Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption
 


       Downsizer Forum Index -> Shooting and Trapping for the Pot
Jam Lady

Hunting Season Starts in the USA

I know there is always much discussion on the right to bear arms, how gun-crazy people are in the USA, etc. I'm hoping this will remain a conversation, and people won't feel need to rant.

Where I live in New Jersey the bow hunting season for white-tail deer has opened. There will be a black powder, and a shotgun season (using a solid slug termed a sabot, I believe.) There's also a season for turkey, and I'm not positive but think there will be a season for black bear, about which I have reservations. New Jersey is too populous for rifle. Someone hunts on our land, gets two deer each season, and provides us with dressed out, wrapped venison. The most deer I've ever seen was the year when the herd built up to 25 / 30 individuals.

Anyhow, there's an interesting article and series of photographs in today's New York Times on-line that I thought might be of interest to folks.

Photos: http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2010/09/25/us/20100926-HUNTING.html

Article: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/26/us/26huntintro.html?hp

I don't hunt, but have cooked not only venison but also woodchuck (aka groundhog or whistle pig) and raccoon.

As I said, I thought this might be interesting to people, for a view of hunting here in the USA. Yes?
Brownbear

What I find particularly interesting is that idea that New Jersey is too small for rifles to be used - different attitudes I suppose. In the UK, no stalker would dream or releasing a shot without having a visible solid backstop.
Jam Lady

Not too small, Brownbear, too populous. Small state, large population. Land area - close to smallest, no. 46 in size - 7,417.34 square miles. Population as of the year 2009 - 8,707,739.

Here's a link - http://www.co.hunterdon.nj.us/hunting/instruct.htm - to the regulations in Hunterdon County, where I live.
Brownbear

Personally, I think it's very good for youngsters to learn to hunt their own food, and just to learn to shoot. Many children, especially boys, can become morbidly obsessed with firearms unless they learn to use them properly; equally well, there's no better way to learn to respect the meat you eat than to learn to shoot, to go out and kill an animal, prepare its carcase, cook and eat it.

We as a species for the most part, think about the morals of killing far too little. Too urban and urbane for our own good - the worst horrors of industrial farming are only possible because people close their minds to the whole issue of killing, and reach for the cellophane pack of chicken without a thought.
boisdevie1

Agree with BB. People seem very happy to have somebody else do the killing and butchering of their meat and some are shocked that I happily despath chickens and rab.bits. Seems a bit morally deficient - I eat meat and have the courage to kill it myself. And I do eat pork, lamb and beef and would be happy to kill that as well.
Slim

One of the things I've noticed most when discussing American hunting here is the difference between American & British attitudes towards bow hunting.

Here in VT we have a rifle season that will be starting up in November, and our bear season has already begun.

(Hi Jam Lady! I'll try to refrain from making fun of 'the dirty jerz' WinkLaughing)
Jamanda

What do you hunt bears with then if not rifles? Surely not bow and arrows?
Jam Lady

Nah, Slim, just use our "official" name - New Jersey is the Garden State.
Slim

Jamanda wrote:
What do you hunt bears with then if not rifles? Surely not bow and arrows?


Don't know the rules down in Jersey, up here it's rifles

Since the vast majority of people up here are out hunting deer, that's what we're typically referring to when we say rifle season. It differentiates from muzzle-loader and bow season.

If you're curious about the different permitted hunting seasons up here, the calendar is available here with all the more obscure hunting seasons (grey squirrel, bobcat, muskrat, crow, raccoon, etc)

I didn't pay attention when it was announced, but the state biologists announce every summer how many moose permits will be lotteried off and how long the season will go.
Slim

Jamanda wrote:
What do you hunt bears with then if not rifles? Surely not bow and arrows?


Some folks do actually take bear with bow & arrow. Looking through the states fish & game department website, I see that a bear weighing over 400 pounds was taken in 2003.

I remember when someone in my 5th grade class got his first bear with a bow, don't remember how big it was.
Jam Lady

Here is the NJDEP information concerning the black bear hunting season in 2010:

The 2010 black bear hunting season is December 6-11. Anyone wishing to participate in the season must have completed a bear training seminar (see Bear Hunter Education Seminar Information) and possess a Black Bear Hunting Area Permit. The black bear permit application period is October 1 - 30.

There are four bear hunting zones in New Jersey and hunters will be restricted to hunt only in the zone for which they possess a permit. Hunters will be limited to purchasing one black bear hunting permit, and the bag limit is one black bear per hunter.

Information about the season can be found on page 60 in the 2010 Hunting Digest. http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/dighnt10.htm Please visit the page of Frequently Asked Questions for further information regarding the bear season. After Harvesting a Bear — Mandatory Bear Check Requirement

Properly licensed hunters who harvest a black bear shall immediately complete and affix to the bear the "Black Bear Transportation Tag" from their Black Bear Hunting Permit. Information included on the black bear transportation tag shall include: the hunter’s name, address, current firearm license number; date and time of kill; nearest road, county and municipality of kill; and the sex of the black bear.

Black Bear Hunt Zones Map and Descriptions http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/bearzonemap.htm

Comprehensive Black Bear Management Policy http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/bearpolicy10.htm

Bear Facts for New Jersey
http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/bearfacts.htm
Slim

Wouldn't really feel comfortable taking a bear myself.
Jam Lady

Jamanda, here's the nitty-gritty on New Jersey's bear hunt:

Black Bear Hunting Season: Dec. 6–11, 2010

Hunting Hours: Legal hunting hours for black bear shall be 1⁄2 hour before sunrise to 1⁄2 hour after sunset.

Bag Limit: Only one bear of either sex and any age may be taken per properly licensed hunter. It is unlawful to take or attempt to take or continue to hunt for more than the number of black bear permitted.

Special permit requirement: All black bear hunters must have a current and valid firearm hunting license and a special Black Bear Hunting Area Permit issued by Fish and Wildlife. See Black Bear Hunting Areas, below; see also Black Bear Hunting Permits, page 10. Hunters are limited to purchasing one black bear hunting permit. The bag limit remains at one black bear per hunter.

Game Care: It is critical to remove the hide and cool the bear immediately after checking the bear. Cooling a bear with ice from inside the body cavity is inadequate to prevent the meat from spoiling. If the hide remains on overnight, the meat may be unsuitable for consumption.

Mandatory Bear Hunter Seminar:
All successful permit applicants must successfully complete a bear hunting seminar conducted by Fish and Wildlife. Hunters who completed a seminar in past years need not attend a seminar again. The seminar dates, locations and times will be posted on Fish and Wildlife’s Web site, our Permit Hotline and also will be sent to outdoor writers for newspaper publication.

Youth Bear Hunters: Youth hunters (aged 10 through 13 on or before Dec. 6, 2010), with a valid hunting license must also possess a black bear hunting permit. Youth hunters must be under the direct supervision of a properly licensed adult (21 years of age or older) while bear hunting. The adult must also possess a black bear hunting permit. Direct supervision means the youth hunter and the supervising adult are together at the same location. The youth hunter may not hunt independently of the adult.

Firearms and Ammunition Legal For Bear Hunting

Shotgun: not smaller than 20 gauge nor larger than 10 gauge with rifled slugs. Lead, lead alloy or copper rifled slug or sabot slug. Buckshot is prohibited.

Muzzleloader Rifle: single-barrel, single shot rifles not less than .44 caliber.

Flintlock, percussion and in-line ignitions. Double barrel muzzleloaders prohibited. Persons hunting with muzzleloader rifle must also possess a current and valid rifle hunting permit.

Baiting: No person shall attempt to take or kill a black bear or have in their possession or control any firearm, or other weapon of any kind, while elevated in a standing tree or in a structure of any kind within 300 feet of a baited area. On national wildlife refuges and at the Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area, the distribution of bait and/or hunting over bait is prohibited. Hunters should also check with the landowner or administrative agency before placing bait on any hunting area.
Brownbear

Just for information, a 'sabot' is a sort of case in which a projectile narrower than the bore of the weapon is held, and which falls away after the projectile has exited the barrel. For example, one might fire a .224" projectile from a .308" rifle by putting the .224" in a sabot and then loading the whole into a .308 Win cartridge.

The same principle is used to fire an anti-tank 'kinetic penetrator' from a large-bore artillery piece or tank gun. On the far right of the image below, the sabot segments can be seen falling away from an anti-tank munition, with the kinetic dart visible between the sabot parts:

matt_hooks

So a .44 plus calibre muzzle loading rifle, or up to 10 bore rifled slug or rifled sabot are considered "safe" whereas a rifle isn't as the state is "too populous" ?

In the UK, each area of land is assessed on its merits for the use of rifles. Any UK hunter worth their salt will consider the backstop before even considering levelling a rifle at quarry.

It's illegal to take deer with a shotgun under most circumstances, and it is illegal under any circumstances to take any game with bow and arrow, including crossbows.

I'm not sure about the law regarding muzzle loaders/black powder, though I would imagine you would have trouble getting the condition on the licence to use one as a hunting tool. There's nothing specific in any of the game acts that prevent muzzle loaders being used, as long as they meet the energy/velocity/calibre/mass requirements of the various acts.
Brownbear

matt_hooks wrote:
There's nothing specific in any of the game acts that prevent muzzle loaders being used, as long as they meet the energy/velocity/calibre/mass requirements of the various acts.


I think it would be lawful to use obsolete firearms, just as it would be legal to perform dental surgery without anaesthetic and using a gimlet. Why anyone would choose to do so when there is a better alternative more readily to hand is another matter entirely.
matt_hooks

Brownbear wrote:
matt_hooks wrote:
There's nothing specific in any of the game acts that prevent muzzle loaders being used, as long as they meet the energy/velocity/calibre/mass requirements of the various acts.


I think it would be lawful to use obsolete firearms, just as it would be legal to perform dental surgery without anaesthetic and using a gimlet. Why anyone would choose to do so when there is a better alternative more readily to hand is another matter entirely.


Agreed BB, which is why I said it's unlikely that you would get a condition on the FAC for use on game.
Brownbear

I was thinking more of why Americans - particularly given their national enthusiasm for modernity and new inventions - would cling to the use of such instruments. Maybe there's some sort of Grizzly Adams/Davy Crockett thing going on.
Jam Lady

I don't hunt, so cannot speak from personal experience. Issue with rifle is, I believe, the carry distance of bullet compared to shotgun shell. Most deer hunting in NJ is from tree stand so hunter is aiming downward. But accidents do happen.

Black powder - the concept of traditional techniques. If you look at the NY Times pictures there's a fellow who not only made darts for an atlatl, he apparently chipped flint points for the darts. Now that's traditional!

People are interested in reenactment in different periods - Revolutionary War, the War Between the States.

If DS is the encouragement of smallholding, raising our own food, making our own preserves and pickles, spinning and weaving - why should hunters only use the most modern techniques? What's more enjoyable - fly fishing or going out with a powerful boat, fish-finding sonar, and other more "advanced" techniques?

Chacun a son gout.
matt_hooks

I guess it's down to wanting to ensure the fastest, most humane death possible for the prey animal Jam Lady.

As a hunter, my goals, in order of importance, are firstly safety for me and other people, secondly the quickest, most humane possible death and third meat quality. I would not consider using an older, more outdated method if that increased the risk of injuring the animal, or increased the amount of time to death and hence caused the animal to suffer. I want to use the best tools at my disposal to ensure the animal suffers as little as possible.

A black powder rifle is not likely to be as accurate at range as a modern rifle, and a bow and arrow is certainly likely to cause the animal to suffer, even if the shot is well placed!

It's horses for courses, but for me the method is less important in the enjoyment than the hunt itself.

As far as fishing goes, the fish doesn't suffer any more if you catch it on a fly or with a modern net and fish finding sonar, so the comparison doesn't really stand!
Jam Lady

That's it, matt_hooks. It's sneaking up on a deer to get close enough for a safe, quick kill. The man who still-hunts (shotgun) on our property stays out there until I think he must have frozen solid, waiting until a deer is close enough for a clean kill. He's here again, again, again, and again until things are right for a good, clean kill.

A rifle might even encourage someone to take a long shot - after all, it's a rifle - where someone using black powder or bow should of necessity understand the limits of his weapon.

There are many vehement arguments pro and con about gun vs hunting bow. If you've ever seen a compound hunting bow and the quarrels used, it sure looks to me a quickly lethal method - when used by someone who understands what he's doing.

Surely the same is applicable to a rifle?

Around here at this time of year I see life-size plastic deer set up in people's backyards (with a back stop) as they sharpen their bow technique in advance of opening day.

As with anything - it is the person using the - gun, bow, camera, knitting needles - that is responsible for a great, good, mediocre, or poor outcome.

BTW, local hunters all tell me that they find wild turkey a wilier, more challenging critter to hunt than white-tail deer.
matt_hooks

I have used all sorts of bows, crossbows, modern compound and recurve bows right through to the oldest types of bow, longbows and some pretty nifty composite horn bows. Yes, they are very powerful, and deadly accurate in the right hands, but they just don't have the energy to impart that a modern bullet does.

A modern bullet kills quickly and painlessly by causing massive tissue trauma along the track it takes through the tissue. An arrow or bolt from a bow, on the other hand, does not impart as much energy. The bullet causes massive blood loss and rapid unconsciousness and death, whereas a bow shot, even a well placed one, is likely to lead to slow blood loss and a slow death.
sgt.colon

Slim wrote:
Wouldn't really feel comfortable taking a bear myself.
salute

Just going back to a bit earlier in the thread. What do they do with the bears they kill?
Brownbear

sgt.colon wrote:
What do they do with the bears they kill?


If they're good fellows they eat them; if they're turds they just nail the head to their living room wall and bin the rest.
sgt.colon

Brownbear wrote:
sgt.colon wrote:
What do they do with the bears they kill?


If they're good fellows they eat them; if they're turds they just nail the head to their living room wall and bin the rest.


Wow! I didn't even know people ate bear. Wouldn't be for me but at least they are not just killing them for killings sake.
Katieowl

Slim wrote:
Wouldn't really feel comfortable taking a bear myself.


What you need is a Zucchini...

http://forum.downsizer.net/viewtopic.php?t=55961&highlight=

Kate
Slim

Brownbear wrote:
sgt.colon wrote:
What do they do with the bears they kill?


If they're good fellows they eat them; if they're turds they just nail the head to their living room wall and bin the rest.


Exactly. I've had bear stew - robust & spicy
dpack

when i was in n.j. i was offered some firearms that would have most unsuitable for bear ,maybe the ouzi would have worked at close range but the meat would have been messy Laughing
Bodger

You'll find that hunting in the US is extremely well policed. The American hunting fraternity take their hunting extremely seriously.
Muzzle loading rifles over in the states are extremely acurate and effective and are not the Muzzle loaders of the Napoleonic Wars. They are modern and extremely effective bits of kit.
I wont go into the fors and againsts of bow hunting, because its been done to death time and time again.

It doesn't seem like three years ago but this was one of the most memorable days of my life.

http://forum.downsizer.net/viewtopic.php?t=27483&highlight=deer
dpack

im puzzled by squirel season ,in the uk the grey (yankie)ones are classed as pest
they are tastiest after the hazelnut season but fair game all year

are they not a problem in the land of their ancestors ?
Bodger

There are numerous species of squirrels over in the US and even more predators queuing up to eat them.
Jam Lady

Squirrel is a regionally popular game animal. Classic Kentucky burgoo, for example, should be made with squirrel. Of late there are warnings against eating the brains. My local gray squirrels are eaten by owls, hawks, coyotes, pretty much whatever catches them. But not - at least around here - by people.

Woodchuck and raccoon are generally shot as vermin. I have cooked both, but only once or twice.

And dpack, it's yankee, not yankie. Your innovative spelling makes me think of hankie (handkerchief) and I just know that's not what you intended. Of course there's Thomas Jefferson - "I have nothing but contempt for a man who can only spell a word one way." So who am I to say you're wrong. Go for it, any way you like.

Bear is eaten. I've never had it but understand that the paws are considered a delicacy. Of course the skin will be tanned for a rug. Expensive.

Deer / venison is very popular. I love chili made with ground venison, or back strap, seared in a hot cast iron frying pan, then coated with first with mustard, then bread crumbs and quickly finished in a hot oven. Serve with chestnut puree (I loathe peeling them, but the results are worth it), braised cabbage, and a Beaujolais nouveau.

Game birds - various ducks, ruffed grouse, quail. Pheasant is really put-and-take, cage reared birds that practically must be shooed to fly, so they may be shot. Wild turkey, wily game.

Game may not be sold. So for all the free-range, organic, locavore venison running around Hunterdon County, the only venison in the stores is ranched, often imported from New Zealand. Daft.

So yes, around here there's lots of game, lots of hunters.
Jam Lady

Cooking with venison

Speaking of venison recipes - years and years ago I got a call from a friend. He and his two hunting buddies had gotten two deer. Did I want to come and help dress them out? They had, of course, been field dressed.

So there I was on a cold winter evening, in a garage with three men, two dead deer, and a bottle of Scotch. They're cutting, I'm wrapping, we're chatting, and I said, "You know, I've always wanted to do a saddle of venison." Explained what it was, and dang if they're didn't give me one.

Even managed to come up with a larding needle, and proper kidney fat to lard and bard it.

I've made venison pate.

They smoked a haunch, somewhat too much so it was a little dried out. So I diced it fine, sauteed mushrooms and shallots, made a white sauce, and rolled it in crepes. Yummy!
Jam Lady

Of course, maybe we don't need a gun. We're tough in New Jersey, even our moggies -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5067912.stm
dpack

greys are very tasty

spelling was never a strong point for me

mr jefrson was a sound geezer with histry in urop as well as in merica
yummersetter

some of us get hungry just reading, Jam Lady Smile
Slim

Squirrel is still eaten quite regularly by many Vermonters still. Well many of the old Vermont families, not so much the flatlanders.

I think it's fairly common for North American mammals to be considered more aggressive & invasive when introduced to Europe. I remember when I lived in Norway, hearing that Canadian beavers had been imported to revive the ailing numbers of the original population and they quickly forced them out.
OP

Brownbear wrote:
Just for information, a 'sabot' is a sort of case in which a projectile narrower than the bore of the weapon is held, and which falls away after the projectile has exited the barrel. For example, one might fire a .224" projectile from a .308" rifle by putting the .224" in a sabot and then loading the whole into a .308 Win cartridge.

The same principle is used to fire an anti-tank 'kinetic penetrator' from a large-bore artillery piece or tank gun. On the far right of the image below, the sabot segments can be seen falling away from an anti-tank munition, with the kinetic dart visible between the sabot parts:


Isn't hunting bears in a tank a bit un-sporting?
sgt.colon

Slim wrote:
I think it's fairly common for North American's to be considered more aggressive & invasive when introduced to Europe.


I've heard that's the case wherever they are. Wink
Brownbear

sgt.colon wrote:
Slim wrote:
I think it's fairly common for North American's to be considered more aggressive & invasive when introduced to Europe.


I've heard that's the case wherever they are. Wink


But they bring Freedom, Democracy and Hamburgers. It's got to be worth the inconvenience for Freedom, Democracy and Hamburgers.
sgt.colon

Brownbear wrote:
sgt.colon wrote:
Slim wrote:
I think it's fairly common for North American's to be considered more aggressive & invasive when introduced to Europe.


I've heard that's the case wherever they are. Wink


But they bring Freedom, Democracy and Hamburgers. It's got to be worth the inconvenience for Freedom, Democracy and Hamburgers.


Well as long as they bring freedom fries with those hamburgers, then all is well.
Slim

sgt.colon wrote:
Slim wrote:
I think it's fairly common for North American's to be considered more aggressive & invasive when introduced to Europe.


I've heard that's the case wherever they are.


Ah yes, but we can't take all that credit, we learned from the original imperialists Wink
Brownbear

Slim wrote:

Ah yes, but we can't take all that credit, we learned from the original imperialists Wink


You ARE the original imperialists. So many of the people with get-up-and-go left Britain for the colonies that the inferior genetic material that remained now bimbles about the world buying Mercedes for dictators, whining about human rights for the scum of the earth, and cuddling foxes. The descendants of British Imperialists who formed the USA get on with the manly stuff of bombing foreigners and getting rich.
matt_hooks

Brownbear wrote:
Slim wrote:

Ah yes, but we can't take all that credit, we learned from the original imperialists Wink
the inferior genetic material that remained


Present company excepted of course! Wink
       Downsizer Forum Index -> Shooting and Trapping for the Pot
Page 1 of 1
Home Home Home Home Home