| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| mochyn |
Mixing pig feedI want to cut out imported feed from the pigs' diet. It's worked well for the poultry, and I'd be really happy if the pigs could follow suit.I can get whole wheat, flaked oats, barley and maize and micronized peas. Would a combination of those (in a specific ratio) work? Or would I need to add other things? |
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| colour it green |
what do you feed the hens btw? | ||
| Nick |
Re: Mixing pig feed
Chris or Rob's your man for this. However, someone will point out that you need to keep records, and probably be registered, etc etc. |
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| GSHP |
I would also be very interested in how people feed their hens. I would very much like to get away from buying and feeding bags of layers/growers pellets etc and aim for a more natural diet. | ||
| mochyn |
The poultry get whole wheat and soaked micronized peas with grit and all they can forage. Everyone's doing well on it, and thanks to Ixy for the idea. | ||
| Rob R |
You need to keep records, and other paperwork, and be inspected  but it really isn't that bad- just a paper shuffle.
Those ingredients should provide all the macro nutrients you need, although it may be lacking in certain essential fatty acids for which we add vegetable (UK GM free rapeseed) oil at a rate of between 1.5 and 2.5%, with added mineral premix. Although looking at that there are more natural alternatives (to the mineral) such as dried kelp, both available through feed merchants, if you don't live close enough to the sea to collect your own. I would go into it further but life is a little hectic here at the moment, with one thing and another. Chris will probably fill you in on the proportions needed etc. |
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| mochyn |
That's what I thought, Rob. The paperwork probably isn't much more than I already have to do: I record all the feed that comes in as it is. I've e-mailed Defra for more information.
Ta, me duck! |
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| Rob R |
Anytime.  Trading standards are the ones that inspect- they like you to keep everything labelled too so that a random stranger doesn't feed your pigs and give them 'sow' feed when it's been forumulated for sheep, or whatever.
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| bodger |
I've fed soaked rolled peas to my chickens for many years now and they love it. I'd be very interested to hear what the lads have to say about mixing your own pig rations.
I've got some old but very outdated books on pig keeping that give rations for mixing your own pig food. I can imagine the blokes faces at my local merchants if I went in and asked for a bag of weatings . 
Try this. A simple guide to feeding, adaptable to suit any age or class maybe based on the standard foods which have been selected as a result of much careful investigation. The Standard foods are:- Barley Meal. Weatings White fish Meal. and by merely adjusting the proportions of the mixture, a suitable ration for all classes of stock in accordance with the foregoing is arrived at. I love old books, and there then follows a table as to what percentages to feed the three feeds to the various ages and classes of pig. If anyone is interested, I could get the table scanned. The book dates from around the second world war time and is a 'Right way book' called 'Pig Keeping and Breeding' Its a fairly old book dated MCMXL1X I'm afraid that my Roman temporarily deserts me. 
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| mochyn |
That'll be 1949 in English then. I've got a couple of old books somewhere too: I'll have to hunt them out (for a laugh!) |
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| Rob R |
Speaking of fishmeal- that's what we used in my home mixing days for a large pig herd (along with soya or homegrown peas) - what are downsizer's thoughts on the use of fishmeal?
I like reading the old books too, and see what comes around- the chicken ones that say meat is essential in the diet- enough to make DEFRA officials very upset?
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| mochyn |
I'd rather not use fishmeal: not because I don't want my dear little piggies eating dear little fishes but because 1) it's probably not sustainable and 2) I've heard that it can cause a taint to the meat. | ||
| Rob R |
Same here. | ||
| vegplot |
Fishy pork 
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| bodger |
I think that they may have withdrawn the fishmeal for a period before slaughter.
Rolled peas are pretty high in protein is it possible to replace the fish meal with that ? |
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| Pel |
I think its only meant to cause a fishy taste if you go above 5% of a ration, thats what the pig feed specialist at Harbro said. You can apparently get sustainable fishmeal from Aberdeen (there are probably other places, but that the one i know of). You only need about 5% of fishmeal in a feed to get to the 18% protein or less when using some peas in there too (thats using a mix of barley and oats, plus mineral mix)
I think somewhere i have posted a complete ration made up using fihsmeal and peas, if anyone finds it, it has been made using the help of the pig feed specialist from harbro, so I know its balanced. Though normally its seem to be a mixture of 60% grains (barley, wheat mix if you like) with 40% peas makes about an 18% protein feed. I'm all in favour of fishmeal, but the taint does exist if you put too much in, and the price it is at per tonne, should make it less likely. I cant reccomend the Harbro guy enough, he gave free advice and helped make/checked over a ration plus giving prices and where to get it from (though always saying if you can get it local it will probably be cheaper), all for free, though this was 2 years ago. This is the guy i'm on about Yorkshire: Kevin Stickney- Pig Feeds Home: 01508 498088 Mobile: 07802 589437 |
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| RichardW |
I would add to what Rob said. If using a premix mineral additive you need to be a registered feed mixing premises. If you "top dress" the minerals you dont need to be registered but still need records. You also need a distance of separation / controls between your feed types. |
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| lassemista |
Why do peas need to be soaked?
andrea. |
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| bodger |
I soak my peas for the chickens because they find them more palatable, you probably wouldn't have to do that with pigs. | ||
| Rob R |
I assume you're talking about micronised or milled peas rather than whole ones? I've found large livestock will eat them but struggle to deal with whole dried ones and tend to leave them. Pigs ate whole soaked (for about 8 hours) ones though, before we bought a hammer mill (although we still tend to wet feed (rather than soaked) the milled feed just for palatability). | ||
| bodger |
Rob.
Can peas provide the protein portion in full for an otherwise cerial based diet ? |
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| Rob R |
Are we talking pigs? | ||
| bodger |
Oink. 
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| Pel |
I know you asked Rob, but according to this experiment done in the states yes you can and with no ill effect on the carcass. There was a control group, minimum pea and maximum pea, and in each group there were 4 barrows, 4 gilts (penned seperatly). In the minimum pea soya bean was added to it and maximum pea was just pea and no other source of protein down at an inclusion rate of 66%, 48%, and 38% they said that just with the 38% they had covered the same protein content as if they were just using soyabean meal
http://jas.fass.org/cgi/reprint/84/11/3110.pdf |
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| Rob R |
The basic answer; yes. Pigs have a number of essential amino acids (the list I've googled for, I don't know them off my heart) * Arginine * Isoleucine * Histidine * Leucine * Lysine * Methionine plus cystine * Phenylalanine plus tyrosine * Threonine * Tryptophan * Valine And cereals complement them well. The trouble being that AA profiles vary with the quality of the crop, so while the inclusion of other protein sources can give more optimum results in practical terms the advantage of testing all feeds is not worth it, unless you're a big feed mill. Even then they can only give a representative sample. All animals vary slightly as well so the 'perfect' ration never trully exists. Peas are a highly digestible protein and have a good amino acid profile, however increasing their rate of inclusion in a diet is not necessarily going to increase growth as it may be limiting in certain amino acids but wasting many more of those available in the peas. Like most things in life, variety is best, I would try growing a pea or bean, lucerne & cereal mix for the pigs to self feed, if I had the land, and make use of the protein value of the forage element too. Soya is probably the most digestible vegetable protein available to us, but obviously comes with it's own issues, and I don't personally believe that the energy costs are worth it. I also think that the availability of soya on the world market has made us 'lazy' as far as making the most of home grown protein crops, particularly as forage. Things are really picking up now though, as world prices fluctuate. |
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| Ixy |
I soak the peas for the birds because otherwise they're too hard and large for them to get into their beaks - but the micronised ones take minutes to soak through anyway so it's no bother. |