| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| Treacodactyl |
New Bird flu case in Suffolkhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7091284.stmIdentified as H5 at the moment. Near Diss or the Norfolk and Suffolk border, found in Turkeys. |
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| fenwoman |
I read that with sheer dismay. What is happening to livestock in this country what with bluetongue, foot and mouth and now this. Is this a factory farm like BM? | ||||
| dougal |
News24 has called it a Free Range poultry farm. Turkeys, Geese and Ducks. I'm a bit concerned that (as per Mr Oddie & Autumnwatch) the strong winds from the North over the last few days have brought many migrating waterfowl from the Arctic - which might suggest that there may be other cases scattered all over the place. I'd be astonished if this was connected with Hungary. Accordingly, I'd suggest that this would be a very good time to minimise exposure to contact (and prevent any water-sharing) with wild birds. And not just in and around East Anglia. Until the situation becomes clearer. |
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| Cho-ku-ri |
Do you think they are trying to develop a bird flu vaccine at Pirbright? They really ought not step outside for a cigarette without decontaminating. F&M, Blue Tongue, and now this. 
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| fenwoman |
I've been reading the Yahoo news about it. What makes me laugh is the statement from DEFRA that once everything has been culled, they are confident the outbreak can be contained. Well what a stupid thing to say. If the disease is spread by wild birds, are they going to throw a big net over east anglia to prevent those wild birds from flying about in the sky over Britain? If not, how will they contain it?
That's if it is spread by wild birds at all. There has been some doubt expressed on that. Why are there not hundreds of wild birds falling dead out of the sky with the disease? Why are the fields, roads, and footpaths not littered with little feathery flu'ey carcasses? |
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| Treacodactyl |
I thought wild birds could carry the disease but not succumb to it as badly as some domesticated fowl? But I agree, if DEFRA are confident they can contain the 'flu then it does suggest they aren't telling the truth or they know where it's likely to have come from. 
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| dougal |
Ducks can carry the disease and relatively rarely succumb to it.
It isn't the only way it can be spread, but there's no sensible denial that Bird flu *can* be spread by migrating birds, particularly waterfowl. Today's Times reports a nearby lake used by migratory birds. Have you ever noticed how rarely you see dead wild birds anyway? They're small, get eaten, decompose quickly... hence its the bigger ones, like swans, that get noticed more often. Strange thing is the difficulty they seem to be having (length of time) to id what they are dealing with... |
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| moonwind |
Just very convenient that all the diseases that have hit the farming industry hardest seem to be in the area designated for the most number of new house building programmes. | ||||
| Behemoth |
Reaches for foil hat. | ||||
| Treacodactyl |
I was just thinking of the extra benefit of foil loft insulation, not just the reduction in heat loss but it helps stop the voices. 
Seriously though, some of the farmers directly affected by F&M this year seem to be ok financially however some worst affected seem to be distant hill farmers where I can't see huge housing developments being built. |
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| moonwind |
Like to take all aspects into consideration, better than being herded or becoming narrow minded, tends to make some folk become bitchy or think that their views are the only views. | ||||
| Behemoth |
And the other aspects are? | ||||
| moonwind |
Unless the plans are to have skyscrapers everywhere it seems there will be a need to reduce land currently used for agriculture
I refer you as a starting point to a gov document. http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/housing/pdf/153193 You can do as much, or as little research as you wish once you have pondered the numbers of housing areas, and new towns etc., and come up with your own conclusions. For comparison this link to the defra site is interesting if you open in another tab and look at the areas that are currently restricted. http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/int-trde/cins/2007/pdf/cin07349-trademap061107.pdf Whatever anyone concludes (although it is doubtful you could conclude anything at this stage in the plans) you cannot argue that land currently farmed will go under to the planned housing developments. If that has led to some people becoming cynical about diseases and restrictions when the worst affected, and restricted for normal trading purposes, areas are the very same areas that will be most affected by planned major developments then so be it. Not suggesting that ALL farming will stop in the areas, but common sense says that after being attacked from every which way there will be quite a few who throw in the towel and see development options as a far better way to make some money. The downside, of course, is that once the land has been built on that is another piece of land gone forever. In 2004 another piece of legislation came about which would, in theory, allow compulsory purchase to take place as in the case when Milton Keynes "earmarked" land was not voluntarily given up. http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2004/20040005.htm |
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| Behemoth |
So the Government is engaged in a conspiracy to deliberately infect certain agricultural animal populations, presumably in abid to put those farmers in that area out of business? The land would be sold to??? Unless it's reclassified the land would still be agricutural so of no use to builders. So now they would need to
be some sort of change of use through the planning regime so the land can be reclassified for development and large numbers of houses built. Why not just do it through the planning process, as can be done at the moment? As for skyscrapers, yes we are getting them. These are under way here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/4950012.stm |
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| Behemoth |
So putting Government conspiracies aside for the moment. What other aspects are there? |
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| Northern_Lad |
I didn't think you were allowed to build anything in Leeds unless it was a city-centre professional appartment complex?
Anyway, back to the coughing budgies... |
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| Behemoth |
In the middle yes, lots of flats, elswhere any patch of grass that can be built on is getting an 'exciting new development' and not a hint of bird flu. *cough* Has the strain beenn identified yet? |
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| Treacodactyl |
Perhaps a more likely conspiracy theory might be the big oil companies getting rid of agriculture so they can use the land for bio-fuels...
I doubt it would be the government as they would have to be competent to do so and prevent leaks, something they don't seem very good at. 
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| Northern_Lad |
Oil companies aren't much good at preventing leaks either, just of a different nature. | ||||
| Behemoth |
No need for viruses then. |
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| Frewen |
H5N1 confirmed after suspicions on Sunday - culling started | ||||
| Penny |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7092988.stm
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| Mrs Fiddlesticks |
have read things like this in the past and seeing that the BBC have an article on it I thought I'd toss this in to the mix...
its not the wild birds' fault |
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| Cho-ku-ri |
Obviously intensive animal keeping will help the spread of diseases. Just the same as intensive human populations will help this same disease mutate and spread to us. It is a bit obvious, but what is a country so grossly overpopulated like ours to do? | ||||
| moonwind |
There was a lot of misery then, not that some people would be able to grasp that, and care even less. Still as said you can only point people toward researching for themselves, the rest is up to them, a free Country at least for now. I do not intend to get into a sock puppet style posting with someone who does not like anyone posting something that may be controversial or thought provoking. I hadn't realised that Leeds was part of east Anglia until this thread though 
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| Contadino |
Hmmm....
Birds being bought in from the Czech Republic, where H5N1 cases have been found. Birds mingling with wild birds at a lake. Obvious! It's those pesky wild birds again! Time for every self-respecting toff to don tweeds and hip-flask and blow as many out of the air as possible. http://www.guardian.co.uk/birdflu/story/0,,2210517,00.html |
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| Cho-ku-ri |
Release the cats......... | ||||
| Cho-ku-ri |
I was not a fan of set-a-side, but with it being wiped out of the countryside overnight due to a E.U decision, perhaps the wild bird population has starting to get so hungry, they have been entering free range enclosures more to 'steal' their food thus making disease transmit ion easier  
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| Behemoth |
You have posted anything which could be suggested as a link between the two apart from the observation that infections of agricultural animals occurs in the countryside and building of new additional towns etc takes place in open brownfield or greenfield sites. We don't farm in cities and apart from vertical and infill additional new development over existing cities would not resolve our housing 'problems'. I don't mind controversy or thought provoking when it's suported by a salient argument. You haven't presented that. It might be the Lizard people - look it up. The world is not east anglia. |
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| fenwoman |
A course it is silly boy 
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| Cho-ku-ri |
"Aint East Anglia Abroad?" Jade Goody Big Brother.
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| moonwind |
Last I heard it might as well be
Anyhow it's East Angla or Garrut Gruncher land ! http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:PxcASPy1pewJ:www.commonpurpose.org.uk/home/civilsociety/hsw/rural.aspx+common+purpose+agriculture+uk&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=uk Can't access this page apart from the cached version, wondered if anyone here could have more success at it. |
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| milkmaid |
the second farm came back positive today ,one of the dangerous contact farms | ||||
| Treacodactyl |
From the BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7102298.stm
Looks like the second farm is operated by the same people. |
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| dougal |
The same staff work(ed) at both farms. Hence not totally unexpected. |
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| milkmaid |
i know ,still one can hope
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