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onemanband

Living on land with planning permission.

Can you just move on ?
How long can you get away with it ?

Just weighing up my options at the moment.
One of them being purchasing plot with full planning permission, and living onsite.
The capital in my house would cover cost of land and setting up mobile unit, but not having or wanting a mortgage (been there, done it) funding of new build would be as and when and a looooooooooong term project.
I understand there is a five year expiry on PP. If I got footings in within 5 years does that help with retaining permission ?
Rob R

There's nothing wrong with it unless/until you are challenged by the local authority, but it can make it very difficult if you or anyone else want to apply for planning in the future. It all depends on the situation though and on the support of the locals.

Is there conditions on the planning (such as an ag-tie)? You generally are given 3 years to start so if it is the same then getting the footings in within three years would help with the planning side, but it does all depend upon the individual permission, as there may be conditions on the time of completion too.
stumbling goat

AFAIAA the planning permission expires unless the development is started within 5 years of being granted.

I have seen suggested that laying footings is sufficient to start, but then, why not making the excavation for the footings? Or making the first dig with a spade? I believe that you have to notify the LA as well of commencement, that would show a start time.

sg
onemanband

So if I got groundworks done in the 3 or 5 year period - that's the easy part for me - would I then have another 3 or 5 years to say get the structure built ?

TBH the house bit doesn't bother me as long as I've got off road parking, my builders yard, a workshop, a garage/outbuilding and have some garden left then I'm happy. Finding that sort of accomadation in these parts on my budget isn't easy hence exploring this option and looking to stretch living on site as long as possible or even indefinately.
T.G

What we have been told and have had no one tell us different (authority giving permission gave the advice) was that once the project had been started if it took us 50 years or more to finish that's entirely up to us.

It could be different in your area, but we are in a national park who are normally pretty picky
onemanband

What we have been told and have had no one tell us different (authority giving permission gave the advice) was that once the project had been started if it took us 50 years or more to finish that's entirely up to us.


Thank-you.
That's what I hoped was the case.

It's took me 15 years to do nothing on this house so that sounds good. Laughing
digit

I do ground works for people,and as long as you've opened a trench and called the building inspector out (and payed his fees) to inspect it, you've started the build, I've got one to do next week, he's only got 3 weeks planning left before it runs out, he's got no intention of going any further with the built because he hasn't got the money. Once you've started there's no time limit. Around this area we've got private firm that will do the inspections, a lot more helpful and cheaper than the local council, plus they give you a completion certificate at the end of the build(like an architect's certificate)
Rob R

What we have been told and have had no one tell us different (authority giving permission gave the advice) was that once the project had been started if it took us 50 years or more to finish that's entirely up to us.

It could be different in your area, but we are in a national park who are normally pretty picky


That's what I've heard, from brother, nice to know he didn't just completely make it up. Smile
onemanband

As I said I'm only exploring the options at the moment so it's all hyperthetical -

Let's say foundations are in and slabs poured, I'm living in a 'temporary' structure and all outbuildings comply with planning or are 'temporary' structures.
Could I use the floor area of house (now concreted) for other purposes - eg parking or 'temporary' structures ? Or would that be taking the mick and upsett the authorities ?
Or in other words - would you have to show some intention of carrying on with build or can you just blatently not bother and stick a mobile unit onto the house slab ?
digit

If you used the slab for anything other than what you got planning for, you could be in trouble with the council, and you don't want the council on you're back all the time onemanband

If you used the slab for anything other than what you got planning for, you could be in trouble with the council, and you don't want the council on you're back all the time
That seems fair enough. I knew there'd be a catch somewhere.

I suppose I could stick the living room furniture on the slab in the summer Laughing
or have a bbq in the kitchen area Laughing
digit

If you used the slab for anything other than what you got planning for, you could be in trouble with the council, and you don't want the council on you're back all the time
That seems fair enough. I knew there'd be a catch somewhere.

I suppose I could stick the living room furniture on the slab in the summer Laughing
or have a bbq in the kitchen area Laughing
Once you plaster the walls, you'll be charge council tax Mad
I've just built my own house and i lived in a caravan on site, i had to pay the lower band council tax on the caravan and as soon as i plastered the walls inside the house the council wanted to charge me council tax on the house as well Mad
mark

I would take legal advice on this. The law is complicated.

However it does seem that if you use land or property which has certain permissions for another use that constitutes a change of use and can invalidate the original planning permissions.

ie I use land approved for a home as a workshop - or I use land approved for a permanent dwelling as a caravan park.

Not only is the new use not legal - but it can invalidate the original permissions.

Eg if I have a chip shop and let it to someone who uses it as a general store - then take possession of it I may well have to reapply for the chip shop use - even though permissions have already been given because of different use in between.

I'm not expert and this area is governed by case law - and some cases imply opposite results so their is plenty of potential for long expensive legal battles! So take I would advice.

(I am a Landlord and not a lawyer!)
T.G

If you used the slab for anything other than what you got planning for, you could be in trouble with the council, and you don't want the council on you're back all the time
That seems fair enough. I knew there'd be a catch somewhere.

I suppose I could stick the living room furniture on the slab in the summer Laughing
or have a bbq in the kitchen area Laughing
Once you plaster the walls, you'll be charge council tax Mad
I've just built my own house and i lived in a caravan on site, i had to pay the lower band council tax on the caravan and as soon as i plastered the walls inside the house the council wanted to charge me council tax on the house as well Mad

Just make sure the internal walls are finished well and go for an industrial look Wink
onemanband

Ok that sounds like;

If I don't put anything on area of house and my accomodation is temporary - that's ok.
Workshop is more for domestic use - motorbikes and such things - so that's ok
Builders yard would be bigger than what's presently in my garden now, but I won't be manufacturing or selling from there - just storage of equipment, surpluss and stock materials. Anyhow would be no different to self-build clutter. So guess that would be ok.

It also sounds like :

Not having enough funds to complete the build is ok.
But doing something which implies I have no intention of finishing build - such as change of use or preventing construction continuing (ie placing accomodation on house slab)- then that is not ok.

I guess having the funds to complete build or a proper programme of works would help if there was an issue with living on-site but there is no need for me to otherwise provide such information ?

It's not that I intend not to build. Just that if I go down this route I would only do it if I can be certain of not being evicted if house was not built in a certain timescale.
gil

I don't know whether it is different in Scotland, or whether the 're-crofting scheme' is different again, but DS member cassy might have some useful info.

They're on land with PP for self-build, and several similar plots near them in various stages of design/build/finished, over different timescales.
Apparently it took one chap 10 years to complete his self-build - he did it all himself in between working, which helped raise the funds to do the build.

We were talking about whether the council had a different way of dealing with folk who really were 'self-building', and those who would just throw money at it and hire contractors for every aspect (much faster).
wipka84

Provided you start the development and get it signed off by the LA the time limits for the planning consent fall away.

There may be conditions as well within your planning consent that stipulate a period for when, from commencement, the development must be completed by.

The local billing authority may then, if you delay development, serve a notice on you giving a time period when they consider the development to have completed by and start charging council tax from that date, regardless of the physical state of the building. As far as I know, there is no set criteria from when a new build property is deemed habitable which would stop them from doing this. This was introduced to prevent builders leaving developments as a shell until a sale had been secured and avoiding council tax.

You may also encounter problems by stretching development over a long period of time, keeping up with building regulations, as when it comes to sign off, what you may have undertaken in line with BR, could be outdated and require changes before sign off will be given.
mark

>just storage of equipment, surpluss and stock materials.<

This could be the tricky bit. If you are not progressing the build but appear to be using the land to support another business as its prime use then you could find you invalidate your original planning permission.

You don't say what is included in the planning application re workshops and storage.
There is a difference between restoration and new build here I think. I f you are restoring out buildings are considered as ancilliary to the main house - if their is no habitable permanent dwelling constructed as in a delayed new build yet their status may be different - as they become the main use the land is put to.
If they are their mainly to help in the building of the house no problem - but if you try to run another business form their which is visible in its comings and goings you could come cropper if you don't have prior approval
Do check with your local planning officer
The point is that time limits can mean nothing when the property has been used for a different useage
onemanband

Provided you start the .......................................

That all sounds fair enough.
Not to bothered by council tax issue as its something you pay anyway.
Re; building regs - yes could be an issue. I guess if work is done in stages that don't take too long from start to finish and are passed as you go then that shouldn't be a big issue.

All stuff to consider. Ta
stumbling goat

Building regulations approval is non retrospective, you can not be asked to improve once the notice has been issued if you have gone for full planning with BR.

If you are doing the job "on a notice" calling the Building Inspector in for each stage of your cards, if they still issue stages cards, then I suspect that you would need to comply with the current regs as they are at that time you do that part of the project and get it inspected and passed. Interesting issue that one, I am not 100% sure.

sg
cassy

I don't know whether it is different in Scotland, or whether the 're-crofting scheme' is different again, but DS member cassy might have some useful info.
Don't know how useful it will be but have PM'd what I know.

Have you come across Chapter 7? Their planning info might be helpful for establishing whether running your business from the site would cause problems.

Best of luck with it!
onemanband

>just storage of equipment, surpluss and stock materials.<

This could be the tricky bit..................................

That all makes sense.

I see no problems with having a builders yard at an existing house as long as its fenced off and not an eyesore, but your points on change of use could well be a problem if I dragged my feet on the build.

My other main option is to move 30 miles north into an existing property. 99% of my work is south of me so I would effectively make myself unemployed till I re-establish (in a less affluent area). I suppose this is the downsizing option.
The land with PP option would enable me to stay in this area and remain mortgage free and with abundant work. However it is looking like this option means I would have to show some serious financial commitment to completing a build. I suppose this option is actually more upsizing.
gz

Building regulations approval is non retrospective, you can not be asked to improve once the notice has been issued if you have gone for full planning with BR.

If you are doing the job "on a notice" calling the Building Inspector in for each stage of your cards, if they still issue stages cards, then I suspect that you would need to comply with the current regs as they are at that time you do that part of the project and get it inspected and passed. Interesting issue that one, I am not 100% sure.

sg

ISTR when I did that the cards to be returned had a date on them...unless things have changed since 2004/6....we did get asked why hadn't we started/finished. (combination of prat plan designer, prat builder before I got a really good one and Serious Snow Confused )
onemanband

I don't know whether it is different in Scotland, or whether the 're-crofting scheme' is different again, but DS member cassy might have some useful info.
Don't know how useful it will be but have PM'd what I know.

Have you come across Chapter 7? Their planning info might be helpful for establishing whether running your business from the site would cause problems.

Best of luck with it!

Yes thanks for that.
And thanks everyone else for advice.

Thinking now that if I go down the land with PP route I should look at cheaper plots leaving me with more to fund a build(and therefore less chance of being turfed off) - but that means I may not get the space I require Confused
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