| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| Debbie |
CharcoalAnyone tried making it themselves? we have rather a lot of woodland that needs to be copiced and some wood that has been seasoned for a couple of years. The pigs will help with the ground clearance but I fancied having a go at making charcoal. Any ideas? The few sites I have seen on the subject seem to be quite complicated and on a large scale. |
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| Lozzie |
I'd almost certainly recommend getting the experts in to do it for you, to be honest. But I am sure someone else will be along in just a minute to contradict me  :laugh:
You could try talking to - Devon Coppice Association John Hooper, Tel: +44(0)1647 432524 Or, if you like - the Dorset Coppice Group - http://www.dorsetcoppicegroup.co.uk/ Or the Wessex Coppice Network - http://www.coppice.org.uk/index.html Good luck! |
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| sean |
I haven't, but there's a bloke near Torrington called The Charcoal Man who does fairly small scale production using a horse to drag the wood around. I haven't met him personally but you could try giving him a ring and asking for advice. | ||||
| Blue Sky |
Wasn't it Madman / Woodsman that did an article on here about making charcoal many moons ago. He's not around here much these days but I am sure the article will still be in the archives.
Still havn't mastered "digging out old articles" yet. Ask Bugs
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| Lozzie |
The Charcoal Man
Little Marsh Buckland Brewer Bideford Devon EX39 5LY Tel :01805 622214 or 01837 811123 http://www.forestcrafts.co.uk/ 'sat him? I'm pretty sure I met this fellow at the Stock Gaylard Oak Fair last year. |
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| Lozzie |
Simon you're right - the aricle is here:
http://www.downsizer.net/Projects/A_sustainable_world/A_failed_first_attempt_at_making_charcoal/ But he admits it was a "failed attempt" 
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| sean |
Thas him. | ||||
| Treacodactyl |
On a small commercial scale they use special metal kilns that can be moved from wood to wood. You can also do it the old fashioned way by building a stack of wood and covering the outside with soild/turf etc but there can be various problems. You need to take care where the kiln/fire is sited as peaty soild, leaf litter and roots etc can burn and cause the fire to spread. Smoke may also be a problem as a large amount can be generated over a couple of days. If too much air gets in the whole pile can go up in flames as well. 
Having said that I'd certainly have a go. If there's a reasonable amount of wood then finding someone local who knows what they are doing seems very wise. I had a chat to a charcoal burner at a local wood fair and they said they often looked for woods to work in so someone may be interested. There are also some useful links and contacts here: http://www.smallwoods.org.uk/189_Links.asp |
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| Blue Sky |
OK. Thought maybe he would have had a go at a "succesful" attempt but obviousely he did not.
Well, at least you can learn how "not to do it"
S |
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| Treacodactyl |
There are also some charcoal people listed here, plus some other useful ideas.
http://www.allotmentforestry.com/maps/southwest.htm#dev |
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| dougal |
It was discussed in this thread http://forum.downsizer.net/viewtopic.php?t=3630 The reason the attempt failed was that he kept opening his kiln and inserting more fresh fuel - the result of course was ash. To make charcoal, you have to burn wood with a severely limited (choked off) air supply. Opening the kiln completely defeats this... Anyone trying this should do so outdoors. Judy's closing off the air *inlet* achieves the same sort of result as running a gas boiler or water heater with an inadequate air supply. Enough of the Carbon Monoxide may leak into the room (rather than go up the chimney) to cause poisoning, even death. If you really want to play indoors, get a Carbon Monoxide alarm, at the very least. Carbon Monoxide has no smell, or taste, or colour. Its particularly dangerous because you don't realise you are being poisoned - you get drowsy without even realising it. Play carefully! |
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| dpack |
i have done it small scale ,to turn lots of fuel into portable fuel . .
get experts to do a big load . it is not easy . |
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| Debbie |
Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll check out those sites asap. In the meantime I will do a bit of experimenting and see what happens. I have noticed that when we I try and bank our woodburning stove for the night (obviously not very sucessfully) I often get left with charcoal in the morning so I will see if I can apply some of those principles to the briar we have if I can find a way to regulate the airflow at the bottom. | ||||
| Debbie |
Have read the links and particularly found the previous topic discussion very handy. Am going to put my dustbin briar in a whole so I can gradully cover the vent holes at the bottom to stop the air in take. when the burn and smoke change I will remove the lid with the chimny and replace it with one without, seal it and leave it. Bet is doesn't work but will let you know how I get on in a couple of days. just in case I am booking myself on the charcoal burners course in September as provided in one of the links.
Thanks for all your help and advice everyone |
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| Lozzie |
That's great, Debbie - best of luck!!
(ps don't forget to take pictures) |
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| vickersdc |
Hi, I work as a lecturer in forestry and arboriculture at Sparsholt College and have just designed a small charcoal kiln. We've now completed three burns in it, with a further two planned for this week.
The kiln is basically a (slightly) oversized oil drum that I have had made up and it works briliiantly - I really pleased with the efforts so far. Let me know if you would like some more details - I'm also planning to set up a one-day course on charcoal making if anyone is interested? Cheers, David Vickers. |
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| Debbie |
Hi david
I would be really interested in hearing abour your burner as, as you can see, I am about to start experimenting myself. Will be booking a course this week too so if you are within distance would be very interested. Any chance of some pictures of your burner? |
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| cuff |
im sure an episode of river cottage showed you how to make charc oal | ||||
| Debbie |
Yes Cuff it did but was with a big "proper" kiln. I am sure the same principles apply but I wanted something a bit smaller scale and home made if possible. Having said that I am now off to find my DVD's and see if I have the episode in question | ||||
| tahir |
Welcome on board David, we'd all love to know more about it and the courses, whenever you're ready |
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| Treacodactyl |
Something easily portable and small sounds idea for many smallholders or small woods owners. Where abouts is Sparsholt College? Feel free to post up more details David and thanks for the info. | ||||
| dpack |
hello .
i have used a clamp of turf or sand . a closed down fire .and random . a kiln design and method would be a useful bit of info . please . |
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| vickersdc |
Hi, thanks for the welcome!
Sparsholt College is just outside Winchester, Hampshire - it's the home of Radio 4's Gardeners Question Time garden (if you ever listen to GQT!). I did take some pictures of the kiln in action with my mobile phone, but the pictures are not that great - we are loading up on Tuesday again in order to complete a burn on Wednesday; I'll make sure that I get some better pictures to post. The kiln is about 1.8m tall and 0.75m across, is easy to use and creates brilliant charcoal. It has a couple of chimneys, with lids so it's easy to shut down. I designed it to be easy to use for our students, who range from 17 years old upwards. It will take about 4-5 hours for the volatile liquids to be burnt off (when the smoke turns to transparent blue) and then we leave to cool overnight. However, I reckon you could successfully do a complete burn and empty in one day. I'll post some more information when I get a chance - making some home-brew beer at the moment! Cheers, David. |
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| Treacodactyl |
More info will be very welcome when you have a moment. Ready in a day sounds good, I've never fancied spending several days and nights, with no sleep, watching a heap like they did in the old days.
I'm just off to barrel up a couple of gallons of bitter myself. |
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| vickersdc |
Hi Treacodactyl, I notice that you are located in Surrey too - for your information (and others too!), Sparsholt College is having its annual Countryside Day on the 13th (this Saturday). The kiln will be there, although not burning, the charcoal will be available to view / buy. Should you be able to come down, you can ask any of the Forestry guys about the kiln, or come and introduce yourself to me (David Vickers) and I'll talk you through it in more detail.
Cheers. |
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| cuff |
could you watch the eppisode and make a smaller version | ||||
| vickersdc |
Instructions On Use
Selecting Wood It is recommended, if possible, to burn a single species at any one time as this creates a more consistent charcoal than loading the kiln with several different wood species. Some species will burn quicker than others and generally the thinner-barked species burn quicker – Sycamore burns quickly, makes good charcoal and can be burnt whilst still green if necessary. The wood should be around 50-75mm diameter and of a length that will allow tight packing of the kiln. Ideally the wood should be cut in the winter (low sap content) and left to air-dry for 12 months – wood cut in the summer (higher sap content) will take longer to dry sufficiently. The BTCV recommends leaving Chestnut for 2 years. Note that dried wood is easier to light, burns more cleanly and produces more charcoal per weight of wood. Preparing The Kiln The kiln should be sited on a sound flat area away from buildings and overhanging trees / shrubbery where the heat produced would damage the leaves / stems. The kiln should be sat on top of three or four bricks and the base sealed with soil and turf, leaving only an air inlet of approx. 150mm. Loading The Wood The wood should be loaded in to the kiln and packed tightly around a central post (e.g. fence post). Once the wood is loaded, the post can be removed and a lit firelighter dropped down the hole made by removing the post. This hole should then be filled with small pieces of wood and twigs and left to burn. Once the fire is established, the lid should be placed on the top and sealed with sand; leaving the two chimneys open. At this stage, thick white smoke should emanate from the chimneys and after approx. 4-5 hours this should change to a blue haze which shows that the charcoal is beginning to burn. All open inlets / outlets should now be closed off and the unit left to cool. Troubleshooting The main problems that are likely to be encountered are: · Too much ash: caused by the wood being burnt too hot as a result of too much air – use a smaller air inlet and ensure that the soil/turf seal is made properly to exclude all air. · Charred wood rather than charcoal (known as brown ends): this could be caused by an inadequate air supply or not letting the initial burn get properly established. Safety The following items should be considered as the minimum safety guidelines for the burning process: · The kiln should be sited on sound, level ground. · The ground for at least 2 metres around the kiln must be clear of leaves, sticks and other flammable material, particularly when there is a risk of fire spreading through the woodland. · Keep a similar area clear of any hazards so that operators can move quickly and safely away from a flare or other danger. Don't leave tools where they may be tripped over by an operator moving out of the smoke. · Inform fire officers in advance of the site and time of the burn. · A supply of water and fire-beaters should be immediately to hand. · There should always be at least two people on the site, in case of accident or emergency. · The kiln must be closely supervised throughout the burn, and during the cooling down period. · Where the public have access, the site must be cordoned off and clearly signed. Tools The following tools should be available during the practical sessions whilst carrying out the preparation and also during the burn:
Saws, billhooks or axes: used to prepare the timber before loading. Shovel: used to mound the soil/turf around the base of the kiln and for moving the sand in order to seal the lid. Fence post: used to create a hole in order to light the wood. Firelighters: used to set the initial burn going. Leather gloves: used when loading / unloading. Face mask: used when unloading / bagging the charcoal due to the dust. Fire-beaters / water supply: used for controlling fires. First-aid kit: used for dealing with any injuries. Safety boots: used in case wood is dropped whilst loading the kiln. |
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| Treacodactyl |
Many thanks for the details David, I'll check out the document tonight. Do you make much charcoal and, if you do, is there a ready market for it locally? | ||||
| gil |
All that information looks excellent and very useful. Thank you for sharing it with us, David, and welcome to the site. Looking forward to the pix. | ||||
| Northern_Lad |
I saw an episode of Ray Meyers in Sweden over the weekend in which they made charcoal; the main purpose of the kilm was to get tar, but the charcoal looked pretty good.
It basically comprised of a steel drum in which you placed your wood, with a small hole in the bottom and a sealed lid. A fire was then lit all around and on top. Have you any experience of such methods? |
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| Treacodactyl |
Was that the one with a canoe?
There's some concern at the moment about how many pollutants wood burners pump out and I would think the same concerns would apply to charcoal burning. I also know wood can be processed to produce gasses and liquids for fuels etc so I wonder if there's any mileage in something that would collect and condense the gasses given off by a charcoal kiln? You might get some gasses that can be simply burn and some creosote, I wonder if there's a market for it? |
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| Northern_Lad |
Same series, but this one had the skis and knife. |
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| sean |
Mostly raised by people with a vested interest in nuclear/coal/gas/oil based energy it has to be said. At least in the cases I've seen. |
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| Treacodactyl |
I was thinking about the couple of people from the AECB who've mentioned it. I've no idea if they have any vested interests and when there are so many bonfires where I live at the moment there are more important things to sort first, but if you could collect anything useful I'm all ears. |
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| vickersdc |
Making charcoal is a none too friendly activity really! The process of creating charcoal creates several by-products such as:
· Tar; · Ash; · Gases (hydrogen, carbon monoxide & carbon dioxide); · Chemicals (acetic acid & methanol); Large volumes of water given off as vapour. The use of retort kilns provides a means of recycling the gases, using them to increase the temperature of the burn. However, for small scale burning, it's just not practical to make a retort kiln. You could make a simple modification to collect the tar from the chimneys and I had thought about modifying my kiln design to do this - but it's such a small amount that it really does not warrant the expenditure involved for the return. My drawings for the kiln I designed show the height to be around 1.5m high - the one that actually got made ended up nearer 1.8m high - which is just a bit too high to load. It burns well though and I believe that tall, thin kilns are more effective. Cheers, David. |
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| dougal |
I came across this rather interesting photo tutorial on charcoal making.
http://www.twinoaksforge.com/BLADSMITHING/MAKING%20CHARCOAL.htm This chap makes his own charcoal for forging swords... The interesting thing is the vent pipe, shown in the picture of the naked drums on their stands. (Click on the pic for a larger version) Basically a fire is lit *under* the drums. The wood in the drums gives off gases - which that crafty pipe ducts *under* the drum, where they burn, driving off more gas from the wood in the drum... I can well believe the author when he states
It looks a fairly practical, and practicable process - if you have the space to do it in relative isolation, otherwise, its going to be a highly anti-social one... |
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| Blue Sky |
Thanks for sharing that Dougal. It's a good article. I had a brief go at charcoal making earlier in the year and I was rather impressed with the results. Not done anymore since but I will do. I like the kiln idea. | ||||
| NeighboursInTheWoods |
I have just made a very successful first attempt at making charcoal using the instructions at http://www.allotmentforestry.com/fact/Charcoal.htm
Food barbecued with your own charcoal tastes so much better - don't know if this is purely psychological or if there is genuinely something in it - but we were amazed at the enormous difference it makes. |
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| Hairyloon |
The easiest way to make a small amount of charcoal is to get a metal drum with a lid (I've used 25 litre vegetable oil drums with the tops cut off. They don't have lids, but they stack).
Light a bonfire & once it has burned down a bit, shovel some of it into the drum & put the lid on. Once the drum has cooled down you have charcoal. I have also tried making charcoal with a full sized kiln. It's not difficult to do, but it is difficult to get right. We got a lot of charcoal, but quite a lot of half charcoaled wood. Largely we failed to sell it, so we gave up that game. |
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| resistance is fertile |
For anyone interested we will be doing short courses on coppice management and charcoal burning again later in the year.
I will advertise the dates etc here a bit nearer the time. |
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| Nick |
What wood can/can't you use for charcoal? Clearly, it needs to be in chunks suitable, size-wise, for the intended grill, but can it be green/seasoned, and presumably anything with paint/treatment is out?
Aside from that, good/bad species? I have chunks of softwood and hardwood to play with, as well as elder, ash, apple, willow and hazel in abundance. |
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| Bodger |
It rather looks as though folks have overlooked the article that I did on charcoal making. 
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| sean |
And very fine it is too. Here you are. 
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| Nick |
I had missed it, but don't take it personally. Thanks. I'm going to have a go... | ||||
| Bodger |
I havent but if you speak nicely to me honey, I have a small book on how to do it somewhere if I can lay my hands on it. | ||||
| Nick |
I have an oil drum, and a stack of wood. I'm going to go down the route described in the article above to start with. More of an experiment, really. Useful to be able to fuel the tandoor without buying stuff at the petrol station, I guess. | ||||
| Treacodactyl |
Out of that list I'd go with ash, apple or hazel; not the softwood. Seasoned ideally. |
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| Nick |
Think things like apple will lose any flavour when charcoaled? I'm assuming they will, and won't then add to any food? | ||||
| Treacodactyl |
I'd guess the apple would lose all it's flavour as I've never heard of a specific wood being used to add flavour to food like smoking does. It might do and you could be onto a winner of Nick's varietal smoking charcoal TM. | ||||
| Nick |
I've got a LOT of fallen apple, so let's hope so, eh?
Would DS Inc be interested in fronting some research cash, say, £200,000? And, my moat could do with a scrub, too.... |
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| Treacodactyl |
Well it should make good charcoal and if it doesn't have any flavour you could sprinkle a little apple wood shavings over the coals. | ||||
| tim_and_nicky |
Is that a euphemism? |
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| gil |
I suspect it's a reference to the MPs expenses thread. One of them apparently had their moat cleaned at public expense. | ||||
| thewoollyshepherd |
Debbie....We make charcoal in our woodland with an old oil tank very successfully!
We are only an hour max from you so come over and get Pete to show you how! We have a spare oil tank to convert if you want it too! |
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| James |
I came across a fantastic article explaining a simple, small, garden-sized retort charcoal maker which can also be used as a cooker. Here’s the principle:
1) get two open topped metal drums- one large, one small. 2) On the large drum, cut holes in the bottom of the sides (not on the base) 3) Put the small drum (open top facing upwards) on temporary supports so the total height is that of the large drum. 4) Pack the small drum with wood 5) Place the larger drum centrally upside-down on top of the small drum. 6) Invert both drums. So now you have the big drum with the open end facing upwards with the upside-down small drum (filled with wood) sitting centrally inside the large drum. 7) The outer drum is put on some level feet. Ventilation is via the sides, not the base, so the feet are not to ensure ventilation, more to ensure the ground isn’t damaged & the burner is level. 8 ) Pack the space between the inner and outer drums with kindling, brown-ends and firewood & light the fire using the ventilation holes. 9) Keep adding wood to the fire for at least 30-40 minutes, after which the wood inside the inner drum will start to char and release pyrolisis gas. The gas escapes from the bottom of the inner drum, and enters the fire in the outer drum. The gas combusts and heats up the inner drum further, producing more pyrolosis gas & accelerating the process. The fire changes character when this happens- the flame becomes hotter and clearer. At this point, you stop putting wood on. 10) When the fire becomes a pyrolisis gas fire, put a grill on top of the outer drum and use to cook food. 11) The fire will last about 30-40 minutes, after which it will stop quite abruptly. 12) Let the inner drum cool and turn out the charcoal. I’ve not yet done this, but I’m on the scout for two appropriate drums at the moment. The same blog has lots of information about using urine nutrified charcoal to improve soil fertility. In general its a very interesting blog and well worth a look (although the formating is up the shoot) |