| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| Mary-Jane |
Is there really such a thing as organic honey?Sorry if that sounds a dim question, but a bee keeper I know said that to label honey as 'organic' was very misleading because you can never completely guarantee that the bees haven't swarmed elsewhere on to land that isn't certified as organic. Seemed to make sense to me.Any views? |
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| sally_in_wales |
I dimly remember it being acceptable to claim your honey is organic if all the land for something like 4(?) miles around the hives is officially organically farmed- but whether you can physically achieve that anywhere in Britain is another matter | ||||
| Cathryn |
You're bored aren't you? And I thought you had finished marking. 
So, the organic debate. Presumably there is a limit to how many miles bees can fly and if everywhere within that limit is organic then... (I don't know but I suspect that this thread might develop.  )
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| sean |
I *think* that bees will fly up to three miles. | ||||
| Jamanda |
Yes - so hives on Dartmoor where the bees have only foraged over the heather moor which is classed as organic can be labelled as such. (Though you'd be hard put to find any inorganic honey if you ask me) | ||||
| gil |
Most likely places of origin then will be large Highland heather moorland estates, and there's also an organic estate in Cumbria that is big enough to qualify, where they've sited their hives in the middle so as to have 4 miles all around that is their land. |
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| Tavascarow |
In the UK & EU the land has to be registered organic. Hives set in the middle of dartmoor although technicaly probably 99.9% organic cant be sold as such. Also the colonies can only find keep when the heather is in bloom the rest of the year they would need to be kept on lowland where it is almost impossible to find a large enough area thats organic.
It has been proven that insecticides used on such crops have been found in pollen & nectar & subsequently honey. Even pastoral land as I have around me doesn't count as all the livestock are wormed & sheep dipped etc. Also the treatments & feed used in the colonies have to be recognised by an authorising body. If you treat conventionally for varroa & nosema & feed sugar then even in the middle of an organic wilderness your stuck. |
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| sean |
She's talking chemically organic. It's the Organic (food-labelling)/organic (chemistry) divide again. |
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| VM |
On which note, what do you make of 'organic salt'?
Seems wrong to me. |
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| Mary-Jane |
Yes, I wondered that too... |
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| Tavascarow |
Traces of insecticides, fungicides & herbicides as well as other pullutants are found in honey samples all over the country. It's easier to say a chicken or lamb or cauliflower is or isn't organic as the grower/farmer has control of the animal/plant & the inputs. I have no control over my neighbours land & if they spray for aphids or botrytis & my bees forage over their land then traces of those chemicals will be found in the honey. You wouldn't call sweetcorn that has been treated with a neonicotinoid insecticide seed treatment organic, & its proven that such chemicals are found in samples of honey from colonies nearby. Albeit small traces & probably harmless in such quantities but 'organic' is a term that indicates purity & free from such chemicals so I would say it's almost impossible to find organic honey in the UK. Wish I could.
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| beean |
What about foundation? Wax comb can have plenty of chemicals found in it (Apistan being a past fave!) so couldn't foundation?
Legally you can only call it organic if the forage is organic, as mentioned already. |
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| cassy |
I guess if you wanted to buy "organic" honey in order to minimise the risk pesticide/fungicide contamination then the Demeter standard would help you identify beekeepers who kept bees more naturally. | ||||
| Nick |
Do I get extra marks for suggesting organic prawns is a load of old billocks, too? | ||||
| Midland Spinner |
I have some shampoo that lists "organic seaweed" as an ingredient. 
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| bagpuss |
yep, organic salt they really are having a laugh aren't they |
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| Tavascarow |
Indeed most bought foundation contains concentrations of fluvalinate which is the active ingredient found in bayvarol & apistan until recently the most commonly used treatments for varroa. I think the organic standards (from memory) stipulate using your own wax for foundation not bought in but don't quote me. People think that because a honey bee is in effect a wild animal feeding on wild flowers that the honey is natural but if your hives are situated within foraging distance of a crop like OSR then it is anything but natural. Chemically treated monocultures are not natural & if the bees have a choice between an abundant source of nectar & pollen as they find with OSR & less from clover & tree flowers they will choose the more abundant. The new neonicotinoid seed treatments are translocating & long lasting & even if the crop isn't sprayed traces have been found in both nectar & pollen & the subsequent honey. |