| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| tahir |
Norway to kill 25% of its wolvesBy Alex Kirby BBC News website environment correspondentThe Norwegian government has decided to kill five of the country's grey wolves - a quarter of the entire population. It says the decision is necessary to protect domestic livestock, but one campaign group has condemned the cull. WWF-Norway says two wolves have been shot already, one of them from a pack which has not been targeted and which it fears may now not manage to survive. Wolves are protected in Norway, and are listed as critically endangered, and WWF says many people oppose the cull. The decision to kill five animals out of the 20 remaining in Norway was taken by the nature directorate, which advises the government. WWF-Norway is calling for an immediate halt to the hunt. Survival 'at risk' Its head, Rasmus Hansson, said: "If the Norwegian environment minister does not stop this hunt, he will have the dubious honour of allowing the regular hunting of a nationally endangered species. "The culling of 20-30% of a population this size is a serious threat to the survival of this species in Norway. "This practice is contrary to internationally accepted standards for wildlife management. No other country that I know of has such an aggressive policy towards its wolves." The Norwegian parliament decided last May the country should sustain at least three family packs of wolves. Packs can range in size from two adults to 10 or more animals covering several generations. WWF says the current hunt will reduce the number of packs to two at most. Mr Hansson told the BBC: "One wolf from the pack to be culled was shot on 15 January, and another female from a different pack on 21 January. "We don't know the exact size of the targeted pack, because we don't know whether it produced any cubs last summer. If it did, they will be left orphaned. Steady decline "Now, in all likelihood, by killing the wrong animal they've ruined another pack. The animal was an alpha female, so breeding may be affected and the pack could dissolve." WWF says there were an estimated 50-80 wolves in the southern part of Norway and Sweden in 2001, consisting of several families. That year Norway approved the culling of eight out of its 25 wolves, leaving 20 today, because the target was not met. A recent study of the wider Scandinavian wolf population concluded there were 120 at the most. Mr Hansson said: "There is a serious risk of genetic degradation in this population because of its small size. A genetically healthy population... should have at least 800 individuals." He told the BBC: "The cull is meant to protect sheep. Sheep farming occupies 90% of Norway's territory. "We have 250-300,000 moose and 30,000 reindeer. In that perspective 800 wolves shouldn't be too many, though we've never suggested it - it's just a biological fact." Story from BBC NEWS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/sci/tech/4194963.stm Published: 2005/01/21 17:28:40 GMT |
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| jema |
5 out of 20  Seems utterly criminal in these so called enlightened days.
jema |
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| tahir |
There must be another side to this but it does seem shocking | ||||||
| Gertie |
What, 20 wolves are of great concern to a country the size of Norway?
As you say, Tahir, there is more going on that we are aware, I just think it a shame, guess I wouldn't be saying that if they were encroaching on my territory. Norway isn't a tiny region, though. |
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| tahir |
Looks like they've been doing it for a while:
Sunday, 11 February, 2001, 20:46 GMT Snow hampers Norway wolf cull A heavily-criticised cull of Norwegian grey wolves has begun in south-east Norway, amid fierce protests from environmentalists and alleged death threats to hunters. I will stay here for as long as it takes ... [we are] determined to stop a massacre A group of 23 hunters plan to kill a pack of nine wolves, out of the Scandinavian population of 100, which are said to have killed large numbers of sheep. Their first day of hunting was hampered by bad weather and no wolves were spotted. The species is endangered in Europe but the Norwegian authorities have given hunters until April to kill the animals, with helicopter back-up if necessary. Conservationists have denounced the cull and the hunters, travelling on skis and snowmobiles and armed with rifles and shotguns, were confronted by anti-hunt protesters who had camped out in the forest nearby. The hunters took no notice and maintain they will stay out in the forests for a week at a time, although protesters say they will not go home until the hunt is over, despite temperatures as low as -30°C (-22°F). "I will stay here for as long as it takes," declared Svein Sorli, 27, who said he was "determined to stop a massacre." Environmentalists hope a court on Tuesday will rule the hunt illegal. Telephone threats "The hunters have received anonymous telephone threats," said Svein Norberg, spokesman of the Directorate of Nature Management which is overseeing the cull. On Sunday, hunters unrolled almost 3km (two miles) of bright yellow and red tape in the pine forests, hoping to direct the wolves towards sharp-shooters. The authorities in neighbouring Sweden, which co-operates with Norway to manage the wolf population along the common border, are vehemently opposed to the plan. Threat to locals But the Norwegian Government says wolf packs are growing too fast and blames them for killing more than 600 sheep last year in the area around Koppang, 200km (125 miles) north of the capital, Oslo. It is a difficult job - wolves are smart animals and have good instincts Lead hunter Leonhard Mikalsen It says the wolves in question must be shot because they have moved into a valley outside the zone designated for them. "The wolf has been at our nurseries, it's been in our barns, it kills livestock right up to our houses and it is undermining deer hunting," said Erling Myhre, mayor of nearby Rendalen. The identities of most marksmen have been kept secret because of fears for their safety. Numbers row Wolves were hunted to near extinction in southern Scandinavia until a hunting ban was imposed in the 1970s. The Norwegian authorities, whose original plans to kill 20 wolves were scaled down amid public outcry, say there are now about 12 families, or 120 wolves, in the area. The Worldwide Fund for Nature (WWF) recently put at between 51 and 80 the number of wolves in the area, far short of the 500 it says are necessary for stocks to be viable. |
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| Treacodactyl |
So, would we accept wolves being introduced in this country? | ||||||
| jema |
that's the rub isn't it 
jema |
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| sean |
As long as they're confined to Swindon I don't have a problem with it. | ||||||
| Lloyd |
I'd shoot the B*****d on sight!.....what good does it do to the environment?..apart from killing weak or sick animals. | ||||||
| Gertie |
Having said it is a shame about the Norwegian Wolves - the question of whether we would want Wolves in the UK roaming wild is an interesting debate.
Don't they have enclosured wolves in Scotland? I remember years ago going to a course on animal behaviour and the guy there had some photographs of a group that he had been researching. |
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| Lloyd |
Almost four years on, I wonder what the Norwegian wolf population looks like now. | ||||||
| Calli |
Smaller?
Now in Sweden...hope my saluki in waiting not involved in this spread to Sweden? |
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| Lloyd |
No, he's still waiting. | ||||||
| Slim |
they're finally returning to my part of the country, hot on the tails of the mountain lions. | ||||||
| Silas |
Where is erikt? | ||||||
| dpack |
i will have a waif | ||||||
| Mutton |
Predators - isn't this what live in the field with the flock guard dogs are used for in the US - and probably Eastern Europe as well. | ||||||
| mihto |
Better ask where mihto is 
This is, after all, up my lane. Yes we have been killing (taking out) wolves over some years. Not many have been killed legally. More have been taken out quietly and highly illegally by farmers or run over by cars/trains. Norway is a large country. The wolwes are concentrated in a rather small area which borders on Sweden. As long as they are in their designed area they are left in peace. There are no fences, however, and a wolf pack needs space. Together with bears, wolverines and lynx they do enormous damage to our sheep and sometimes cattle. They are such a menace in some areas that sheep farmers are not allowed to put their animals on summer grazing for animal welfare reason. Many farmers have packed in and stopped farming. Sweden is about to start proper license hunting, btw. The wolf population is growing in Scandinavia. That said I'm in two minds over the problem. Wolves are fantastic animals and they certainly belong to our forests. I'm grateful that those desicions are not mine to make. |
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| dpack |
you have wolverines ? | ||||||
| mihto |
Oh yes. Way too many. They are horrible predators but are protected in many areas even so. In my area they are limited to a few litters a year. When too many shep are lost, some animals are taken out. If they eat deer or reindeer, they are left alone. Wolverines kill without needing food. They are bloodthirsty and can ravage a sheep flock. They damage as many as they kill. Our bears mosly eat vegetarian and they are also left alone untill they go for livestock. We have had only one stray into my area within the last 50 years. Lynxes are all over the country and they certainly kill sheep but in lesser numbers. They are also hunted when they become too numerous. |
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| dpack |
wolverines have a reputation to keep up with ,ferrets are bad but a 25kg weasle is a worrything thought | ||||||
| Slim |
once they bite, they don't let go |
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| vegplot |
Solution is simple, don't have sheep. Buy Welsh or British instead, we've already killed all our large predators that go for sheep (except two legged rats who hunt at night). |
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| mihto |
Many people would agree with you. None of those would be farmers. You see, vegplot, we have all this luscious mountain grass which would never be used without grazing sheep. So many farmers have given up over the last 10 years only. Those still left have good sheepsheds, good breeding sheep and fantastic grazing as well as adoring customers who love our tasty mutton. Some farmesrs ask for wolves to be caught in the mountains and be released in the huge forests surrounding Oslo. Maybe the city people would be less supportive of predators if they risked their little dogs being devoured on a Sunday outing? |
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| Slim |
I would've loved that when I was there! 
I'm probably not your average though 
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| mihto |
I hope not!
Honestly, we have the same discussion as you: Furious farmers competing with city-slickers. There is no win-win solution on the livestock/predator problem except telling farmes to totally move out of certain areas. The amount of wildlife is thinly spread in Norway due to a limited supply of winter food. To make a proper fenced-in game park is neigh impossible. Once wolves/bears/lynxes/wolverines are left alone they will thrive and spread in the nature reserve areas. Without domestic stock they would eat elk, roe deer and reindeer. At the edges of their designated areas the confrontation with the farmers would start all over. Not kidding about dead dogs, Slim. Only this week a hunting dog was killed by wolves while chasing an elk. The farmers/hunters are livid by now and would shoot every wolf at sight. |
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| Slim |
Oh I know you're not, a Canadian girl was recently killed by coyotes.
And I've lost plenty of cats to coyotes/fisher cats, but I still think healthy forests need predators |
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| mihto |
Totally agree in principle. Like you we have enormous forested areas (in the north we are part of the tundra and further south the Swedish/Finish forests bordering us stretches all the way through Russia to the Pacific Ocean) and not every forest can house the larger predators. Our discussion is on where they are allowed to live. If they had stayed in certain areas there would be no problem. We have breeding stock entering from Sweden/Finland. There they are selling the hunting rights to bears and wolves for a very high price. When we shoot the sheep-eating animals we get lambasted all over the newspapers. *goes away to sulk. My innocent little country never did nothing wrong* |
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| Slim |
Then why have I eaten whale there?
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| mihto |
what is wrong with eating whale?
see washing of towel thread
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| Slim |
well, mountain lions are returning here, which will probably turn into a big hub-bub, as they are rumored to eat two-legged prey as well as four-legged | ||||||
| random |
The wolves on the Swedish side of the border are about to be culled too
http://www.thelocal.se/23620/20091203/
It seems a real shame, but then it's not my back yard they're coming into nor my livestock or pets that are being killed. |
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| Mutton |
So are guardian dogs out in the fields with the sheep used in Scandanavia as well as the US? | ||||||
| mihto |
Our sheep do not graze on fields in summer. They are let loose in the mountains and spread out over a vast area. Shepherding is very difficult. In places where it has been tried animals have been killed even so. Guard dogs do help somewhat, but is not the answer to the problem. Our farms are often small. All fields are harvested for winter fodder, and the farmers are totally dependent on mountain grazing. This is a very old way of life. If the sheep must be contained on home grazing, most farmers would be forced to stop farming. |
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| jamanda |
same system as the Lake district and Dartmoor here. I suppose those farmers weren't be too chuffed if wolves were released again.
They are still wild in Arbruzzo in Italy too, but in a nature reserve type region if I remember rightly. |
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| madcat |
I do not want to see wolves here and I sympathise with the Norwegian farmers who wish to control wolves.In the end its all down to survival and Im the animal that wants to survive and I eat sheep.I do buy my meat so the producer gets paid,probably not enough but thats a whole different debate | ||||||
| Mutton |
Further curiosity, because I like to understand how things came to be. In previous centuries, before labour became so relatively expensive, would there have been many more shepherds available? Just remember seeing a documentary about possibly Romania, where the herds were taken into the mountains in summer, but were escorted and at night herded together, ring of blokes, fires, dogs. They were guarding against bears as well. |
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| mihto |
Oh yes. Children were often used for this kind of work. How they fared the tales do not tell. I would not have my 8-10 year old child protecting my flock against predators! We have tried shepherding and it does work to some extent. The losses are smaller and other problems like fly strike, plant poisoning and tick borne diseases are more eaily detected. The cost is prohibitive, however. If predators are really going for the sheep a human presence does not deter them. Then guns are needed, and we are looking at a different situation. Armed shepherds in our mountains may not be acceptable to the public. Then the taking out of offending animals may be an easier option. |
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| dpack |
that was the way here when there was a pennine flock
last local wolf (apart from domestic ones )was shot in the 16th centuary they dont mix well with pastoralism but they are nice critters when you know them as family ,i used to walk one in south london with my half and half ,very polite animals if trained from pups |
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| Mutton |
Child labour - back when cannons were much more likely to blow up, the large siege pieces were loaded by the highly trained adults but fired by the trainee child/teenage apprentice - more expendable. Interesting about the possible concern about armed shepherds. In the UK I would assume that many of the passing farmer's in their landrovers have a shotgun in with them. I guess wolf shooting is more of a rifle job, or would a shotgun do in an emergency? (Again just curiosity) |
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| crofter |
I'd shoot the B*****d on sight!.....what good does it do to the environment?..apart from killing weak or sick animals. |
Maybe quite a lot of good, although "mission wolf" might be biased?
http://www.missionwolf.org/page/trophic-cascade/
| Quote: |
| Since wild wolves have returned to Yellowstone, the elk and deer are stronger, the aspens and willows are healthier and the grasses taller. For example, when wolves chase elk during the hunt, the elk are forced to run faster and farther. As the elk run, their hooves aerate the soil, allowing more grasses to grow. Since the elk cannot remain stationary for too long, aspens and willows in one area are not heavily grazed, and therefore can fully recover between migrations. As with the rest of the country, coyote populations were nearly out of control in Yellowstone before the wolves returned. Now, the coyotes have been out-competed and essentially reduced by 80 percent in areas occupied by wolves. The coyotes that do remain are more skittish and wary. With fewer coyotes hunting small rodents, raptors like the eagle and osprey have more prey and are making a comeback. The endangered grizzly bears successfully steal wolf kills more often than not, thus having more food to feed their cubs. In essence, we have learned that by starting recovery at the top with predators like wolves, the whole system benefits. A wild wolf population actually makes for a stronger, healthier and more balanced ecosystem. From plant, to insect, to people... we all stand to benefit from wolves.
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