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Katieowl

Huge Electric Bill - HELP!!!!?

We've just had yet another flaming HUGE electric bill Mad

In fact we were looking at energy meters yesterday, but after reading thread on here not sure it will make much difference. We turn stuff off. I try to make best use of the electric oven, have just had a gas hob fitted, have replaced virtually all the appliances with A rated ones, I have low energy bulbs everywhere....

So...apart from my son who seems to be pathologically incapable of turning his PC/TV off Twisted Evil and leaves it running and goes out for 24 hours Rolling Eyes

One of the main contenders HAS to be the immersion heater? I checked the temperature yesterday, and I think it's running too hot, we attempted to turn it down, and OH discovered rust inside the cap, which he thinks must mean it's leaking somehow (steam I suspect!) He's fitting a new immersion rod today, and moving the switch OUT of the cupboard the tank is in (It's in the son's room - a no-go area of teenage filth and difficult to get to) The switch is going in the kitchen below.

So two questions about immersions

1) What temperature should the water be set to - it's 50C at the moment WAAAAY too hot, I've been complaining for months, but only now I've turned the Rayburn OFF - which heats it when it's on, does OH believe it's NOT the Rayburn.

2) What is supposed to be the most effective way of running an immersion? In the summer, I'm turning the Rayburn off...so it's going to be all electric to heat the water. In the winter...it's a boost. But because of all the comings and goings with the kids, and the inaccessability issues its just got left on. At some point in the past I was told that was most economic, but my £400 a quarter bill says different!

The B&B is on it's own heating ring with a seperate electric boiler. We costed that out and I'm sure that's OK. When people are in there they are paying for themselves so to speak.

Of course now, I've also got OH's workshop on the domestic bill! Would it be worth getting a energy monitor to see how much that is actually using ?

Any suggestions?


Kate
Penny Outskirts

Get an energy monitor, and good luck.

Ours this time was just massive, but we use electric for everything, so we're b**gered really Sad
gz

Definitely meter the workshop! Cool
vegplot

50C isn't hot enough as it won't kill off Legionella, you need 55C to do that. If it feels too hot it's likely the thermostat in the immersion is faulty. You might want to try a short length heater which heats only the top of the cylinder and have it on a time switch.

Penny suggestion is very sound it will tell you when your using the most leccy.
Green Rosie

Have you got something like an old freezer? We were given a freezer of unknown age/rating and our electricity consumption shot up until we got another A+ rated one and turned the old one into a wheat store.
Katieowl

Surprised I take your point about Legionella, but it's waaaaay to hot to stick your hand in, surely it's a scald risk?

I can see that super hot water is a bonus, cos' you can dilute it with cold and need a bit less of it?

Kate
Katieowl

Have you got something like an old freezer? We were given a freezer of unknown age/rating and our electricity consumption shot up until we got another A+ rated one and turned the old one into a wheat store.


Nope...got rid of those about three years ago. This one was the most energy efficient when bought it. If freezers have moved on it'll have to wait it's turn, because the dishwasher, washing machine and tumble drier have all died in the last 12 months Rolling Eyes

I use the short or eco settings on everything, and the tumble drier as sparingly as possible (usually only for bedding) I bought one of those drying racks from Lakeland which is supposed to cost 3p an hour to run, which is a marvel...but it's been taken on trust that that IS what it costs to run!

OK so which device will suit best? I was looking at one you plugged in between your gadget and the wall which told you what it cost to run a cycle of your gadget, and another that monitored overall consumption which clipped onto the cable leading into the meter, so I could do domestic, workshop and B&B seperately Cool But I still think I need to know what things seperately cost? Should I get both?

Kate
Jenna

Agree with vegplot re faulty thermostat - in Mad Science, it was a rule of thumb that if you could hold a bottle of hot 'something' in your hand without HAVING to put it down, it was below 60C. Thing 'the regs' require that thermostats for hot water are set below 60 to get rid of the scald risk - if your water is scaldy hot with the therm at 50, suggests your thermostat is broke! Would explain massive bill!

Assume the new element has its own shiny new thermostat? Might be a bit anal to get a thermometer to check the temp of your hot water to make sure it's working OK, but that's what I'd do Laughing Wink
Jb

50C isn't hot enough as it won't kill off Legionella, you need 55C to do that. If it feels too hot it's likely the thermostat in the immersion is faulty. You might want to try a short length heater which heats only the top of the cylinder and have it on a time switch.

Penny suggestion is very sound it will tell you when your using the most leccy.


Though 50C isn't so hot you couldn't pit your hand in without too much risk. My experience is that immersion heaters are notorious for having dodgy thermostats. I wouldn't necessarily put a short rod in - if the tank is suitably insulated there's no great disadvantage to heating the whole tank and leaving it until you need it.

Dodgy insulation and thermostats are more likely candidtes.

PCs and TVs are not the great offendors that some people imagine. PCs can be set to go into standby / hibernate and unless either are using huge ancient CRTs then they won't consume that much power, typically 100W for a PC even without setting up standby. Worth investigating if you've a 1000 of them across a site but a single PC! Jb

and how recently did you have the gas hob fitted? That will make far more difference than the oven. For example an electric hob needs a 20 or 30A supply line fitted by an electrician, an electric oven will run off a three pin plug and turns itself off most of the time once it's up to temperature.

The other big offenders are refrigeration (particularly if you have old big freezers) and the real offender - laundry, ironing an tumble driers are phenomenally energy intensive. Katieowl

PCs and TVs are not the great offendors that some people imagine. PCs can be set to go into standby / hibernate and unless either are using huge ancient CRTs then they won't consume that much power, typically 100W for a PC even without setting up standby. Worth investigating if you've a 1000 of them across a site but a single PC!

So I won't throw him out then Laughing

Kate Katieowl

and how recently did you have the gas hob fitted? That will make far more difference than the oven. For example an electric hob needs a 20 or 30A supply line fitted by an electrician, an electric oven will run off a three pin plug and turns itself off most of the time once it's up to temperature.

The other big offenders are refrigeration (particularly if you have old big freezers) and the real offender - laundry, ironing an tumble driers are phenomenally energy intensive.

Hob went in at Easter....this bill goes back to March, when DD and her BF were both still here too - i was hoping to see a big difference when they went, as the gadget count dropped by a big percentage.

Can't do much about the laundry...but I only iron for the B&B. I try not to tumble dry - but it's Wales -sometimes there's no option.

Could turning the fridge up to keep it at 'regulation' temperature be a culprit then?

Kate Nicky cigreen

we use immersion heater in the summer when the rayburn is let out.

the thermostat clearly isn't working - we found out by leaving it on too long and the water boiled out into the attic and dripped through the ceiling....... Shocked

we put the immersion heater on for a set time now - an hour is enough for a bath. we make hot water as we need it. its not the best solution, certainy not convenient, and we are in the middle of installing our new solution (could take some years). we also have a lecky oven, for the summer months.. but our bills are not as much as half of yours.

so i reckon.. that immersion is on too much. Katieowl
Assume the new element has its own shiny new thermostat? Might be a bit anal to get a thermometer to check the temp of your hot water to make sure it's working OK, but that's what I'd do Laughing Wink

No such thing as too anal to get the bill down!

Kate Marionb

My first thought was the immersion.... was it on all the time, day and night? If so that would definitely use a lot of electricity.

We dont have an immersion now but when we did in a previous house we only put it on for about an hour morning and evening if memory serves me correctly. But when the parkray was lit, that heated the water. Our hot water tank wasnt lagged in that house either Shocked Lorrainelovesplants

What does he use in the workshop?

John uses a welder quite frequently and it sucks a lot of electricity. We also have a big chest freezer, but its cheap to run as its nearly kept full. the freezer we have in a cupboard in the hall is open/shut/open/shut all day so its a liability... (kids and John nabbing lollies).
We dont have an immerser (thank God), but we cut our electric use when we got rid of the tumble drier. Gervase

The average immersion heater uses upwards of 2 kilowatts, which is pretty juicy. If it's running all the time - which is quite possible, because thermnostats are notoriously unreliable - you will be spending a fortune.
It might be worth getting a second stat which clamps to the hot water cylinder about half-way up which will cut out the heating rod once the temperature rise above, say, 55 degrees. They're not expensive, and are a useful 'belt and braces' measure with an immersion heater/thermostate set-up. RichardW

50C isn't hot enough as it won't kill off Legionella, you need 55C to do that.

Whilst that is technically correct there has been no proven domestic case of Legionella.

The B&B would be at more risk as you will have water standing for long periods of time in what are effectively dead legs of water.

Plus its suggested that you only need to raise the tank to that level once per week. Some controllers have that function built in. Dee

I've solar thermal for water. Not sure whether you get enough sunshine in Wales [ I live next to the North Sea..] but in my opinion its a no brainer for hot water in the summer. Sometimes when its been very cloudy I give the tank a 1hr. boost so my 100yr old mum gets a hot shower and warm wet room but otherwise its fine. I still have an old hot fill washing machine which helps and have banned tumbler dryers since my 40 yr. old came out of nappies...My worst sin is leaving the fridge/freezer door ajar and letting it melt and run.. and run.. Fixed it now Embarassed vegplot

Surprised I take your point about Legionella, but it's waaaaay to hot to stick your hand in, surely it's a scald risk?

I can see that super hot water is a bonus, cos' you can dilute it with cold and need a bit less of it?

Kate

The hotter the water the more quickly it cools down. Assuming you're happy with the temp and that the thermostat is working then fitting a timer may help. Check the tan's insulation and that of the surrounding pipework. vegplot

I've solar thermal for water.

Great suggestion and a cheap one to implement. chez

We've got an OWL. It's great - I became obsessive about it. vegplot

We've got an OWL. It's great - I became obsessive about it.

Harry Potter but without the feeding responsibilities. chez

Quite. You know me - I fear responsibility Smile marigold

Have you reviewed your tariff lately? Might be worth looking at that.

Also consider cutting down the amount of laundry you do, frequency of baths/showers etc and try the ideas suggested in Rosie's useful guide to cutting cooking costs.

Put the son's room on it's own circuit and install a meter. Katieowl

50C isn't hot enough as it won't kill off Legionella, you need 55C to do that.

Whilst that is technically correct there has been no proven domestic case of Legionella.

The B&B would be at more risk as you will have water standing for long periods of time in what are effectively dead legs of water.

Plus its suggested that you only need to raise the tank to that level once per week. Some controllers have that function built in.

Now that's a worrying possibility Shocked would sticking the water on the morning that they arrive heat it sufficiently to prevent a problem. That's what I usually do?

Kate Katieowl

Well OH has done battle with the tank today (lots of swearing) so the new heater is in. He's going to re-route the electrics to a pull switch in the kitchen so it's easier for me to switch on and off.

I guess I'll buy a monitor (having checked first with the library here to see if they loan!) and keep an eye on it. I'd really like something that actually tells me the washing machine costs £X to run and the Breadmaker Y. Does the Owl do that? Chez?

The tank is one of those old ones, which is insulated with sprayed on foam, and the cupboard is stuffed with spare bedding and textiles, so would an extra jacket for it make any difference?

In the workshop he used a variety of machines bench and floor standing, and has just installed three phase (which even sounds expensive Rolling Eyes ) obviously his stuff is on in fits and starts, so he's not usually running anything solidly and installed a woodburner for heat.

Kate chez

The OWL we have just clips on to the 'out' from your consumer unit and measures what's going through it - you have to run around and turn things on and off to work out what's drawing what.

If you have the kilowatts each machine takes and your tariff, can't you just have a spreadsheet that will work out what costs what, like I do for my incubator?

For example, I know that our tumble drier for two hours costs 40p.

Re the water tank insulation, in that position, I would think seriously about getting a new one with double insulation. If you got one with a spare coil, you could run solar-thermal through it at a later date with no bother, too. 12Bore

We've got an OWL.

Owl....rhea.....it's not a huge leap is it? Wink chez

*passes coat*

Laughing Leo

Not sure if this will be helpfull, but we've had massive electric bills too. After a considerable amount of investigating all the usual culprits, it turned out to be son's PC (18 year old).
Son plays endless games on the net, & has put together a 'water cooled' PC (sounds all wrong to me - electricronics & water!). Apparently the bit that uses the juice is the graphics card, which is the 'esssential' for game playing. Not helped by the fact it's left on all the time. Have to admit, was gobsmacked by just how much juice it uses - can't wait for him to depart for Uni (although that will cost me even more!
You might want to take a pince of salt with this - I don't know my a** from my elbow with computers! Katieowl

Well Leo, I think there may be something there to investigate. Son's isn't water cooled, but the fan is always running when I go in there, and he has the X box and TV and PC all rigged together. He has it on all night downloading films /games etc.

Me, I'm easy and cheap to entertain, I just take meself orf to bed with a secondhand paperback read by a low energy light bulb and lights off at eleven unless it's a corker!

Kate RichardW
Now that's a worrying possibility Shocked would sticking the water on the morning that they arrive heat it sufficiently to prevent a problem. That's what I usually do?

Kate

The advice seems to be to run off the standing water in little used dead legs. So I would heat it till hot (IE over 55c or what ever the temp is) & then run all the taps till fully hot.

Copper pipes & tanks also help (which is one reason hospitals get it with their steel pipes & tanks). gil

My prime suspect would be the immersion heater.

What colouritgreen said : I just have mine on for an hour or so when I need bathwater or have a lot of washing up. Otherwise half an hour for washing up, possibly plus some boiling water from the kettle.

Make sure you time how long it's on for - easy to forget that it's on - use a timer or alarm clock to remind yourself to switch it off.

I have baths / hot water less often since I found out how much electricity the immersion uses. welsh lamb

We have a timer on our immersion heater - it is on for 2 hours during the night (we are on economy 7 as all electric here) and has a booster button with 4 different time settings ranging from 15 to 120 mins so if you need more hot water during the day there is no need to remember to switch it off afterwards ( which I always forgot to do Embarassed )
Ours is a Grasslin ECOSAVE White Economy 7 Quartz Central Heater Timer - but there are lots of others on the market. Mutton

Our biggest single cost is electric shower - and that is a bottom end one, not a power shower. Between two of us it is usually 3 units per day for shower, possibly 4 in winter.

Assuming you've not got one and have all showers off tank. Just thought I'd mention it, in case. Katieowl

OK well we saw the charts on the paper electric bill - it came today! We are WAY OVER what we used same time last year over twice the usage so it HAS to be something that went wrong, we are pretty sure the old immersion was faulty. We also had an issue with the tumble drier during that period, as I popped it on one evening, and discovered it was still running the next morning Surprised - but that only happened the once, and I replaced it. (Easily done the as the 'laundry' is a shed round the back!)

Anyway immersion is replaced, new switch is now in the kitchen, where I'm in control of when and how long it's on for...I've signed up for 'energy smart' with British Gas, who will send me a free Energy Monitor (I'm with them anyway) the tariff should be the same, or slightly less, and I can compare data online, and be OCD about it! Confused

I am going to send off for one of those plug in monitors though, as I want to compare the cost of various gadgets.

Kate Shane

Bit late to this one, but I vote for the immersion heater, too. If you reckon it's set to 50°C but it's too hot to put your hand in, then it implies that the thermostat is shot. Sounds like it's permanently on, which would explain the rust - the water is heating up so much that steam is forcing its way out the top!

I think you'll notice a step decrease in consumption come the next bill.

With regards to insulation, if you put your hand on the outside of the insulation and it's hot, it would benefit from another layer.
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