affecting quality thereafter).
This doesn't always mean that it's dangerous after the shelf life is up, but you can't really know what was in the manufacturers mind when it was specified. I tend to ignore them and go with my own judgement, but if you're not happy to do that for whatever reason (or just want to be extra safe) then go with the manufacturers claim.
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hermil
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As a footnote to the jar sterilising question - I give them a REALLY good wash and rinse, then while I'm actually making the jam/chutney I put the jars on a wire rack over a shallow baking tray in the oven on a low setting, about Gas Mark 1 (Too high and they might crack). This heats up the jars really well and sometimes the jam actually carries on boiling for a short time when I fill them. I always heat up one or two jars more than I expect to need as it's hard to judge the quantity you will end up with.
Then I make sure the lids are REALLY well screwed down. I only use jars which have previously held jam or pickles, as with peanut butter jars, coffee jars etc. the lids don't usually seal well enough.
I have seldom had any problems with this method. As someone else said it tends to be chutney which discolours first, but then only after about 12 months to 2 years.
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wellington womble
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Also if you heat up the jars too hot, the jam boils over when you fill them - go on, ask me how I know 
I read somewhere that it was a legal requirement for food manufacturers to put a use by date on their stuff not exceeding 18 months after the date it was made. I can't remember where, and might have made it up, but it sounds like a riduclous EU reg to me!
I've no idea how long preserves keep here, as I only just manage to make them last through the year - they do last a full year, even though I use half sugar in the jam.
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sally_in_wales
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The legal bit about use by dates extends to things like soap too. In the case of soap (and I use that example purely becasue I've done the paperwork myself and I suspect food regs are even stricter) we have to put a use by date of about three years or so unless we can categorically prove that it will last longer. Suppose the food sell by dates are the same, unless the manufacturer knows for certain the quality will be unaffected after x months, they have to limit it.
Agree with what others have said though with home made stuff, if it looks right, smells right and tastes right, the overall odds are that it will be ok, but I tend to use caution with the first use of really elderly preserves when I occasionally come across them in the cupboard! Better to be slightly ill than very ill if I get it wrong 
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Erikht
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I would love to taste the liquer. Filter it thru musslin and let it stand for a couple of months, and I'm sure it will be very good.
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