| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| TheGrange |
MRSA curing honeyA shortened linky.£7 a drop eta: well a teaspoon |
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| dpack |
honey has a long history of use as a wound dressing ,it need not be anything fancy to kill staphs and many other nasty bugs | ||||||
| Nick |
And, likewise, Universities in Wales have a long history of 'alternative' treatments. I don't mean crystals and reiki, but they do a lot of work with maggots on wounds and such. Fascinating (and cheap) work. | ||||||
| Jamanda |
What is supposed to be so special about mankuna honey over and above normal honey? | ||||||
| jocorless |
It's the anti-bacterial properties - old story about it here - I believe its related to the teatree
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3787867.stm |
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| Jamanda |
Hmm - but I thought all honey had anti-bacterial qualities. Seems like a bit of good marketing to me. | ||||||
| dpack |
the maggot to clean green wounds is another very old method | ||||||
| Nick |
It is. And with the addition of modern science it's becoming very useful. | ||||||
| jocorless |
I think its got even better properties than other honey's and I think that has been scientifically proven | ||||||
| TheGrange |
they are going on about its amazing qualities at chelsea flower show.
I know when an 18.2 showjumper i owned nearly lost his leg to an unfortunate wirecut incident, through to the bone, along with maggot therapy we used manuka with surprisingly good results, granulation of the wound site was almost non-existant the final would was vastly reduced and he is totally sound. the vets prognosis at the time was to have him shot immediately on site, he is currently 13 and was then 4, hes sound as a pound now 
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| Tavascarow |
Couldn't agree more. Manuka is the local Kiwi name for leptospermum which is a common garden shrub here. Link. I suppose any single source honey taken from a plant with antibacterial properties might have a stronger effect to a mixed flower honey but I can't see manuka being any better than say Australian eucalypt or mediteranean Lavender & rosemary honeys. |
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| Jamanda |
Nothing in that article suggests that. Unique Manuka Factor doesn't do it for me. Needs a fair bit of peer assessment I I think. |
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| Nick |
Course, to make this valid, you'd have to cut his other leg and use regular honey. And a third one with no honey, and possibly the last one, and use, Bovril. |
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| Jamanda |
Exactly 
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| TheGrange |
you mean you haven’t heard of the bovril healing qualities for empty tummy ache .. u smear it on toast liberally and devour well yes, but i would imagine any honey would have done equally as good a job it was the one we were directed too.. it worked so we stuck with it
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| dpack |
choosing the correct wriggler must be important ,some go for healthy flesh rather than just the necrotic bits
back to honey maybe some plant honies should be avoided and ones from plants with known wound healing properties investigated mrsa is nasty in modern terms but pre fungal derived antibiotics such infections were common and some of the ways of treating them were very effective i have a personal hatred of staphs cos one tried to kill me ,it turned its toes up to a wicked cocktail including ventamycin (spp?)which isnt nice good job done bradford royal i dont think honey will work once the infection is in the circulatory system but it does have a place in medicine ace as a 10%oral rehydration/sugar boost drench |
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| cab |
Oddly cheap:
Taking staff or studentship costs into consideration, ain't much left from 28k. |
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| dpack |
good research can be cheap | ||||||
| Nick |
It's UWIC. They live in caves and forage on the Bristol Channel for whelks for dinner. | ||||||
| dpack |
not healthy forage east of ilfracombe imho | ||||||
| wellington womble |
killing MRSA is easy. It's not killing the patient as well that's the hard bit. | ||||||
| dpack |
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| Bodrighy |
Unless there has been a huge change I wouldn't eat anything that came out of the Bristol Channel. I have vivid memories of swimming in it off Barry as a kid and watching little brown (and some not so little) objects floating past and having to wash the oil off after swimming... Pete |
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| towerhill |
I saw a documentary a few years ago based on research done in Russian hospitals during the cold war when western anti bacterial drugs were not available.
They were growing cultures from the bacteria found in the sewerage from the hospitals. They found that there was always a another bacteria around which would attack THAT HOSPITALS own variant of MRSA etc. Basically they were thinking along the lines of "if it lives then something will eat it". They made up sprays based on these cultures and used them as a bespoke antibacterial agent with a lot of success. I think they called these friendly bacteria Macrophages. |
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| Jamanda |
Macrophages are white blood cells which engulf and digest interlopers. I've got a really cool video clip of one at work, I'll see if I can attach it. | ||||||
| Nick |
I used to make mice that made a poison specific to Staphs in their milk. Such things abound in nature, it's merely the finding, producing, harvesting and purifying of them which throws the odd spanner in the works. | ||||||
| dpack |
like honey 
do the research team have a budget for fly collection ? |
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| cab |
Bacteriophage. Viruses that attack bacteria. They played with it for yonks in the USSR, never with as much success as their propoganda machine claimed. Its been revisited periodically over the years but its never really worked well in application. |
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| dpack |
well tried like honey is a good place to start | ||||||
| moonwind |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leptospermum_scoparium |
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| sean |
Yadda yadda yadda. It all comes back to one bloke saying that there's something amazing in manuka honey and he can't tell what it is but he can measure it so that people can charge a premium for it. Snake oil of the highest quality. |
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| Tavascarow |
From Wiki
So save your money & instead of buying manuka (leptospermum) honey take a spoonfull of local honey in a cup of leptospermum leaf tea instead. I've got 50 of them in my polytunnel if anyone wants any?
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| moonwind |
My husband had deep vein thrombosis and the treatment left him with awful leg ulcers which unfortunately plague him from time to time.
When the ulcers appear he bathes his leg in sea salt and allows the area to dry and then dresses the wound with Manuka honey. All WITH his GPs blessing, as Manuka honey is already used in some hospitals. The only time he takes prescription drugs is if the leg gets an infection (from his still working even though he is past official retirment age). He once allowed the nurse at the surgery to use traditional dressings and rather than heal the leg it made matters worse and he went back to the salt wash and manuka dressing. It has not let him down yet. I am so glad we were not so sceptical that we did not try this honey after it was recommended to us must be five years ago now. He did try some local honey from a lovely couple who run their honey and other products from their own beehives they do some live products with Bee venom in and are very knowledgable about their subject, BUT alas the honey does NOT have the same properties as the Manuka. The only thing to be wary about with Manuka Honey is that you get it from accredited sources. Have to stand up for the product after it has been very well tried and tested here with the GPs approval too! |
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| random |
I think all honeys have these properties not just manuka
I love this line from that article
I've tasted manuka honey and it is horrible, how wonderful for the NZ beekeepers that a badly tasting honey has such wonderful properties and is therefore a marketable commodity... /cynical mode off |
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| moonwind |
Wouldn't want to eat it, always buy British honey (local when available) for eating, but the Manuka really works on ulcers in the ointment form. Isn't honey a wonderful thing? I hope the bee population can be saved from the problems that have claimed so many. Life really needs bees in every Country. |
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| TheGrange |
ok... so how much and where do i plant? |
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| BahamaMama |
Yup - friends brought some back for me from a holiday in NZ, it was vile. |
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| Tavascarow |
They are ericaceous so need an acid soil or container grown. Sheltered away from the biting east wind plant with a south or southwest aspect for best. About the same hardiness as callistemon (bottle brush). Will have to weigh one to see how much to post, I'll PM you. 
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| Chez |
Ordinary honey worked on my Grandmamma's leg ulcer. | ||||||
| wellington womble |
I'd be interested to know which hospitals are using it. | ||||||
| moonwind |
http://www.thehealthierlife.co.uk/natural-health-articles/immunity/manuka-honey-super-bugs-00622.html http://www.naturalnews.com/019588.html http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2009/01/video-doctors-use-honey-to-save-mans.html http://www.nzherald.co.nz/hospitals/news/article.cfm?c_id=500846&objectid=10566663 http://tahilla.typepad.com/mrsawatch/mrsa_wounds_honey/index.html
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/lifestyle/health_and_beauty/health_and_beauty_feature/s/1009/1009431_could_honey_beat_mrsa.html http://www.canceractive.com/page.php?n=1614 There are many links from users and trials of manuka honey, a few are above. I have just learned something new regarding its use within the Cancer treatment centres. From the reading I have done on the product it is something within the New Zealand environment that gives Manuka honey its special properties. Agree with the posters who say the honey does not taste too good, maybe that is why it works in the health world. Must have something going for it it's been around a long time now and I don't think it is meant to compete with our own honeys, it is different and has different uses. |
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| moonwind |
Bit from the nursing times, makes interesting reading, about honey in general and manuka honey.
http://www.nursingtimes.net/using-honey-to-inhibit-wound-pathogens/527195.article |
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| Tavascarow |
THIS amazes me & I know of one woman in Somerset who suffers & treats with bee stings & it makes a lot of difference.
Fascinating little creatures.
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| Jamanda |
That is interesting! I'd heard of bee stings alleviating arthritis but not MS. | ||||||
| TheGrange |
i wonder if it would work with equines, not that i'm in any hurry to try it 
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| moonwind |
Seems so:- http://www.honeybalm.com/product/13 don't know if there are any UK suppliers, there must be I am sure. |
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| moonwind |
Welsh Bee Venom products, and creams onlineThese people are very nice and knowledgable about their products.We met them at a show in Carmarthen a few years back and have used quite a few of their products. Their eating honey is pretty darn tasty too. http://www.beeliefbotanics.com/ |
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| TheGrange |
oo very interesting, i wonder how successful it is | ||||||
| Fee |
Interesting, I was recommended manuka honey for psoriasis in the pub a while back, the woman swore by it.
Might have to give it a try seen as my psoriasis is coming straight back again 
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| Jamanda |
Why don't you try regular honey first Fee? If it does work for you you'll save a good few quid. | ||||||
| Nick |
Or Marmite. *Has* to be good for something. | ||||||
| sean |
I thought you'd recommended Bovril earlier. Maybe Fee could run a trial? Bovril on one leg and Marmite on the other. | ||||||
| Nick |
I don't want to waste Bovril. I like it. Fee's leg is of less concern to me. | ||||||
| sean |
I was assuming that she'd buy her own Bovril. Or is Bovril that you've touched more effective as a healing agent? | ||||||
| sean |
Ideally I suppose that Fee shouldn't know which leg has which smeared on it. And the smearers shouldn't know what they're smearing. | ||||||
| Fee |
This is a very wrong conversation to drop in at the end of, at such a time of night on the day of Fri
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| Ginkotree |
When I first started nursing 30+ years ago we used to use honey on sores and wounds and it was wonderful, it helped with granulation and forming new skin.It came in a sterile flat tin ,honeytulle, gauze soaked in honey.
I was told that the NZ people do not like manuka and are delighted that we think it is so marvelous, and are happy to ship it off to us. I am sure it is good but know that Local is good too and tastes a whole lot better |
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| moonwind |
Just been looking on Tesco website and needed some honey (eating honey). Got the squeezy honey we use for topping Ice Cream BUT then looked for some decent set honey. Loads of choices as long as you want them from around the globe or at best EU and other non EU Countries blends. I specifically looked for some British honey and the store does not stock one British honey product. Maybe one of the DS honey producers would like to pen a letter to Tesco HQ (Terry Leahy) and enquire why they do not stock British honey and if there is a problem getting British honey in enough quantity for them to stock it. It seems every Country but our own can supply, my biggest question is why. Most DSers seem very Patriotic which is great, but maybe the time has come to act and write to supermarkets who usually say they support local markets and ask them why not. Maybe they cannot get enough honey from our Country BUT even if they could only get small amounts the choice should be there. Maybe there is a market there waiting to be had. I wrote to Terry Leahy once with a complaint, and found him very good and he did sort out the problem, so rather than words when other Countries products are to the fore of our own get motivated and write asking questions? Hope someone who knows about honey products takes up the challenge as would love to know the reason why British is not on the shelves, if there really is a problem then knowing what it is is the beginning of solving it. |
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| Ginkotree |
I think you have some interesting points here .I do not shop ever in Tescos, but my understanding is that if a big supermarket sells your product it can actually ruin your buisiness..you loose all your small outlets to satisfy demand and they can also set the price for your goods...poor bees having to produce by demand... I have a friend that said that during the war Gales Honey really expanded as they put hives everywhere to meet our islands demands. With the problems that bees are having at the moment bee farms will be under pressure to keep thier bees alive let alone supplying Tescos. |
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| jocorless |
The reason why the big supermarkets very rarely stock British Honey is that the majority of producers in this country are small scale producers who sell their excess crops through small scale means - word of mouth or through local shops/markets
There are about 4 or 5 big Honey Farmers and they do supply the big boys but thats about all |
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| goosey |
I bought some "English Wildflower Honey" by Rowse last year, it came from hives on Salisbury Plain according to the label.
I bought it in Waitrose. When I read moonwind's post, I looked up rowsehoney.co.uk and as well as all the foreign stuff, they sell Scottish Honey, and English Honey, have a look. I have not seen them on the shelves this year. I don't go in Tesco much either, but I will do as you ask moonwind, because on several counts, it is important for shops to sell our own food. I want to have my own hives too. |
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| moonwind |
Pity a Co-op of Beekeepers couldn't get together in a similar way that some of the DSers have got together to sell meat online.
I would definitely buy honey if the seller was reasonably priced (not cheap but reasonable). If I see local honey available I can never resist, also when we ever get to get away from a short break always come back with pots of local produce. The Supermarkets are the ones who say they support local so they should supply even if the honey (in this instance) is in short supply and only has a little shelf that is filled as and when, in fact it wouldn't hurt the Supermarkets to allow some local producers to have a small area within the shops where they can sell their own products, then the supermarkets could really say they support the small local producers! Won't hold my breath though, far too much integrity for them probably
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| moonwind |
I wonder if the Salisbury Plain honey had essence of tank! LOL My grandfather was an avid beekeeper back in the 50's remember him all dressed up in the old fashioned gear. Hope you get your hives too and they go well for you. You are braver than me! I just like the products of the bee and find it fascinating. |
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| goosey |
Thanks
I reay feel the same way as you about English food,I find waitrose better than most. |
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| Tavascarow |
We have just had the two worst summers in living memory which is one of the reasons British honey is scarce. I think you will find the OSR is sold in reasonable quantity in the supermarkets but because of its poor quality it is sold in the cheap blended & creamed honeys. My question would be why would I want to sell my honey to a Company like Te**o who want all the profit for themselves when I have no problem selling it locally anyway. My ethos is to take buisness from Te**o not share with them.
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| Tavascarow |
Sorry my last post sounded a little dismissive.
Let out the chooks & had another coffee. Whilst pondering. Its a great idea but there aren't enough (if any) beekeepers here with enough colonies to make a buisness. Most are only running 1 or 2, I'm only currently running 3. When I used to work 15 I still had no trouble shifting the honey locally. Also Britain doesn't have enough distinct single source honey apart from Heather honey & (Spit) oil seed rape. If there were unique geographic crops then marketing would be so much easier as flavours would vary more but still be distinct & the honey connoisseurs would know that say Cornish ling honey is distinct to say London lime honey. Unfortunately apart from Heather & O*R honey the rest of the flora of the UK is to varied to label as such. Although to me that's what makes it special but it does mean that you can only sell it as mixed flower honey Unfortunately as to Te**o they want a uniform product that will taste the same not only jar to jar but year to year. Rowse will buy honey in bulk & blend it to the supermarkets taste (After pasteurising & micro filtration) but that to me defeats the object.
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| Fee |
I haven't shopped in Tesco for some time, but there used to be a good selection of British honeys IIRC. I buy local honey from my local butcher And usually come back with honey from travels too!
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| goosey |
There was no offence taken at all
It was late last night and I thought, if people here want it, and we've got it....? I don't go to T.... either probably for same reasons as you, and more, but equally, I imagine some ppl don't have a choice, busy life, work, kids etc and that's the only place handy now small shops have shut. Why shouldn't they get what they want,I thought. Anyway, I also realise I am very new here and a lot of topics/questions come up repeatedly So I have started reading back through old posts in between work. Thanks for putting up with me I hadn't known, that last autumn, people asked for honey etc here.
Thanks for your explanation re honey production, I am glad to learn. I'm assembling a TBH later, made of boards from base of the spare bed- hope it keeps me out of trouble 
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| moonwind |
Thanks for the explanation Tav, it is such a shame that British hives have had so many problems, let's hope we get a good year for the buzzies this time and that the hives can stay healthy.
As Goosey says there is obviously a demand for small producer products, in this case honey, but I daresay the demand is there for small producer other items, as the meat producers found out i.e meat in a box scheme. I wonder if that is still a sustainable venture? Updates anyone? If you think about it, I am sure I am not the only person on here and on similar forums that would buy products from small producers, as you say because the small producers (and I mean small not the commercial idea of small!) get a bum deal in the main. If an internet selling area could be shared by such small producers I am sure people would buy. Example:- You sell me 4 off honey (set, natural runny, whatever) You charge for the time, costs of suitable packaging and postage. OK The supermarkets will always have you on cost of course, BUT there are people who would rather order British (not wider EU) and actually really support our own producers (small ones). Look at the dairy industry and how the farms are getting huge, well I would rather by from Giles down the road who has a small herd and tries to keep only the amount of animals on his/her small farm as that size was "really" suitable for to keep the animals happy .. Of course with dairy products they have not got the opportunities other products have because of all the regulations from the "scare us silly" people. Maybe as well as honey, jams, pickles and other home produced products could also belong to such a Co-op scheme (just need to chat up someone like Jema to enquire as to the "how to's") If regulated to small scale producers it would surely have a market and allow everyone to obtain home produced products. I for one would buy your honey as I am biased when it comes to Cornwall as you know .
Always beats me why in the area I live no such scheme exists and there are some lovely products around. I think British producers do not get together enough, as say the French producers do. So, from Manuka honey (in ointment form for hubby's legs applied to the ulcer NOT eaten!) which is marvellous for him, to our own British honeys for their uses the thread has been an eye opener. Small producers could outsmart some of the supermarket trade and help local jobs in the courier industry too. I do lots of pickles, jams etc in season and mainly using home grown products from here (as you last year disaster due to the tomatoes all rotting with lack of sunshine!), but am sure there must be loads of people here and on other forums that could group. Is it possible? |
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| Ginkotree |
I remember the good old days going shopping, all the prams lined up outside the local co-op where local producers used to sell thier own produce and an ironmongers where you weighed the nails and counted out hooks and eyes into paper bags. I have seen a couple of Co-ops still operating like this in the far out places around here but mostley this type of sales happen at a farmers market now, not in a purpose built shop.
The new market in Carmarthen is so modern with its high glass walls that my friend could not sell there anymore, all her friut and veg wilted and she could not even give it away, a large light airey , cool building has given way to modern design that does not work. Its been harder to get hold of local honey for some time round here. |
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| moonwind |
We are in the same area and I agree with you about the new market. It is a mini version of the market at St Austell, same layout but in a building too small for purpose. Who wants debenhams anyway the old mart in Fair Lane alongside the old stall market hall were great. I hope the new pizza hut coming to the new shopping area does not mean we lose Get Stuffed Pizza shop, had a lovely homemade pizza there tonight as a treat. I do like to go into Sheffield House? the near as possible these days ironmongers up by the tourist centre (you know - the one thats hardly ever open LOL) Won't ask you d.o.b but do you remember the tins of broken bisuits, tins had perspex front so you could see the lovely bikkies inside and just had to have a quarter! Happy days, but like you I am very surprised at the LACK of availability of home grown produce from our area. |
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| Ginkotree |
Yes, I remeber the broken biscuits, my nan would buy a box as a treat ..
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| Kanga |
Manuka honey for woundsMoonwind, I read your post of 21st May with great interest as my 95-year-old mother has a leg ulcer. She eats a jar of Manuka honey (maybe more!) every week and when she got the ulcer she wondered if she should put a bit on the ulcer but was afraid that it might do more harm than good. Since then it has become infected and for some weeks now, nurses have been treating it with iodine, etc but it's not getting any better and she says it is very painful. You seemed to indicate that your husband only used honey on his ulcer when it wasn't infected. I found a link for manukahoney.co.uk - Meloderm 100% Irradiated UMF 16+ active Manuka Honey. Is that the sort your husband uses and do you think it would do any harm putting it on her infected ulcer? |
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| goosey |
I hope the ulcer on your mother's leg clears up soon kanga, and that the others here can help. | ||||||
| Kanga |
Thanks goosey, so do I. It's really getting her down. She suffers from other painful complaints as well but if this one could be made to go she'd be much happier. | ||||||
| yummersetter |
tough on the bees though, but perhaps Mrs Baggins' strain could become very useful |