| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| tahir |
JavaWe're up to version 1.0 on most of our new system, mySQL backend with cgi scripts and xsl front end, I've been on at our programmers for ages about using something that is faster to program with more built in functions etc (field validation, lookups etc) they've suggested moving v 2.x to Java which they'll migrate their existing c++ windows programmes to as well, so that they all have a goodknowledge of Java.I know nothing about Java except that it's platform independent and that there's a large community out there implying that there should be plenty of prebuilt tools available. Any views? |
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| jema |
I could be off the mark here, but I don't think Java is at all fast.
I think it compiles to pcode that then gets interpreted. |
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| vegplot |
Java can be very slow. I've not yet met a Java system which one could be considered fast. | ||||||
| tahir |
That's what I'd heard too, but to be fair that was probably 8 years ago, since when processor speeds have moved on hugely, plus we're not doing stuff that's hugely complex. Anyone actually used it? | ||||||
| jema |
Once to animate a banner about 10 years ago, when it seemed like java might be the way to do things on the web.
So in reality no. |
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| Barefoot Andrew |
My observations of Java are that it seems reasonably nippy: not like a native application but perfectly usable given the technical benefits it brings.
I'm developing a Java application which works just fine on a 1.4GHz Athlon running the 1.6 JRE. When used on JRE inside a virtualised Ubuntu machine under VMware - on the same host machine - it's a bit sluggish but entirely tolerable. I also use the Netbeans IDE - a major application, which itself is Java and runs under the same 1.6JRE. It's not turbo charged, but it's perfectly usable. Just my observations. A. |
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| jocorless |
Yes - I'm a Java programmer and it can be extremely fast if written correctly - depends what you want to do with it - if you are writing a web based application with a complicated middle layer that needs to talk to multiple systems and handle transactions and roll backs - I'd go with Java/Hibernate/Velocity or JSF as that is what it is designed for - If its a simple app with lightweight calls to a DB - I'd go with PHP | ||||||
| tahir |
Thanks guys, we're looking at a system that currently supports 20 users, this should have expanded to 30 by the end of next year. There aren't really any processor hungry things going on, it's mostly quite simple data entry and reporting. | ||||||
| jocorless |
Just to add - I would never ever use Java to write a Windows based app - go with .Net, its always going to be faster and the Swing part of Java is a pain in the backside unless you really know what you are doing | ||||||
| tahir |
What they specifically want is a platform independent product, their user base is split between browser based GUIs and (Windows) C++ GUIS, they're looking for something to move the whole lot to. PHP doesn't do that does it? |
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| Barefoot Andrew |
PHP can be platform independent - but in all truth it's probably not the tool for the job.
Aside from any performance concerns, the Javav-orientated suggestions of your technical people sound reasonable to me. A. |
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| jocorless |
Yeah of course it does - it doesn't care what its running on as long as PHP is installed on the server everything else is served via a browser, you can even have PHP running on a Mac - I use XAMPP for developing on my windows machine - which translates to LAMP for Linux and there are various other flavours out there - but you are now into Jema's territory rather than mine | ||||||
| tahir |
So PHP is another option, would there be a (simple) way of passing Windows logons to the server to set rights etc? The apps will be sitting on a Linux box. | ||||||
| jocorless |
I would agree with BA - Java is probably the best solution for what you want - you can build it in such a way that you can expand it as the business requires it and most of the Best of Breed software you need is Open source | ||||||
| jocorless |
Don't honestly know about PHP but it can be done in Java - I wrote part of the NHS portal making use of that sort of technology |
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| tahir |
If Java sounds viable then I'll let them run with it. I was only really worried about the performance implications.
Thanks all (Only on Downsizer....  )
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| Barefoot Andrew |
This would be complicated - you would need some native app/service on the Windows box to communicate login information to the server in a secure/robust way.
A. |
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| jocorless |
Well its not really - if you make use of LDAP or Active Directory for your Windows logon's - then the apps can use the same thing for Single Sign On - Obviously there are other ways of doing it - I have used hardware encryption before today but LDAP/Active directory is a reasonable way of going about it | ||||||
| tahir |
We use AD | ||||||
| Barefoot Andrew |
Fair enough. Not really my field that. Tahir - one suggestion to keep in mind. When developing any GUI type app multi-threading is an important tool, but particularly so on a platform like Java where performance may be an area of concern. It can help to avoid perceived poor responsiveness by making proper use of threads, particularly in relation to Swing. This sort of suggestion should hopefully be of the grandma-sucking-eggs variety to your technical people. A. |
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| tahir |
Will let em know | ||||||
| vegplot |
That would do the job admirably and save a whole lot of additional authentication. |
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| tahir |
In what way? The AD applies only to the Win network, the Linux servers are on the same net but don't use AD authentication |
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| vegplot |
This may help http://www.securityfocus.com/infocus/1563 Your interoperability requirement is easily handled on a web interface and as you simply modifying records and generating report then a web solution seems (at first glance anyway) to be the easiest and least complex route. If it we're hosted on Windows I'd develop it in .NET, SQL Server and probably use Crystal Reports but as you're running Linux then it makes sense to use using PHP. Unless I've grabbed the pooh end of the stick that is. |
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| vegplot |
Forms authentication, or whatever the equivalent is on a Linux system. |
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| tahir |
It's not just for us though, they want the same product to replace all their current stuff, they have clients on pure Linux networks, Linux with Windows clients (C+ Win GUI ), and Linux with browser interfaces. | ||||||
| vegplot |
A Linux web application with javascript or a Java app seem to be you only choices. |
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| tahir |
That';s where we are at the mo, they want to move to Java cos it'll give them access to a lot of additional tools and the ability to easily re-use bits of code. |
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| tahir |
Looks like we're headed towards netbeans, some of you have played with this haven't you? | ||||||
| Barefoot Andrew |
Yes, I do. Anything you'd like to know about it?
A. |
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| jocorless |
I've used netbeans and Eclipse - both much of a muchness - Of the 2 - I think Eclipse is probably has the slight edge because of the cross-industry support - For instance it has loads of plugins for aiding build and testing such as the m2Eclipse plugin which interfaces Eclipse with Maven - Apache Maven is the industry standard for creating extensible and reliable enterprise builds.
http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=50053 This is place to go do research on what is going on in Java is http://www.theserverside.com/ - it's a fantastic resource |
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| jocorless |
It also has stuff for JSF, Velocity, Hibernate and lots of other industry standard tools - even Borland builds its compiler on top of Eclipse | ||||||
| tahir |
Nothing at the moment but I might get my man Derek to talk to you at some stage |
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| tahir |
Thanks Jo, have passed all that on to him |