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chrysalis

Log Cabin living in a garden

Hi All - this is my first post, so forgive any mistakes Wink !

When I retire in 3 years Shocked my mortgage will still have 8yrs to run (due to hubby's currently 2yrs unemployment) I won't be able to afford to live here then. I was wondering about possibility of selling up, divvying out the spoils between 2 daughters, and buying a log cabin (around £10k all in), sited in older one's garden. Most ads for these say they are suitable as additional accommodation, offices, etc. Do you reckon they'd need PP? Has anyone tried this?

Chrysalis
cir3ngirl

On your post sorry no idea.

But hello and welcome hello2 anyway
lettucewoman

I think this thread could be relevant to you...http://forum.downsizer.net/viewtopic.php?t=53636&highlight=


Welcome to downsizer BTW!! Very Happy Very Happy
chrysalis

Hi both - thanks for speedy replies & encouragement Very Happy

I had seen that temp dwelling on your land site, but does that just apply to something like a field or wood? This would be in an established garden. I was hoping to install compost loo, solar energy, etc (and use daughter's tumble drier, etc., in the winter for a small fee Wink )

Chrysalis
chrysalis

PS

PS - I LOVE this forum Very Happy !
pookie

welcome!! Very Happy
Hairyloon

I believe that if you plan to use it as a residence, then you will need planning permission.
If it is just a detached extension to the house (e.g a study, or occasional guest accommodation), then you may not (provided it is less than how big, etc.).
Depending on the neighbours, you could try it under the eleventh commandment.
JohnB

In theory I think you'll need planning permission, that you may well not get. There are permitted development rights that allow you to put up buildings in your garden, but NOT for living in. This is what is, and isn't, allowed without planning permission. Note that larger buildings may need building regs. Permitted development rights can be withdrawn if the house is a listed building, or in some other circumstances.

Of course what you do in reality is another matter, but whether you get away with it depends on your local authority and the attitude of the neighbours. I wouldn't be comfortable being committed to doing it, with no alternative plan if you get into trouble.
Hairyloon

P.S. £10k sounds like a lot.
I'm sure the one we built was nearer £5k. All 5 of them lived in it for 18 months while we built the real house.
Was a bit of a squeeze for them mind.
Rob R

10k isn't a lot for residental spec, depending upon the size.
chrysalis

Another daft question ...

would you need PP to have one of those lovely gipsy caravans I've seen somewhere else on DS in your garden?

Chrysalis
Calli

Rob R wrote:
10k isn't a lot for residental spec, depending upon the size.


Not even close by my research.

Don't go by the quoted figures as they often don't include the landworks and expensive stuff.

It isn't cheap to dig out and lay foundations, as for the amenities?? sheesh

Rolling Eyes
lottie

Sorry to be a party pooper but even if you could get away with this now what would happen if your daughter had to move or even worse heaven forbid died. If you can't afford to live where you are when you retire surely better to downsize to what is manageable financially and let your kids wait until you pop your clogs to "divi up" anything left. The only thing certain about life is that it isn't.
Penny Outskirts

Hello and welcome hello2

On the planning stuff - what JohnB said.

But I do agree with Lottie, when money is involved even your nearest an dearest can be really horrible and act completely out of character. Sad
VM

King Lear comes to mind...

Would there be any way you could let out your current home and find somewhere very cheap to live while the mortgage is still being paid off?

Or do you have a spare room you can rent?
Rob R

Calli wrote:
Rob R wrote:
10k isn't a lot for residental spec, depending upon the size.


Not even close by my research.

Don't go by the quoted figures as they often don't include the landworks and expensive stuff.

It isn't cheap to dig out and lay foundations, as for the amenities?? sheesh

Rolling Eyes


I reckon you should double the cost of the kit for an erected price.
Blue Sky

chrysalis wrote:
Hi both - thanks for speedy replies & encouragement Very Happy

I had seen that temp dwelling on your land site, but does that just apply to something like a field or wood? This would be in an established garden. I was hoping to install compost loo, solar energy, etc (and use daughter's tumble drier, etc., in the winter for a small fee Wink )

Chrysalis


Great idea. Let us know how you get on.

and WELCOME!
wellington womble

Re: Another daft question ...

chrysalis wrote:
would you need PP to have one of those lovely gipsy caravans I've seen somewhere else on DS in your garden?

Chrysalis


Planning permission is granted for use of a building, as well as the building itself. In my experience (which is very negative, but reasonably wide) you would be very unlikely to get planning permission for such a project, but there is no reason why you shouldn't try - you might be luckier than we were.
Cobnut

Re: Log Cabin living in a garden

chrysalis wrote:
....Do you reckon they'd need PP? Has anyone tried this?

Chrysalis


I asked my local planning dept if I could live in an eco-friendly, off grid, caravan in my own paddock [if I sold my cottage but kept that bit] and they said absolutely not. The reason was because I live in open countryside and the policy is strictly no new builds or new residential properties. Even though the caravan in moveable, as I’d be living in it for more than 28 days per year, it would be classes as a residential property and therefore not allowed. On the other hand they were likely to allow me to build a granny annex, especially if it was attached to the cottage (even though they'd just said NO WAY to new residential properties Rolling Eyes). So I’d imagine if you plan to live in it full time you’d need PP unfortunately.
lettucewoman

Another way of doing it might be to sell the house and move into a park home...this is what we did when we decided that we didn't want to saddle ourselves with a mortgage at 49 and 50 years old...we own our home, its the size of a bungalow, easy to maintain, and the only rent we pay is for the land whch includes the water and is just over 100 a month.
sako

It might say something in the deeds that might forbid any development as you describe.
But personally i would't do it, downsize and live mortgage free.
ATB
Richard
chrysalis

Thanks ...

for all your advice and encouragement hello2 but I reckon it's back to the drawing board for me.

I'll let you know how I get on.

Chrysalis X
frewen

Please do - it's always good to test these ideas out Smile
Mrs R

What about the granny annex idea though - if this is in your daughter's garden and you are about to retire, could you not start mentioning something about your poor old hips and needing somewhere with no stairs, close to your daughter so she can care for you? dontknow
woody guthrie

My mother and father sold their house, money in the bank and moved to a flat in a town centre so they were close to all the amenities and services and now have great life spending my inheritance. Good on them, I hope to do the same for my children.
T.G

I worked for a company which made log cabins- pinelog products, I recall then that they made a variety from garden to holiday and residential, they were very big back then but now they are much smaller and even back in the late 80's they cost a lot more than 10k. Transportation is costly, it’s around £500 for a static, and their log cabin come in two halves, so that would be at least 1K just to have it delivered.

They used to have wheels underneath them so they are still classed as caravans as they are not ‘permanently’ sited so as to skirt around some of the PP rules, and I know some are site permanently, I think the quality of build and type of log cabin goes a long way to convincing PPA.

But what is the access like to the plot you have your eye on? If the PP came through on a type more rigidly built would you be able to actually get it to the site the permission was granted on or would you have to have it craned in or some such?
Barefoot Andrew

Welcome chrysalis Very Happy
A.
chrysalis

Me again ...

... Just wondering if it would work to share the proceeds of my house sale between my two girls, once I sounded No 1 and her hubby about selling their flat and buying a house (which they have wanted to for a long time) with a garage they could get PP for, and convert this into a granny bedsit.

I know lots of people would be worried about sharing like this with their kids, but we are all very close and get along together really well. They are very settled in the area they live, near his parents, etc., and although things can change, they would not be planning to do so.

All this would not only help me, but would enable them to move on up the ladder sooner, rather than having to wait for me to pop my clogs. It would also add value to a new house for them, when I eventually shuffle off ... sorry, this is starting to sound morbid - I'm not planning to go anywhere else for some time yet!

Chrysalis
Chez

I am really, REALLY cautious about speculating on the property market - which is kind of what you are doing, talking about 'moving up the ladder' ... . Not saying it's not right for you and your family; but we have had such a bad experience of the 'property ladder' that the whole thing gives me the wiggins.

What about a static caravan? You can get very comfortable ones, with double glazing and under-floor heating. And you would be retaining your financial independence to some extent. I know you can't legislate for fate, but if your daughter died, what would happen? Or split with her husband? Do those things need to be written down formally?

I sound really negative, I know - but we lost our house two years ago because of the property market. I tend to look on the dark side before I start to look at the positives Smile.
lottie

Chez wrote:
I am really, REALLY cautious about speculating on the property market - which is kind of what you are doing, talking about 'moving up the ladder' ... . Not saying it's not right for you and your family; but we have had such a bad experience of the 'property ladder' that the whole thing gives me the wiggins.

What about a static caravan? You can get very comfortable ones, with double glazing and under-floor heating. And you would be retaining your financial independence to some extent. I know you can't legislate for fate, but if your daughter died, what would happen? Or split with her husband? Do those things need to be written down formally?

I sound really negative, I know - but we lost our house two years ago because of the property market. I tend to look on the dark side before I start to look at the positives Smile.

Exactly what I was trying to say---I've seen this kind of arrangement go really pearshaped for a friend of mine when her daughter died and her son in law remarried.
Duckhead

I think you should get what money you can, enjoy it, live it and if there is anything left then leave it.
I'd hate to think of my mother going short or compromising in order to leave me a bit more.
I'm here all week Very Happy
Chez

sfolati wrote:
I think you should get what money you can, enjoy it, live it and if there is anything left then leave it.
I'd hate to think of my mother going short or compromising in order to leave me a bit more.
I'm here all week Very Happy


You're right, though. I think it's lovely thing to want to do. But if my Ma did it, I'd be really cross. The Now is what is important.
chrysalis

Hi Chez - thanks for your thoughts. I was just thinking that they would love to move into a house (even if it was not much bigger than the flat) and, with the £50k or so I would be able to give, would have a chance to do that. It wouldn't mean a bigger mortgage for them, so I thought this might help us all round.

I will only have the State pension which is forecast at £120pw and, at that rate, would not be able to afford Council tax or any other luxuries if I stayed here. I suppose, though, if I bought a static, the £100k or so I would make from the house sale would cover expenses like that. Rolling Eyes Just concerns me how long the money would last and what you do then Rolling Eyes !

I do appreciate what you're saying about deaths and divorce, etc, and hadn't really considered those possibilities so, maybe not such a good idea after all Confused Seem to be going round in circles here!

Chrysalis X
Chez

I don't think it's a bad idea, per se ... just that you need to be aware of all the ramifications.

We are a mile up the road from my mum's smallholding atm and we are, once again, considering applying for planning to put a static on site. But my sister, who also lives there, and I don't get on. So we need to think it through really carefully. Not quite the same situation - but enough parallels for me to understand where you are coming from.
chrysalis

Hi again Chez

Would you be able to set aside a piece of your Mum's land so you could keep your independence where your sister's concerned?

It's sad about the clash of personalities, as otherwise, this seems a great idea for you. I hope it works out if you decide that's the way to go.

Chrysalis X
Chez

Yes, there are ways round it. Our main concern atm is my sister not giving my mum gyp about us being around. When mum isn't around any more it will be different and there are a number of ways that we could go about things.

I think, don't rush in to anything, is the main thing!
steppenwolf

Hi, my first visit to the site, I know you are an older posting but if you haven't done it yet, DON'T do it. I brought my father to live with me and it was a nightmare, I have just come out of 7 years of legal disputes. I now say to anyone considering any type of homeshare with relatives - never, never. I was warned before I did it and said ' Oh but it's my dad' - no matter, it can happen with anyone. It is true what they say - you don't know someone until you live with them. Since my legal wranglings,started, which cost my thousands and are now forcing me to move home, I have met so many people who have been through it with parents or offspring. Please, you have been warned. Find yourself a quiet bit of land and do it for yourself, or buy the garden from your daughter but do not consider what you propose. Good luck for the future and I hope you make the right decision.
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