| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| Mrs Baggins |
I have nasty little stinging buzz monster beesWe did our second inspection of our newly hived swarm on Sun - only to find more than 10 queen cells. There were no queen cells or cups when we had carried out our previous inspection a week ago on Sunday and to our surprise, we even had one capped queen cell which had been built and capped within 7 days. 
Being a bit panicked and not knowing quite what to do, we closed up the hive and came to look thru our notes and decide on a plan of action. On the basis of what we had seen we decided to artificially swarm and did this yesterday.
So here we are: a mere 19 days since we collected our swarm, we possibly have 2 colonies! The new colony is tucked up in garden store until next Monday - we are going down to spritz some water in there in a minute - and pray that they are raising a nice new virgin queen from the two plump queen cells we left them with and we guess that is all goes well she should fly out on her mating flight about Jun 18. I admit to feeling nervous and really hope they survive... it feels so wrong to shut them in a hive for a whole week...  They have ventilation, syrup and water. I hope they don't all croak it!
Please wish us luck! Any possy bee survival vibes greatly appreciated! 
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| Tavascarow |
Glad your bees have made you see sense.
You will have to buy more sugar & you probably wont get any honey this year but taking two hives through the winter is a whole lot more reasuring than just one. If the new queen fails to mate you can always reunite them back to the original colony. 
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| Ixy |
woah, i know nothing about bees - sounds complicated- and great!
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| Mrs Baggins |
Tav - I was fully intending on following your advice but the bees decided that July was too long a wait! There is tons of brood of all stages on all 11 frames - they had no space left! Have found the queen twice now and could have done a jig for joy when I spied her. (Am queen spotting expert now... ) Had (very luckily) bought a queen trap the day before I found the queen cells. Fate was smiling on me that day...
Ixy - It is complicated but simple IYKWIM?? It's the kind of thing that once you have done it a while and found your own style - it is 2nd nature. I am not there yet and find it all very daunting... but in a fun way...
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| Mrs Baggins |
Ixy - is that a punk or a native AMerican goat in your profile pic?
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| Jamanda |
Sounds good! I want the weather to warm up again so I can have another delve into my brood box, but as she's started laying in the super I put on I think they are probably OK for now. | ||
| Ixy |
punk. definately.
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| Mrs Baggins |
Checked my new colony last night and there are still signs of life. I am really worrying that I have done summat wrong and they will suffocate or starve... or just have a vitamin D deficiency due to the lack of sun...
I so want this to work... wouldn't it be cool if you could witness the virgin queen's mating flight? Is that even possible? I have been dreaming of bees lately... can you tell?? 
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| Ginkotree |
what is it about these bees that makes us all obsessed...
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| Mrs Baggins |
It's cos they are so COOL!
Well, today is the day we take our new colony out of storage in the stables and put it in its rightful place in the apiary. They have done really well surviving all week long and they have made quite a din. Hope that is a good sign...
Thing is it is chucking it down today and the kids will NOT go down for their nap. Always puts a spanner in the work when bees are concerned...
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| Mrs Baggins |
Scratch the bee plans. It's gonna storm. Typical. | ||
| Mrs Baggins |
We took advantage of a break in the weather and put our 2nd hive in the apiary. It was such a palaver that we never got the chance to check insode, but when we took the tape off the entrance block and hundreds of bees spilled out - we both got a bit of a surprise!
Two minutes later and they had brought out their dead and thrown them out onto the slabs. Such tidy little creatures! I like tidy!
Just hope the have been working hard on raising a nice new virgin queen. ANd that she mates. ANd that we really do have a second hive... And to think I was worried about never getting started with bees!
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| goosey |
Great stuff!
Hope She is ok , keep watching, you may see her on her mating flight, woudn't that be cool.
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| Mrs Baggins |
Okay. Have just had an interesting hive inspection. We were looking thru the hive of bee that we artificially swarmed - ie the one with the original swarm in and about half way thru the frames they went absolutely ballistic.
It seemed like every bee in the hive piled out at once and started stinging us. Our suits are covered in stings and MrB got stung 15+ times thru his beesuit and leather gloves. We finished up quickly and calmly and closed up the hive. We were both absolutely covered in bees head to toe. There were still bees dive-bombing us and we walked all the way across the field (ca 100m) and stood quietly at the boundary for about 20 mins before they left us alone. We waited a while but as we walked back across the field and as we got about 20m away from the apiary (ie 30m away from the actual hive) they came back out and had another go at us. Based on the fact that they are persistently producing a lot of queen cells, we don't know the age of the queen and the fact that they are such malicious little bastards, I am inclined to re-queen. Any suggestions on anything we did blatantly wrong - please, please tell us! Any suggestions on where to source a nice Queen - please point us in the right direction! Any suggestions on how to get my nerve back after staring death in the face - I'm all ears!
PS: Out of the whole escapade I got stung a total of ZERO times. MrB thinks I have trained them and the geese to hate him.
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| richh |
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| goosey |
Could they bee Italian race? Nice Black British Bees are better behaved. Yes re queen. I recommend Wisborough Green. www.wgbka.org.uk Roger Patterson, if you don't have anyone good near you.for advice. Blimey though, poor old you and Mr B. Well done for keeping your cool. |
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| Mrs Baggins |
Thanks guys. I will re-queen and allow MrB the pleasure of squashing the nasty existing queen to death. He will like that.
Just got to find the nasty bee-atch first. *gulp* Then wait 6 weeks for her evil progeny to be bred out. Thx goosey - I will call them in the morning and see if they can help us out. I am no bee ID expert, but I had the feeling that these were British Blacks. Either way, I want to do my bit for our indigenous bees and want a nice BB. Maisemore do them for £31 delivered. After tonight, that is a BARGAIN!
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| Tavascarow |
Was there brood & eggs in the hive?
There bad temper could be caused by not having a queen. Or by the queen becoming injured during an inspection. If they are queenless then they will be short tempered. Seems strange to me that they where so placid a week ago & now attacking. Was Mr B attacked more than you or just not so well protected? (Aftershave, deodorant?) Sometimes it can just be immenant thunder storms. To you it might be a balmy sunny afternoon but the bees can sense inpending lightning & thunder & resent having their home opened to the elements. I don't think you will need to requeen unless your mentor has given you a bad tempered queen (Which I doubt)(or if they are queenless), most temper issues occur when new queens are raised from crosses to bad tempered drones so I suspect that something has happened that you didn't notice or the bees where getting irate but in your enthusiasm you missed the signs & carried on working. One of my hives is a little moody, as soon as they tell me they have had enough I shut them up & walk away. Mind in this time with so many bees being rustled having a bad tempered hive isn't a bad thing IMO. Sorry to hear this & hope it hasn't put either of you off. |
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| goosey |
It was a bit thundery over the weekend, down here in the south east. It definately felt 'heavy' on Monday
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| Mrs Baggins |
Thx for your replies.
Tav - It had been thundery the day before and we were 2 days overdue inspection due to weather which was worrying us as they had been building so many queen cells. I suspect (and have done for a while) that the queen's pheromones are dropping and they are planning to replace her. I'd also like to know her age... The last few inspections have been increasingly grumpy. They have been really angry since we split them. There is brood of all stages in the hive and eggs were observed. MrB was the one going thru the frames (his first time - up til now that has been my job as I had the lessons and am therefore the 'expert' between us) We never wear any smelly stuff on bee days. We both have sheriff bee suits and MrB's gloves are the leather gauntlets from Sheriff. When they turned on us - it was like a switch had been flicked. We had just commented on how calm they were being. Then they all piled out and we thought we were perhaps getting close to the queen. We just quietly put the hive back together and walked away but it was already too late. They wanted us dead. I've washed our bee suits 'cos they were absolutely covered in stings. I have to admit that if this had been my first experience of opening a hive - I probably wouldn't have continued into keeping bees. However I have them now and I know it can be different so it hasn't put us off. But MrB and I are planning to have a celebratory squashing ceremony for the nasty so-and-so when we replace her. I am just wondering if there s anyone in my local group who might help us do that 'co it doesn't appear to be a job for a beginner and I don't have a butler cage. Not hopeful on that count as there is not much of that type of support on offer for beginners in this neck of the woods. |
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| Jamanda |
I'm a bit confused here. Is this hive the one from the swarm you found or the second one you made with an artificial swarm? | ||
| Mrs Baggins |
It's the swarm I was given. It was collected from a garden in a nearby village with no idea of its origins. | ||
| ksia |
Hmmm .... I was looking forward to getting my first hives and bees .... | ||
| Jamanda |
Well, it is recommended by some that you don't get random swarms with no idea of their origins, especially as a newbie.
I knew my bees were gentle before I got them as I had visited them in the local association apiary many times before they were ready to bring home. This is NOT a normal experience of bee keeping. I know I've not been at it long, but I've only got stung once and that was by a bee that had got blown into my curly hair and got stuck. I have never had a bee, either my own or at the apiary even try to sting me when I've actually been bee wrangling. |
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| ksia |
That's reassuring J. Ta. | ||
| Tavascarow |
I keep a couple of heavy canvas cloths just slightly larger than the top of a box with a bit of 1x1 pinned each end.
Use them to cover the frames not being worked on & if they suddenly get narky it's easy to pull one over the hive without doing damage & retreat, then when you & the bees have calmed down you can go back & either resume or at least put back together. Nothing worse than being dive bombed by angry bees & trying to reasemble the hive in a hurry I remember such an instant in my earlier days & dropping a frame of bees in my haste making the bees even angrier. Glad you haven't been put off. You & Mr B will laugh about it when you harvest your first combs.
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| goosey |
That is a good tip about the canvas Tav.
Two weeks ago, at the teaching apiary, when we were taking turns to go thru frames, someone got stung because he inadvertanty moved his hand quickly over the open hive. A few bees came out at him, following his hand. Then he did it again and they stung him. I think it's hard sometimes to recognise what we do and control it. What do you all think about protection? I was surprised to read that stings went through quality gear. I had thought I would just use a hat/veil, but after this, I don't know so much...! I have been fortunate to only have been around benign colonies at my assoc. |
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| jocorless |
I was stung 3 times over the weekend - Not by my own bee's but by my friends - They really weren't happy - I think there were a number of reasons for it
1) Second inspection of the day - Checking for Queen cells - they really didn't like that 2) Not enough smoke - He had problems getting the smoker going 3) They are a little temperamental - They are from a nuc I raised last year - I don't think the queen is a particularly good one - she's not expanded at the rate I would have expected her too - I think we need to re-queen as soon as possible - She was raised in May just before the bad weather really got going from the largest and best queen cell we found but has produced quite temperamental bee's - not overly narky but you can't judge their mood very easily and they turn. The parent colony was lovely and gentle with a very prolific queen - Although I sadly lost them over the winter due to my own stupidity I think The bee's I have now I think are carnolian - quite yellow compared to the last lot I had and are also very gentle, prolific and placid - I may pick up some Apidea's and do some queen raising with them It does upset you though and shake your confidence - I've got to the point where I'm going to have to consider leather gloves because I really can't cope with the way my hands swell every time I get stung on them - they blow up like balloons especially if I'm stung around the thumb area - I'm alright everywhere else its just my hands - the sting on my arm had no effect |
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| goosey |
Yes I realise now I have a lot to learn. It's one thing to recognise chalk brood etc etc but the experience that Tav has, in handling them, obviously only comes with time.
I hate trying to do things with leather gloves, but I have a ring I can't get off now, and if I got stung like you on the hand, it would be very painful I expect. I probably am complacent because I was only stung once years ago, gardening. I think when I get my own bees I had better get the full outfit. It is good here, to read what we all have learnt from each other. |
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| Mrs Baggins |
That is what I kept saying but everyone told me to get a swarm. I wanted a nuc but they were in such short supply and no-one would come with me to have a look at them. In the end I gave up on the idea 'cos I didn't have the confidence or experience to assess the stock I was buying and I couldn't afford to spend so much money on smth that could turn out to be awful. So that led me back to a package or a swarm. I was offered a swarm and took it. I wanted to re-queen straight away but stupidly allowed myself to be put off by the advice [read gasps of shock] from the beekeepers I spoke to. I should just have gone with my own instincts. None of those ppl were there when it all turned nasty. I admit to loving bee-keeping and this won't put me off 'cos I know it is rare. I just have to learn on the job as no-one from my interactions in my local club or classes want to help. I'll just keep on turning to Jurgen Tautz and Ted Hooper methinks. ETA: and you guys. I have had loads of great advice from here. Thanks everyone. Also - Has anyone got any ideas on what I could put on MrB's arms to soothe them? They are not too puffy 'cos I gave his some piriton and homeopathy right away, but his arms are still a mess... |
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| goosey |
I would have done the same thing Mrs B, and gone for the swarm. I know how keen you were to get your own bees.
Yup, trust your instinct. Easier said than done sometimes, though, isn't it. |
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| Mrs Baggins |
Yeah goosey - will certainly trust my own instinct in future but the main piece of advice I've been given by the bee-keepers I have met is that I know nothing and should only ever do what I am told.
Just have to strike a balance between weighing things up between what am told and what I feel. Easier said than done when your are a beginner. |
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| goosey |
Maybe you are a 'natural' for it, and have a feel for them which book learning doesn't give.
Sounds like your neck of the woods is a black hole beekeeping-wise ,when you get a bit more experience, all the newbies will be ringing you for advice 
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| Mrs Baggins |
Yeah goosey - and I will help them out! Bees are in enough dire straits without new beekeepers being put off.
I brought up the complete lack of support for new beekeepers at my last meeting saying that I could completely understand why so many newbies give up in the first year and asked what we could do to welcome newbies into the fold and help them get started. They told me to stand for the committee at the next AGM. I told my tutor the same and that I really felt isolated as a beginner. He shrugged his shoulders and told me that being on my own wasn't a bad thing and that if I didn't like the clubs available - I should set up my own. Both missing the point methinks. Shame though, 'cos beekeeping is an art as far as I can see and arts should be handed down from master to apprentice. |
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| Mrs Baggins |
I have just been offered a queen. Nice and gentle by all accounts. Hopefully have her next week-ish.
Time to hit the books again so I don't get her killed when I introduce her to the hive... |
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| TheGrange |
without meaning to be pedantic honey? |
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| Mrs Baggins |
LOL Grange. Tried it.
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| Ginkotree |
I was advised to get some Anthisan to have handy now the hive is at the farm, apparently it is very good,
lavender is a soothing oil.. I have to say that I admire your handling off the whole situation, it does seem like you have a natural instinct for bee keeping,keeping your heads and staying cool at a time like that is amazing.Quick learning Curve! |
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| Sally |
Wow Mrs. B. Hope Mr. B's feeling better!
We are so far behind you ...... but hopefully it won't be long now. Good luck with your new queen. |
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| Mrs Baggins |
Hi Sally! It won;t be long for you now! MrB is ok thx. Just felt a bit goose-bumpy all day and his arms are a mess to look at, but they are getting better.
Got lots of hope pinned on the guy who said he might have a queen for us. Am really nervous about introducing her to the hive. I need to get a Butler cage and put a plan together on how to do it.
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| Tavascarow |
Wonder if her daughter will be like her mum?
This is the reason I like the look of the top bar hives (Still only reading about them & not using any yet) as you are only ever exposing one bar at a time & not splitting a hive by moving boxes off the top first before you start an inspection. The way we keep bees isn't the most natural & as it seems that the hardier bees seem to be the smaller narkier ones maybe we should be modifying our methods & not our bees. (Speaking generally not personally to you MrsB).
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| goosey |
Yes Tav
I am in the process of making my own TBH at the mo, with a lot of advice woodwork - wise. I originally became interested for money reasons, but the more I found out, the more I decided it would suit me and the bees better. So I go regularly go to the club to try and learn Best Practice in national hives, there are really good folk there. I need to be sure on the principles of how the colonies live before I get my bees. The honey looks to be trickier to extract from TBH comb, but it's only for us, so no prob. Also, I think as more ppl use them in Britain, better ways will evolve. We are told 2 colonies are better than 1, to get thru winter, so maybe I will be able to afford a national then, and compare the different hives. However, I am terribly excited about my first TBH, I'm trying to scrounge a bit of 'old' comb to tempt any passing swarm! Hopefully they will be nice girls, not the type which Mrs B have. Keep you posted. |
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| Mrs Baggins |
I wanted very much to start with TBHs for the reasons Tav stated. I eventually decided to start with Nationals to at least start with BS hives so I could buy nucs if I wanted to and get advice form other bee-keepers 'cos no-one else keeps TBHs.
My plan was to start with 2 Nationals (which I have done) and make two 48" TBHs (which I have yet to do). That way I will have extra hives if I need to split a colony again or catch a swarm and whichever method of bee-keeping I prefer - I will probably stick with. Goosey - It is common for a colony to supercede its Queen after they have swarmed. That alone can make them narky and mine are showing strong signs of wanting to do just that. Also we have loads of OSR here and it has just gone over and we'd just had a thunderstorm the previous day... We were just unlucky with that inspection and bees are usually okay. Please don't let it put you off. If I was given another swarm now, I'd re-queen it without hesitation. It's all very well for more experienced bee-keepers to gasp at the notion - but for new bee-keepers it is by far the most sensible thing to do. Tav - I am going to give the new queen in colony 2 a chance. I suspect she will be okay until she is pushing an a bit and there is obvious discord in the hive. If she raises a colony that is problematic - I will re-queen her too. |
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| Jamanda |
The one thing that was drummed in on my course that if you ask three beekeepers the same question you'll get six contradictory answers. ie - there is no one "right" way of doing anything - but lots of options some of which will work for you, and some which won't. We were never told this is the way to do it, but this is a way of doing it, and usually a different way too. |
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| Jamanda |
Well this was tempting fate wasn't it? One stung me today - but only one. And I'd been rootling through for quite a while. Her maj was in the upstairs super I'd taken off and I was looking downstairs in the brood box. I was nearly to the end when they decided they'd had enough. I could tell they were getting ratty - they'd been purring like a kitten before but started to get agitated. Then one stung my hand through my latex glove. With Mrs B's experiences fresh in my mind I put it all back together pronto - no more stings, though one chased Sean, who was hanging about with no suit on, away. She left him alone once she thought he was at a respectful distance. I've left them so cool off, and will pop back in a while to tidy up properly. Do you think they could tell the queen wasn't there any more and that's what upset them? Didn't see any more obvious queen cells - loads of brood and drone cells but no big ones. |