Stacey
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How much do you reckon it costs to raise a porker?In feed costs that is. Buying a weaner (I'm guessing approx 12 weeks) for £35 and raising it to porker age. How much?
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colour it green
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we bought feed from cornwall farmers (the shop - not the actual farmers!) and spent about 60 quid per pig on feed
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Nick
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What are you working on?
One weaner, or 50? (food costs vary enormously based on quantities)
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Stacey
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4 with the costs divided equally between 4 people
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Nick
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OK!
A pig will eat 0.5kg of food per day for every month it is old, until it hits 6 months. Then it'll eat 3kg a day forever. You'll probably get rid of them at, what, 7 months?
So.
Month 1 = 0.5kg/day, 15kg
Month 2 = 1kg/day, 30kg
Month 3 = 1.5kg/day, 45kg
Month 4 = 2kg/day, 60kg
Month 5 = 2.5kg/day, 75kg
Month 6 = 3kg/day, 90kg
Month 7 = 3kg/day, 90kg.
If you ignore the first 3 months, cos you don't get them til they're 12 weeks old, then a pig will eat 60+75+90+90kg of food in it's last 4 months. 315kg.
My food, bought for that kind of quantity is roughly £6.20/20kg. Or 31p/kg. So, one pig eats £97.65 worth of food.
Course, you over feed, you miss a day, you spill some, they escape and nick 4 sacks, the sods, or you feed them apples from the orchard, cutting the food bill. Any use?
Send them off a month early, and you save £27.90. A month later, and it costs you a further £27.90. Make sure you slaughter at the right time.
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Stacey
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£60 - £97? Bit of a difference there 
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Nick
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Food costs vary, and so does length of feeding.
How much is your locally available food and how long do you expect to keep them for?
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Ixy
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pig food in sacks is THE most expensive way to do it - there's lots of cheaper foods. How long each pig takes to finish also varies, as do appetites. It's a bit of a 'piece of string' question, as with any livestock, because everyone does it slightly differently.
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Stacey
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They're GoS apparently. I only need a kind of rough idea I guess. I've never costed it out before.
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Pel
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When myself and the neighbours had 2 weaners back in feb-may.
They had an estimated cost of £91, but the actual split cost was £85.
feeding them on this from age 10 weeks til 27 weeks:
----Type--- Amount---£/bag-- Total
Finisher----3 ------- £7.00----- £21.00
Growers---16 ----- £7.00 ---- £112.00
Oats ------- 3 ------- £5.30----- £15.90
Peas ----- 2 -------- £10.25---- £20.50
Total £169.40
Each £84.70
Edited: we also have figures for what shan mentions below
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Shan
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Remember to add in bedding, water, slaughter and butchering, wormers and transport to and from the abbatoir and butcher's.
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Stacey
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I'm just basically looking at the feed costs right now. I'll add in all the other stuff in a bit. I'm not used to doing it this way 
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Stacey
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| Pel wrote: | When myself and the neighbours had 2 weaners back in feb-may.
They had an estimated cost of £91, but the actual split cost was £85.
feeding them on this from age 10 weeks til 27 weeks:
----Type--- Amount---£/bag-- Total
Finisher----3 ------- £7.00----- £21.00
Growers---16 ----- £7.00 ---- £112.00
Oats ------- 3 ------- £5.30----- £15.90
Peas ----- 2 -------- £10.25---- £20.50
Total £169.40
Each £84.70
Edited: we also have figures for what shan mentions below |
Fab  Would you mind posting the figures for the stuff Shan mentioned?
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Nick
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Wormer. I have a pack that cost me about a tenner. It's less than one third gone after 3 years.
Fencing cost me around £100 for a 50m perimetre enclosure.
I've had the vet out twice in 5 years, less than £80 in total.
Slaughter and cutting about £35 a beast, butchery is 38p/kg after that, working on 75-100kg beasts.
Diesel, well depends how far you have to travel.
Bedding. We get round bale straw, one or two a year which lasts us. £15 each.
Water is free.
Can't think of any other costs. Maybe a fiver's worth of stuff at butchery time (labels, string, bags, etc).
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crofter
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| Nick wrote: |
Can't think of any other costs. |
reseeding?!
edit: eartags?
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RichardW
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| Nick wrote: |
Water is free.
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Is it?
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Rob R
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It is for Nick.
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Nick
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| RichardW wrote: | | Nick wrote: |
Water is free.
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Is it? |
Yes.
Eartags are maybe a pound each. I haven't needed to reseed, nature does that for me, but that's down to having enough rotatable plots, I guess.
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Treacodactyl
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| Nick wrote: | | Can't think of any other costs. |
Lipstick?
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Nick
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I wear that anyway. No extra is required.
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colour it green
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| crofter wrote: | | Nick wrote: |
Can't think of any other costs. |
reseeding?!
edit: eartags? |
we had to buy a tagger .. cost us about 20 quid.
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Pel
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Ours were already tagged, and wormed when bought otherwise these are our other costs:
-----------------------------OSB (gilt)---------Welsh (boar)
Weaner price-----------£35.00------£30.00
Feed price spilt---------£84.70------£84.70
Fencing cost shared-----£4.63------£4.63
Bedding shared-----------£6.00------£6.00
Transport each----------£5.00------ £5.00
Water shared------------£6.00-------£6.00
kill,cut,cure per pig------£140.00----£140.00
Housing--------------------£2.40-------£2.40
Total----------------------- £281.33----£276.33
To add housing and fencing is over 5 years and split between 10 pigs. Water is a estimated amount as we arent metered we just have to pay a lump sum once a year.
So quite a bit of money was spent on two pigs in total about £558, though I think the neighbours enjoyed their first experience and may have learned some things along the way.
Hoping these next two pigs are cheaper, and perhaps go off a little earlier as their finished liveweights were (using a tape) 112kg/247lbs for the Welsh and OSB was 86kg/190lbs and they were nearly 7months old.
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RichardW
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| colour it green wrote: |
we had to buy a tagger .. cost us about 20 quid. |
The solution to that is only buy weaners with metal tags already fitted. Dont allow them to sell you them on a paint mark only even though it is legal. Also then saves you the first time nerves of tagging.
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Stacey
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| Pel wrote: | Ours were already tagged, and wormed when bought otherwise these are our other costs:
-----------------------------OSB---------Welsh
Weaner price-----------£35.00------£30.00
Feed price spilt---------£84.70------£84.70
Fencing cost shared-----£4.63------£4.63
Bedding shared-----------£6.00------£6.00
Transport each----------£5.00------ £5.00
Water shared------------£6.00-------£6.00
kill,cut,cure per pig------£140.00----£140.00
Housing--------------------£2.40-------£2.40
Total----------------------- £281.33----£276.33
To add housing and fencing is over 5 years and split between 10 pigs. Water is a estimated amount as we arent metered we just have to pay a lump sum once a year. |
Thank you 
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colour it green
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| RichardW wrote: | | colour it green wrote: |
we had to buy a tagger .. cost us about 20 quid. |
The solution to that is only buy weaners with metal tags already fitted. Dont allow them to sell you them on a paint mark only even though it is legal. Also then saves you the first time nerves of tagging. |
hm yeh - they came with plastic tags.. but the pig inspector blokie.. told us we had to have them tagged again. so we did. actuallyt eh tagging bit itself was a doddle.
I'm going to have to recheck my feed cost figures... seems off...
water is free for us too as we collect rain water.
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Rob R
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| colour it green wrote: | | hm yeh - they came with plastic tags.. but the pig inspector blokie.. told us we had to have them tagged again. |
Pig inspector?
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colour it green
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| Rob R wrote: | | colour it green wrote: | | hm yeh - they came with plastic tags.. but the pig inspector blokie.. told us we had to have them tagged again. |
Pig inspector? |
someone from animal health came to make sure we we doing it all ok.. well basically not giving them kitchen scraps. he was happy.
it appears to be standard practice in this area.. register a swineherd number and the arrival of some pigs.. and the pig inspector cometh
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Nick
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We had the same. But, he didn't actually look at any animals. Just a bit of paper, and a chat. Haven't seen him since.
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colour it green
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| colour it green wrote: | [I'm going to have to recheck my feed cost figures... seems off...
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nope I'm right - we used just over 20 bags of feed, for 2 pigs. We got them at 2 months old, and killed them at 6 months old.
our bags are 25kilos and cost £6.20 each.
So calculating using Nicks figures, it comes out to 66.96 per pig in just feed costs.
We fed them slightly less, as we went by a pound per month of life, and worked on the principle that they were 2 until they were 3 months old.. iyswim. so they got 2 lbs of food each, until the day they were 3 months old.. and so on.maybe we were under feeding them? but they got garden extras and apples etc.. and the meat to fat ratio is good, and good kill out weights imho.
they were wormed already, so no extra cost for us, transport - just a bit of diesel.. not long distance and bedding.. a few bales of straw.
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ninat
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We slap mark ours rather than ear tag - it always reassuring to see that tattoo on the carcass when you get it back
Your food costs seem quite good CIG- we were paying nearly£8 a bag at one point
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Rob R
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| colour it green wrote: | | Rob R wrote: | | colour it green wrote: | | hm yeh - they came with plastic tags.. but the pig inspector blokie.. told us we had to have them tagged again. |
Pig inspector? |
someone from animal health came to make sure we we doing it all ok.. well basically not giving them kitchen scraps. he was happy.
it appears to be standard practice in this area.. register a swineherd number and the arrival of some pigs.. and the pig inspector cometh |
Oh, never had one of those up here, and never used a metal tag either- funny how different areas vary so much.
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bring me sunshine
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I thought they had to have the tag for the holding they were leaving. Least, that's what I was told...
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chicken feed
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ours have to have our holding number on at slaughter i thought that was across the board to be able to trace the pig to the holding it was reared on. we use a slap mark rather than ear tags for two reasons
1. we can see we have our own pig back from the butchers
2. the pigs dont seem to feel the slap so its less stress (but thats just our opinion)
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Nick
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Rob uses plastic tags, despite DEFRA advice that they don't know of any that will survive the scalding process, his do, and are perfectly acceptable.
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Nick
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| colour it green wrote: | | colour it green wrote: | [I'm going to have to recheck my feed cost figures... seems off...
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nope I'm right - we used just over 20 bags of feed, for 2 pigs. We got them at 2 months old, and killed them at 6 months old.
our bags are 25kilos and cost £6.20 each.
So calculating using Nicks figures, it comes out to 66.96 per pig in just feed costs.
We fed them slightly less, as we went by a pound per month of life, and worked on the principle that they were 2 until they were 3 months old.. iyswim. so they got 2 lbs of food each, until the day they were 3 months old.. and so on.maybe we were under feeding them? but they got garden extras and apples etc.. and the meat to fat ratio is good, and good kill out weights imho.
they were wormed already, so no extra cost for us, transport - just a bit of diesel.. not long distance and bedding.. a few bales of straw. |
My figures were for kilos and 7 months. I think yours come out to the same as mine, given that slight variability.
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colour it green
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| bring me sunshine wrote: | | I thought they had to have the tag for the holding they were leaving. Least, that's what I was told... |
yes same here. woman i bought them from said we would probably 'get away' with using the same tags as the abbatoir did not check much. but we are squeaky new to this and did everything we were told ....
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colour it green
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| Nick wrote: | | My figures were for kilos and 7 months. I think yours come out to the same as mine, given that slight variability. |
yup, I agree
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Rob R
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| colour it green wrote: | | bring me sunshine wrote: | | I thought they had to have the tag for the holding they were leaving. Least, that's what I was told... |
yes same here. woman i bought them from said we would probably 'get away' with using the same tags as the abbatoir did not check much. but we are squeaky new to this and did everything we were told .... |
That's because most people take them to slaughter with just one tag in as they can move farm to farm with a paint mark & usually go to kill before one year old anyway. They have no way of knowing how many times a pig has moved (if it asn't been tagged every time), other than inspecting a series of on farm records. I don't know which idiot dreamed that one up nor why they seem to have a need for a different,more confusing system for each class of animal- it should be all the same & they should pay for the tagging, if that's what they want us to do.
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Ixy
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I like the cattle passport system, as that document travels with each animal and you can see at a glance where it's been. That seems sensible for a 'tracking diseases' POV and easy for us to do. Given the numbers involved with pigs and sheep though I'm not sure how that would work out, although I know people with 500-1000+ cattle who manage. Everything we have now though for pigs and sheep seems costly, confusing and doesn't aid traceability in any meaningful way.
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Nick
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The system for pigs isn't particularly expensive, no idea about sheep. It could be improved, financially and usefully, if there was also an online way of filing movement licences, I guess.
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gardening-girl
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We were lucky enough to be given two Berkshire weaners, also a large bale of straw.Housing and fencing were already in place.Our costs are.
Approx 20 bags of nuts @ £7 =£140.
Vet bill for worming £13.
Tags and applicator £24.23.
Slaughter £34.00
We have yet to sort out transport and price.We also had to buy a minimum of ten tags, so have some for next lot of weaners.
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judith
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| Nick wrote: | | Rob uses plastic tags, despite DEFRA advice that they don't know of any that will survive the scalding process, his do, and are perfectly acceptable. |
I had a severe telling-off on the day and a "We aren't going to prosecute you on this occasion, but don't do it again" letter from trading standards for taking in pigs with plastic eartags.
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Rob R
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| judith wrote: | | Nick wrote: | | Rob uses plastic tags, despite DEFRA advice that they don't know of any that will survive the scalding process, his do, and are perfectly acceptable. |
I had a severe telling-off on the day and a "We aren't going to prosecute you on this occasion, but don't do it again" letter from trading standards for taking in pigs with plastic eartags. |
You could have challenged it, DEFRA say you can use plastic tags if they survive the process, which most tags these days do. The law doesn't say you must use metal.
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Nick
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You can, BUT, if, on the day, they refuse you, you can't take the pigs home, and you'll lose them. Challenge before you go. Don't take the risk.
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Rob R
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| Nick wrote: | | The system for pigs isn't particularly expensive |
Depends how many you have 
Sheep is about to get much more costly.
In pigs, having a tag/slapmark for every move is either costly (in time and money, if you have to get replacements) or pointless (if you have no continuity in the farm records). Also having the DEFRA, BCMS, RPA & trading standards doing essentially the same thing and often giving different guidance leads to even more cost in lost payments, time and money.
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Rob R
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| Nick wrote: | | You can, BUT, if, on the day, they refuse you, you can't take the pigs home, and you'll lose them. Challenge before you go. Don't take the risk. |
Good point. I guess you'd have to do that by sending a pig in with both a metal and a plastic tag- then send the plastic tag into TS when you get it back.
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judith
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I'll leave that battle to someone else - I have a set of metal tags now.
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Rob R
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You can refer them to me
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Ixy
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| Rob R wrote: | | Nick wrote: | | The system for pigs isn't particularly expensive |
Depends how many you have
Sheep is about to get much more costly.
In pigs, having a tag/slapmark for every move is either costly (in time and money, if you have to get replacements) or pointless (if you have no continuity in the farm records). Also having the DEFRA, BCMS, RPA & trading standards doing essentially the same thing and often giving different guidance leads to even more cost in lost payments, time and money. |
The pointless aspect is what makes it expensive IMO. Add up all the money everybody spends on tags and taggers and forms and postage and that's a heck of a lot of money, time and effort for....what exactly? Tells you zip about what that pig's done in it's life.
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colour it green
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| judith wrote: | | I'll leave that battle to someone else - I have a set of metal tags now. |
me too. and now we have bought the tagger,, the tags are not much.
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bring me sunshine
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| colour it green wrote: | | judith wrote: | | I'll leave that battle to someone else - I have a set of metal tags now. |
me too. and now we have bought the tagger,, the tags are not much. |
I'm still new at this but I've sent off 5 pigs now, all with plastic tags. We've only ever had one head back but the tag was still there, exactly where I'd put it - the only difference is how it clean it was
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RichardW
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They say that
a, the heat of the dipping tank might melt the plastic
b, that the auto scraper might brake it or pull it out
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bring me sunshine
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I checked with the abattoir before tagging and they seemed surprised that I was asking 
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Rob R
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Funny how some people/authorities make a big thing about what the rules don't actually say.
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Pel
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Have to say I dont remember our pigs head having their tags still in... i made them into brawn so should really remember if they were there. The only that had the metal tag in, i seem to remember a rip in the ear and the one with plastic disc tag in, just had a hole where it used to be. So that wasnt very good traceability, but they were our pigs heads.
They didnt mind having the old tags in, probably because if they could be bothered to read movement forms they would see the pigs had been transferred to us... identification being the tag, rather than a paint mark (though i think the OSB had one of those too).
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RichardW
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If my pigs were coming back without the tags in I would be thinking there were getting swapped for some reason at the slaughter house.
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Bebo
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The abattoir that we use accepts tags, but always comments favourably to us that we slap-mark them. Supposedly the tags do come off in the tank sometimes and its less hassle for them to identify who's pig is who's with slapmarks.
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Nick
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Our tags are usually ripped out, I guess as part of the dehairing process. My pigs, however, for certain.
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RichardW
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We use metal tags & have never had one come out in the tank or scraper.
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Rob R
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We use plastic tags & have never had one come out once they're dead, even with a change from Cox to Allflex and into the hundreds and two different abattoirs.
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Pel
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You can use a tattoo instead of an ear tag as well, cant you. Perhaps my parents would be willing to mark the next two up for the neighbours. They bought a tattoo kit with i think 2 missing letters, but thats it and no ink for £10 from a bric and brac shop, dad really likes it as it exactly the same as the one he used to use back on the farm. That way you'd still have the ID of them on them.
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Rob R
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The last time I used a tattoo for a movement it was in a OCDS cow so I was a little unsure about it and contacted the RPA helpline who said the tattoo was fine as ID. I sent it off, paperwork all matching the tattoo, and got a call a couple of hours later from the market who said they could still send it but they knew we wouldn't get paid, as they'd had them like that before. I managed to have a tag made up and got to the market just in time (after a couple of hours fetching the tag). Upon complaining to the RPA they said the operator didn't work for them anymore and they weren't responsible for what he'd told us (because I had no proof of it). 
Moral of the story? If unsure about movements, never ring the helpline, always get it in black & white.
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colour it green
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| Nick wrote: | | Our tags are usually ripped out, I guess as part of the dehairing process. My pigs, however, for certain. |
same here - the metal tags we put in were taken out. the plastic discs where still there.
but i know my pigs markings.. and their ear notches. these were definitely our pigs
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