| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| Treacodactyl |
Single Payment SchemeDoes anyone know where I can get a simple guide to all the various farm payments, grants etc? I would like to get hold of some realistic numbers. The time has come to start to investigate such things.
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| gil |
DEFRA would seem the obvious starting point.
www.defra.gov.uk |
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| Treacodactyl |
It would be, but I would like something *simple* to start with. With Defra I tend to keep clicking on links and a couple hours later end up back where I started. |
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| gil |
How about a visit to your local DEFRA office ? They might be more helpful / make more sense in person.
This sounds as though you and Bugs are a few steps closer to making your plans happen. |
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| gil |
Try some of these, even if they are Scottish :
http://www.sac.ac.uk/consultancy/fbs/publications/singlefarmpaymentscheme/ http://www.lib.gla.ac.uk/swop/Astron/WL14_20050128.doc http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2003/06/17552/22900 www.hie.co.uk/ lef-business-and-community-services-guide-2005.doc I googled 'agricultural grants' for UK sites. There were many more. |
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| alison |
Ha
simple scheme 
my pile of notes and appendixes is about 2 foot tall. |
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| Nick |
Your local council might be as helpful as mine. I got sent a really, really clear leaflet, I filled it in, and they sent me a cheque for about £350 for some hedge laying I did, and another for some orchard pruning. | ||
| Rob R |
I've looked at most of the schemes at one time or another- what do you want to know/do? | ||
| Treacodactyl |
Put simply I'm after a high level overview of the various payments, what they are for and what you get. I'm after the info so I can work what sort of property I could afford.
I know that sounds very simple and the payments are very complex and may not be applicable to some properties but I'm trying to come up with a realistic budget so I can plan what I need to do and what I can start to look at. For now we're not interested in animal related grants but others might be. |
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| Rob R |
Well, to put it simply, you should not budget on the SFP in any property deal- it is being phased out over the coming years & is never 'guaranteed'. You do get a single payment on that though, based upon a flat rate per acre. To claim this you need both the land & entitlements and land may be sold with or without the attached entitlements, depending upon the vendor. Entitlements can be bought separately.
SFP has replaced all land/animal based schemes (with a few exceptions), and environmental schemes (CSS) have been replaced by High Level Stewardship, which involves producing a full environmental plan of the farm for the claiming of land management, boundary & feature restoration, all for the benefit of wildlife. The Organic conversion payments have also been incorporated into this scheme. Tahir will know more about agro-forestry & tree planting grants, so I'll leave that to him. You are by far better to budget on what you want and can afford to do, and then investigate the support there is available which will enable you to do it quicker & easier. |
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| Treacodactyl |
With grants forming such an integral part of farm finances I can't see how you can ignore them when examining the finances. Having an employment situation that has never been guaranteed the various grants sound far more 'guaranteed'. They wouldn't form the majority of any financing but it can't hurt to see what's about.
It sounds like the High Level Stewardship scheme may be suitable so I'll look into that one in more detail. I've already had to look into the various tree and bio-fuel grants. |
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| tahir |
I gave up in the end, no one was that interested, plus the fields weren't registered or anything. I'm thinking of going organic and trying for the higher level organic scheme next year, by which time we'll have planted about 1.2km of hedges, 1500ish trees, and created a marshy area by the spring, maybe restored one of the ponds too. |
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| tahir |
Ours wasn't |
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| wellington womble |
How much per acre, Rob? Assuming youhave the right bits of paper to go with them? I'm just interested, as the ag tag property I wanted has gone, and OH refused to buy it anyway! | ||
| Rob R |
You don't ignore them- you just don't bank on them! That is the trouble the industry has faced over the years & have therefore become dependant on them. The 2000 CAP reform aimed to decouple farm payments from production to allow farmers more free movement within the different sectors. With the new system you can change from beef cattle to pigs & providing you are looking after the land, then you'll get the same level of support. The payments can be treated apart from enterprise gross margins & therefore it is much easier to budget without the support as an integral part of the business. If you can't make anything without the subsidy figured in, then don't bother. The subsidy can then be treated as a bonus to aid (or hasten) development & improvement. |
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| Mary-Jane |
I've got a feeling that Gervase has got an 'idiot's guide' to this somewhere at home. I'll ask him when I see him tonight. I know he despairs of DEFRA's website and 'explanatory' leaflets - as do all the other farmers around here. | ||
| Rob R |
It depends upon region & status, but for as you say above, about £80 an acre. We got about £7-40 this year though as the payments are split 90:10 based on historical support (for which we did not claim during or before the reference period) & new flat rate. Next year it will be 85:15, and carrying on until it reaches 100% flat rate by 2012, so while everyone else will be getting a bit less each year, we will get a bit more 
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| wellington womble |
Thanks Rob - I guess it won't pay the mortgage, but its not to be sniffed at! | ||
| Rob R |
Every penny counts. And it pays the mortgage for one month of the year 
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| Treacodactyl |
I'll contact Defra to ask for various info packs and try and work through them all. Having a look at the HLS payments http://www.defra.gov.uk/erdp/pdfs/es/hls-payment-booklet.pdf they're almost a list of things I wish to do anyway so it would be great to receive some help.
Can you apply for these stewardship payments on a farm that's not been registered for the Single Payment Scheme? I understand that if a farm hasn't been registered for the SPS by now then it can never join. |
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| Rob R |
Contact the RDS: http://www.defra.gov.uk/erdp/regions/default.htm They administer the environmetal schemes, whereas the RPA administer the SPS. I do not think you need to be claiming SPS in order to claim under HLS, but you do need to make sure the land is on the RLR (Rural Land Register), which can still be done at any time: http://www.rpa.gov.uk/rpa/index.nsf/UIMenu/57EB5CADAD0BFAD580256F72003D47AE?Opendocument |
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| mechanicalmouse |
Looking at various land sales it appears to be possible to sell land that has been SPS registered, yet keep the SPS even though you no longer own the land.
Is this correct? If so is it possible to apply for SPS on land not sold with it? Or is a case of once claimed on an area the SPS remoain in the ownership of the claimer no matter who owns the land it was claimed on? |
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| Nick |
Yep. We have land without the SPS, because the owners kept it. Makes no sense to me, but it's possible. | ||
| crofter |
But if you have bare land, you can buy SFP "entitlements" for that number of hectares and use the land to activate them. At least in Scotland... | ||
| Nick |
OOoh. Is that the case? We've land that was never registered, too, because it was too small. With accumulated land, it's now worth it. Rob, any idea about this? | ||
| Rob R |
Yep, if you have land you can buy entitlements, and you can hold entitlements without land, although only for so long, as far as I recall, as unused entitlements eventually go back to the national reserve. Never had anything to do with it though, so don't have any experience of the process. Personally I think that is a stupid system & every piece of land should be your entitlement, but then it makes jobs for civil servants. | ||
| mechanicalmouse |
I wonder how long they can hold them for. I'd look at the defra website but its hideous to read. I used to program software for the legal industry. Law guides are easier to read!
While looking at land to buy I'm stating to hit quite a few terms I can't get my head around, such as Farm Business Tenancy and secure tenancy under the Agricultural Holdings Act. By the looks of it, these are the farming version of leasehold with additional rent requirements. I'm looking for basic freehold, but the above type of agreements seem to be most unfair to the buyer. |
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| Nick |
Interestingly, I have a letter from DEFRA dated 5 years ago, giving me my CPH number. I've used it for cattle tags and passports, animals movement licences and so on. I'm currently on hold with the RPA who deny I have one. Most odd. Even they don't have an answer.
IF I did have a recognised CPH number, I can buy entitlements, however, it appears. ETA. No, not a CPH, an SBI number. Because I was never given one of those, I can't have a CPH number. Despite them and the BCMS using it many times.... More forms to follow. And some free entitlement for having apple trees! |