| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| Brownbear |
If Max Mosley has non-modal preferences?Bringing an action against the News of the World, Mr. Mosley's barrister has spoken words which should be set in stone and displayed in every newsroom in the land:
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| Shane |
Re: If Max Mosley is a sexual pervert?Perhaps that should read
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| Rob R |
Re: If Max Mosley is a sexual pervert?
No. Now had the question been If Max Mosley is a sexual deviant?, the answer would be yes. |
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| Northern_Lad |
Re: If Max Mosley is a sexual pervert?
Why? Just out of interest. Personally, I'd like the result of this case to be a cash fine (to a charity of his choice) of such magnitute that it closes the NotW and all it's sister papers. |
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| tahir |
Re: If Max Mosley is a sexual pervert?
That'd be nice |
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| RichardW |
Re: If Max Mosley is a sexual pervert?
That would have to be a lot of money I thought they owned the world, well they seem to behave as if they do. Richard |
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| Rob R |
Re: If Max Mosley is a sexual pervert?
I'm not aware of the details of the case, just going on the definition of the word 'perversion'. He may be either, for all I know. |
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| Brownbear |
Re: If Max Mosley is a sexual pervert?
I wondered that too. I would have thought that the two terms were more or less interchangeable. Indeed, it seems likely that more or less everyone's tastes differ from the norm to some degree, so to a greater or lesser extent I would imagine deviants are in the majority. In which case, what are they deviating from? An interesting point to consider. |
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| Northern_Lad |
Re: If Max Mosley is a sexual pervert?
...late at night. |
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| Behemoth |
There are documentaries about this sort of thing. | ||||||
| Rob R |
As I've understood it deviance is a more serious form of perversion where others well being/lawful society is implicated
(ie a pervert can only harm themselves & other willing participants, whereas deviants harm others), have I got it the wrong way round? 
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| Brownbear |
It was my understanding that insofar as there is a distinction, perversion is a more outlandish or unusual expression of, ahem, individuality, than deviance, which just means to have different tastes, to deviate from the norm. So if a chap liked going to bed with other chaps he would be a deviant, but if he liked to do so whilst dressed as a chicken and with a dead badger on his head, he would be a pervert. At the same time, a fellow who only wanted to go to bed with his wife would not be a deviant in choice of partner, but the same chicken/badger interests would place him in the legions of the perverted. Though perhaps in the present day, a chap who only lay with his wife might well be a deviant from the norm as well. |
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| Rob R |
Well maybe we are talking at cross purposes but either way, I'm not interested nor bothered what Max Mosely gets up to outside of his public life. | ||||||
| Chez |
I think that pretty much sums it up - what consenting adults choose to do in private, provided the badgers are already dead when they involve them, is their own business. |
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| LynneA |
What he does in private doesn't matter so much as what he may have meant last year when he said that Lewis Hamilton was the wrong sort of person to win the F1 title. | ||||||
| cab |
He said that? Really? When and where? 'Cos it sounds quite shocking, its hard to think of a context in which that wouldn't make him a maggot. |
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| Brownbear |
Or a moral pervert, a far different creature to the fun-loving sexual pervert he at first appears to be. |
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| sean |
I was always told that using a feather was erotic and using a chicken was perverted. | ||||||
| Rob R |
I'm looking for the reference, all I've found so far is:
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| cab |
Can't say as I'm comfortable with pointing at anyone and referring to them as a sexual pervert. Its not just a harmless adjective, its used too often as a value judgement. I don't see the value in lumping an increadibly broad range of preferences together under the loaded label 'perversion', and you can't rescue that by simply broadening the definition out to cover even more people, nor really do I see anything to gain in speculatign as to what someone may or not enjoy, provided no one gets harmed. |
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| Pilsbury |
I again, am not perticuarly bothered what consenting adults get up to in their own time, so long as no one is coersed (sp), forced, tricked or misled into joining someone in their tastes or fetish and so long as no one is hurt more than they wish to be it is down to the individuals to enjoy themselves. Most of the problems come from dodgy reporters hiding in cupboards and trees bringing this 'important' information to the public view. | ||||||
| LynneA |
He said it in the aftermath of the Williams / Ferrari spying row. How he got away with it at the time I'll never know. Maybe it was generally thought he was referring to guilt by association with the "ideas exchange", but I know how I interpreted it. |
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| Brownbear |
In keeping with the rules of the forum, I agree with you entirely and withdraw, retract and disown all previous remarks of which you might disapprove, and withdraw from the debate. |
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| Jonnyboy |
Re: If Max Mosley is a sexual pervert?
Didn't he employ prostitutes? |
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| Pilsbury |
He did but as I understand it they really didnt need the money, some people work as prostitutes through choice, I know there are many thousands that are forced into it but there are some that do it through choice and as I understand teh story the 3 he hired earned more in that night than I do in a month.
In many countries around the world it is a recognised and valued profession and not a thing to be looked down on. |
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| Rob R |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7070564.stm |
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| Jonnyboy |
Still economic necessity, unless they banged an octogenarian out of the goodness of their hearts, and the price was just to cover expenses. You know the stuff, uniforms, ointment, lice powder....... |
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| Mary-Jane |
Re: If Max Mosley is a sexual pervert?
Actually, I thought he was acting as a litigant in person. He's a former barrister. |
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| Rob R |
Very expensive uniforms & ointments? 
However by that definition we are all vulnerable people exploited by economic need if we work for a living... |
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| Treacodactyl |
I didn't know you used to work as one. 
Not if you make your own, an ideal article for Downsizer if anyone can write one. 
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| Pilsbury |
And if you have seen me you know why I went out of business, you can only give so many 110% refunds
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| Pel |
Re: If Max Mosley is a sexual pervert?
What is the point of dressing up as these types of people? didn't even know people dressed up as sheikhs and harems.. thought it was like maids and teachers. I'll agree with that he is a sexual deviant.. unless he does use dead badgers...but either way i don't really care, as long as no one puts a stop to what he is on about. |
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| dpack |
umm |
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| Northern_Lad |
He was quite right too. We can't have British people going round winning things. Think of the shame, and public hand-wringing our PM will have to do in 100 years' time. |
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| Rob R |
Women deny Mosley 'Nazi theme' | ||||||
| Brownbear |
This has to be the best line ever from any court case:
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| Erikht |
If a man wants Helga to Smeck him, it should be his own affair. This case is mighty fun, though. | ||||||
| Jonnyboy |
Has anyone actually seen the video? It sounds to me like an outtake from a mel brooks film. | ||||||
| Erikht |
Let me just say that Helga does Smeck him... |
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| Erikht |
Parental Warning....
http://www.236.com/feed/2008/03/31/racing_prez_digs_nazi_sex_5554.php The cup of tea at the end makes this very English, non? |
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| lottie |
Gordon Bennet is that what all the fuss was about---I'd only heard it reported second hand. If that's how he wants to spend his money it's his business. |
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| Jonnyboy |
I was wrong, Mel Brooks would have better props, as did allo allo for that matter.
If that's all they have then.... |
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| Erikht |
I hear that they got 5 hours with sound. |
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| Jonnyboy |
Brilliant, 5 hours and only one cup . That's how we conquered the world; stamina, discipline and a nice cup of tea. | ||||||
| Erikht |
No extra points for guessing what kind of school he went to. |
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| Brownbear |
This court case presents the unusual spectacle of a man seeking to remove public opprobrium from his head by replacing it with ridicule. His case seems in essence to be that he wasn't inspired by The Night Porter so much as the Benny Hill Show | ||||||
| Chez |
I think the whole Nazi fuss would be considerably less if he wasn't a Mosely, wouldn't it? | ||||||
| Brownbear |
Indeed; a morbid fascination with Nazi regalia is not an uncommon fetish. As some American writer once said when a shrill political opponent called him a 'Nazi': "Has anyone ever fantasised about being tied up and ravished by a liberal?" |
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| Mary-Jane |
*Snigger* 
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| cab |
Wasn't Paddy Ashdown rather a pinup with women of a certain age? | ||||||
| Chez |
There's a MySpace group called "Sexy liberals and women who love them" or something similar. I have lots of time with My Friend Google today 
Edited: I think Paddy's attraction might be because he is so awfully *stern*, rather than his inherent liberalism. |
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| Brownbear |
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| lottie |
Not any I knew 
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| Chez |
OMG
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| Jonnyboy |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7523034.stm
He won. I wonder if police will stop naming and shaming kerb crawlers now? |
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| Brownbear |
I just heard a representative of the gutter press on the radio - he seemed genuinely astonished that Mosley hadn't just meekly submitted to having his personal hobbies spread all over the press, resigned his job and sloped off in shame etc. His position, if one may put it like that, was that anyone whose carnal interests were a bit out of the ordinary had forfeited the right to a private life, or any sort of life without public shame and ridicule.
There may or may not be good reasons to dislike Max Mosley and consider him an unsavoury individual, but I don't see how his delight in having his bum spanked by Madame Helga or whoever counts for very much among them. Nor, TBH, do I see how it would have mattered if he'd been dressed up in a Hitler outfit, complete with comedy moustache and lederhosen. Pretty strange way of working up to a Phalacrocorax aristotelis, but hardly worthy of a public expose. |
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| Jonnyboy |
I agree completely. But he used payed prostitutes and a kerb crawler is named and shamed by the police. Therefore, I think there is a legitimate public interest when someone can avoid that by simply being rich and having a spare flat to indulge his fantasies. |
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| Brownbear |
As I understand it, there is no law against working as a prostitute or engaging the services of one, but there is a law against soliciting prostitution in the street. No doubt there are many women who would object most strongly to passing men importuning them in the street, and people of all kinds who object to having a public brothel on the pavement of their areas. |
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| Rob R |
Are you saying that he shouldn't have paid the prostitutes? Surely that would have landed him in the employment courts...
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| Jonnyboy |
Really? then I stand corrected then. He wasn't breaking any laws.
There's an ethical dimension to his use of prostitutes, but I really don't have the will to get into it. |
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| Rob R |
The laderhosen or the Nazi uniform?
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| Brownbear |
There used to be provision in case law that if a commercial transaction were 'tainted with immorality' then the law would provide no remedy for a breech of contract. A Victorian case when a man's mistress sued him for no longer paying her bills set the precident, I think. I'm not sure if it's still valid, though. |
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| Chez |
I think that's correct - soliciting and 'living off immoral earnings', ie, pimping or being a 'Madam' are illegal. Actual prostitution isn't. Ditto the 'will to get in to a discussion about the ethics of prostitution' thing - perhaps one rainy afternoon in the winter?  .
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| Brownbear |
My toes are curling at the mere thought of it. |
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| Helen_A |
I was under the impression that the women concerned weren't prostitutes though... | ||||||
| Brownbear |
He paid them to engage in sexual acts with him. |
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| Shane |
Well, he's sixty grand better off this morning...that would pay for a few more sessions, if he were into that kind of thing. Not that I'm saying he is, of course. | ||||||
| Northern_Lad |
The sun have called it "an end to freedom". Quite the opposite I would have thought. | ||||||
| Behemoth |
What, "the freedom to end"? | ||||||
| Brownbear |
In the strange world of the gutter press, no free-born Brit can be denied the chance to learn which spiky-haired ball-kicking lout is dallying with which airhead off the telly. I recall the producer from the Jerry Springer show being interviewed, and claiming that the GIs who died on Omaha Beach were sacrificing their lives for the freedom to display enraged halfwits howling abuse at one another on the television. |
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| Chez |
Can I have a tiny excursion in to seriousness? Do people *really* want to read about this kind of thing in their Prole Fodder? And why do supposedly serious newspapers pick up on it?
I'm not saying that I'm so high minded that I won't read at least the headline and the synopsis of a piece about something like this in a paper that I've bough, or visit online. But I certainly wouldn't change my buying or reading habits because of it - and presumably one of the actual reasons for publication is that it increases circulation? |
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| Rob R |
I don't want to read about it, but an awful lot of people seem to do. And when they ring in to TV phone-ins proclaiming how much in the public interest it is to have prominent 'celebs' sex secrets out in the public domain I wonder how many of them would like their own private lives filmed in that way & printed in the papers.
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| Brownbear |
Oh dear. Not only has Little Lord Mosley stood up to Murdoch's gutter press and vanquished them, but he has now been savagely attacked (as 'appalling', 'revolting', 'bizarre' and 'depraved') by that great turd in the punchbowl of British journalism, Simon Heffer.
What a strange world it is, to find oneself a partisan of Max Mosley. If only he could arrange for Heffer and Polly Toynbee to be locked in a dungeon together for a week or so, I'd happily organise a whip-round for him. |