| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| Treacodactyl |
Easy, Cider!Following on from the thread on Cheats Cider I thought I'd post up what I'm doing with my first batch and post progress. Some people have expressed an interest in trying this as well so perhaps we can make this into our first Downsizer Challenge?Equipment: 1 One Gallon Demijohn (sterilised) 1 Bung with an air lock 4 One litre plastic bottles that can cope with pressurised liquid! Ingredients: One Gallon of apple juice (I'm using 5 one litre cartons) Ale yeast (or other yeast, wine yeast may make the cider very dry, bread yeast could be tried) Method This is what I intend to do, feel free to add suggestions or try something else!: 1) Sterilise the demijohn. Add 4 litres of apple juice to start and half a teaspoon of yeast. This should give enough room for the initial fermentation. Add a bung with and air lock and leave somewhere warm. 2) After initial rapid fermentation, top up with more apple juice and leave with the bung and air lock to almost work its way out. 3) Bottle and leave somewhere warm to finish fermenting and then leave to settle for a couple of weeks. 4) Then drink! Notes: Dead rats optional! |
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| Treacodactyl |
Well, I've started off a gallon today, apple juice and ale yeast. It only took a couple of mins. I measured the specific gravity and with an SG of 1.045 this should make a cider with an alcohol around 5-6°. I'll keep you posted of progress. | ||||||
| sally_in_wales |
A few years ago I tried something similar but the batch didnt take- I think because there was a preservative in the juice that killed off the yeast. Did you do anything like aerate the juice or heat it to drive off anything like that- or were you able to get a juice that doesnt have any preservatives in it?? Would like to try this again but got a bit put off last time. | ||||||
| Treacodactyl |
I would have thought any preservatives should be listed on the juice and there's nothing there. I didn't do anything special but I'll keep an on it and if nothing is hapening after a day or so then I'll start some yeast off in a little sugar and add that. | ||||||
| sally_in_wales |
Cool! Am going to Lidls tomorrow, you may just have inspired me to pick up a few cartons of cheap juice and have another go 
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| Treacodactyl |
Well, give it a couple of days and I'll let you know if we have any action at Dactyl Towers.
Mind you, it is the fishing kit day tomorrow, so I may make my first trip to Lidl. |
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| Treacodactyl |
Well, when I got up this morning there was definitely some activity in the brew. Not many bubbles but it does seem to be working. 
If you try it again Sally I would go for an ale yeast as it could be possible a wine may not start that easily? Anyone know if you can buy Cider yeasts? |
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| Blacksmith |
How is it going ?
Just started off a couple of gallons, if it works, should be a cheap brew. 10 x 1l @ 38p for the apple juice, plus 95p for a champagne yeast (as recomended in CJJB book) 2 gallons of cider for less than a fiver ! Dave |
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| Blue Sky |
This is brilliant!!!
I have been looking for ways to re-use my spent ale yeast ... it seems such a waste to chuck it down the drain. I tried a little experiment similar to this in February but I used Grapefruit juice (pure) rather than apple juice. The demi-johns are still bubbling so I have yet to try the finished product but I will keep everyone posted when I do. I will try your method with the apple juice next time and see if this works well also. Baby crying so I will have to go now as my wife is almost in labour with our next! Happy homebrewing |
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| Treacodactyl |
Well, I topped up the demijohn last week as the fermentation was not too vegerous as to need a bit more room. It's bubbling well and even clearing a bit so all's well at the moment. It will be very interesting to see how dry mine is compared to yours Blacksmith, if indeed there's any noticable difference.
Simon, what's the name for fermented Grapefruit juice? |
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| Blue Sky |
That's a good question????? I think we may have to make one up! | ||||||
| Blacksmith |
Syphoned into a poly barrel at the weekend, just tried a drop, fizzy, apple flavored, medium dry, bouquet like an aborigines armpit, this is not a cider for drinking, this is a cider for laying down and avoiding, a little heavy and should only be used for hand to hand combat!
May improve with age ? Anyone else tried a drop of theirs yet ? Dave |
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| tahir |
When's the last time you sniffed an Aborigine's armpit? 
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| Treacodactyl |
I tried a drop of mine at the weekend. It's still fermenting, and is going to be sharp but it's also sweet at the moment. I'm getting scents of apples, yeast and a hint of bubblegum. It's kept its colour and is clearing nicely.
Now, do I bottle while it's still fermenting or wait and then prime with a couple of spoons of sugar for a sparkle? I'll be useing old fizzy water bottles. |
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| jema |
Don't know much about these things, but bottling before end of fermentation is very iffy. |
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| Treacodactyl |
The bitter you get in pubs is not primed and I assume the cask cider, I think. |
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| jema |
But that is done to a degree of accuracy you are unlikely to obtain in home brewing. |
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| Treacodactyl |
Who's been telling you about my beer. 
I think Cider would be one of the best things to practice with as you can get anything from still to very fizzy. |
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| jema |
Home brewing is very very variable, in the context of this thread I have been glancing at batch 1 of my banana wine, labelled for action min June, as according to the recipe. More like action next week I would say!
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| Blacksmith |
Most of my wines seem to be fermenting out very quickly. Don't know if its because they are at a constant 68 degree F ?
Racked and filtered my parsnip wine, its crystal clear !After all the warnings of parsnip wine being difficult to clear, im chuffed ! Last Aborigines armpit ?................its a long story, I had 2 small sweet sherrys', next thing I know i'm in Bodrum, its 2am i'm covered in jam, and the Dagenham girl pipers are playing the hits of Moterhead on kazoo ! Dave........(avoid those little mushrooms with a nipple) |
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| tahir |
Wish I'd been there... |
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| boff |
Rather glad I wasnt......
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| Treacodactyl |
Well, I think the easy cider has fermented out. Just a little sparkle and it could easily be drunk right from the demijohn. Quite dry with a bit of sharpness and a little sweetness still. I think the result is better than I expected, the only complaint is a lack of flavour but there's some and it's better than some ciders I've bought.
I'll bottle it during the week and try to leave it a month to mature. Now off to buy Bugs one of those apple presses and another 5 gallon fermenter ready for the Autumn. Anyone in the South East likely to have any spare apples... |
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| Blacksmith |
Tried mine again yesterday, fermented right out, more like still scrumpy. OK after the first pint or so...................
Also found a couple of 18" lengths of 1" whitworth studding whilst clearing up in the workshop recently, couple of bits of 4" channel, bit of welding, bit of marine ply, on the way to making a press ! Dave |
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| sean |
You've got a sort of ubershed there haven't you? I'm sure you cleared it out before and were offering your sconces around.
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| Nick |
How many do you want? |
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| Blacksmith |
It's a fair cop guv ! I tidy ouy my shed and workshop ( basicly moving the cr*p from one place to another) then, we have a safety audit at work.................well, seems a shame to throw all those USEFULL odds and ends in the skip when i've got a practicaly empty workshop and shed at home............and so it goes on.
Perhaps there is a help group somewhere ? My name is Dave and i'm a skip diver................. |
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| sally_in_wales |
Very honourable profession skip diving...
Back to the cider. My Lidls apple juice and ginger brew (mostly apple juice, boil a chunk of chopped ginger in a bit, add sugar to make 14% potential alc by the hydrometer before chucking in a teaspoon of yeast) is almost ready and its damn good at first sniff. Did it with the 18% 48hr turboyeast and it finished in about three weeks flat. Give it a month to clear down by itself and I reckon it will be ready for summer drinking. Definately going to make more of this one. |
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| Treacodactyl |
I have no idea!
Now I think I will make some larger batches I need to track down a good press and look into this a bit more. I would like to make a couple of 5 gallon batches so that's 80 pints. How many apples is that? I would like to use as local apples as possible as one of my bugbears is the wasted fruit from suburban gardens. We could even start a campaign... I do need a good press, especially if other people would like to use it. Any ideas? |
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| Treacodactyl |
Good to hear, mmm, could be tempted to try something like this. 
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| Treacodactyl |
I'm going to put on another batch this weekend and take some pics to knock up a small article. Has anyone else had a go or have comments? I must admit I am pleasantly surprised by my results. 
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| sally_in_wales |
I was also very pleased with my batch- I added ginger to mine so its more of a wine than a cider, but very painless to brew and cleared very fast. | ||||||
| Treacodactyl |
Thanks Sally, I was going to use your comments.... if I may.
Did you make a fizzy cider or was it lightly sparkling or flat? |
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| sally_in_wales |
Help yourself! Its a flat cider- which also makes me class it more of a wine than cider just by character, quite yummy though | ||||||
| Treacodactyl |
Hopefully I'll get time to put on another batch this weekend and it's time to experiment a little. We will have some cooking apple cores and peel which I'll throw into a fermenting bin with a couple more chopped apples and apple juice. It's been suggested that 1/2 lb of sugar could also be added so I'll try that as well. I will also use a wine yeast this time although I have no idea how long it will take before the brew will be ready to drink. Due to the cold weather I have had to trap a few mice in the house but I think adding one of them will be going too far.
Anyone else tried variations on the simple recipe? I will get round to trying out the suggestion of adding ginger. |
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| pricey |
Ta TD.
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| dougal |
As a brewing novice, I was thinking of having a go at this... I was contemplating using some freshly "juiced" apples, topped up with Lidl's juice... and from the sound of things a bit of sugar. But it sounds as though you are suggesting fermenting "on the pulp" - which I had thought was not a good thing with Apples. Hence I was actually concerned about filtering the stuff... |
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| Treacodactyl |
I know apples can make a cloudy wine and fermenting on the pulp may make the cider too cloudy but I'm not sure if there's anything harmful if you don't mind a cloudy pint. Are you referring to the possibility of methanol being produced? If so is that more likely by adding extra sugar? Would it be worth adding pectinase to reduce the risk?
Although I happy with the taste of the simple recipe I was hoping adding some sharper cooking apples and a few others would add some extra depth. I could just mash theses with some warmed fruit juice and strain after a few hours although this will still make a cloudy juice though. |
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| pricey |
To much sugar . I followed recipe as planed dissolved 500g sugar in some hot water poured in shook well , poped in hydrometer 11% it read.
To be honest i didn't know how to use on until the very nice lady in home brew shop in Ringwood told me, so easy now  .
She also said champagne yeast was ideal for this and that turbo stuff which she doesn't stock used to have uric acid in it  , but she doesn't know now if it does or not.
Going away from the cider for a mo  . tested carrot wiskey 16%, so I had a taste mmmmloverly bit like sherry, very sweet does this mean it has not fermented properly and I should do it again, I still have all the fruit + wheat in it in the 5 gallon bucket? Gema?
Going back to the cider she said that if it ferments out in 5 days then drink it, cloudy apple juice wont go clear + keeping it wont make it better, just get it down yer neck, Will let you all know in a week then, if I can see to type 
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| Treacodactyl |
The hydrometer reading will give a possible alcohol reading and it may be less than 11% specially if you like it not over dry. About 8% may be more like it I'd have thought. | ||||||
| pricey |
Thats good 8% is ok for me cheers TD
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| Treacodactyl |
But it may be more though so take care. I'll check the SG of the cider I have to see what the finished SG is, this should give a rough guide. | ||||||
| Stacey |
So, am I right in thinking that if I started a brew now it'd be ok for christmas? | ||||||
| Treacodactyl |
I would say it depends on where you ferment it and what yeast you use. In a constant warm place with no added sugar and a turbo yeast some people seem to have something drinkable quite quickly (see above posts). However, not having a constant heat source and using ale yeast the quickest I have made a batch is a couple of months. A month to ferment and a month to mature but it will be ready for a warm spring day. The worst that will happen is you have something for the new year.
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| Treacodactyl |
Sorry, I think I got this a bit wrong. My cider I'm drinking now has an SG of about 1.005 and the apple juice 1.045 so about 5% alcohol. If I add 1/2 lb (8oz) of sugar per gallon I should get an SG just over 1.060 so an alcohol level of about 8%. Of course this depends on the sugar level in the fruit juice to start with. So, if you can, test the SG of the juice and then work out the additional amount of sugar required. There's a handy article here with tables to work out sugar & alcohol: http://www.downsizer.net/Projects/Processing_Food/The_Hydrometer/ I hope I've not made too many errors in the calcs.
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| dougal |
Yeasts: Off the Atkinson's yeast page - what would be recommended?
http://www.arkwrightshomebrew.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/26_61 Alcotec 8 for speed? Or Gervan Orange for speed to a "sparkling wine"? Unican champagne yeast? Or one of the ordinary 'ale' yeasts? Any guidance? |
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| Treacodactyl |
In the two batches I've made I've used an ale yeast but think it may be adding too much taste so I was going to try a wine yeast next.
With all my wines I've used the Gervin sachets without any problems so I'd use one of those. I'm not sure how to make an off dry cider though without making it too strong. |
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| pricey |
It will get us drunk anyway I will just try a shot glass full first
Started it at 4.40pm now bubbling away nicely, must be the boiler its sat on. |
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| dougal |
Well, I've got a demijon going.
Went into Lidl's and was tempted by their up-market Apple Juice (Naturally gently pressed... cloudy... made directly from the fruit... Fruit content 100%... no added sugar... Ingredients: Apple juice, Vitamin C"). 1 litre pack 79p. It does taste more like the juice of real apples than most commercial juices. (Think of something like Copella.) Its a very middle of the road apple though - Gala? (But, hey, it does have that real-apple sort of taste.) Cloudy? Its opaque! Scrumpy, here we come! Ken at Arkwrights recommended Gervin Red yeast, so thats what its got. I added 5ish desertspoonfuls of castor sugar, to get an initial density of something like 1055. Its bubbling very gently. (Should have warmed the juice to room temp...  )
I think I'll try another parallel batch, using their ordinary "made from concentrate" apple juice - with the same yeast and sugar addition. A single variable! And I'll do a third with a right old mixture of both types plus some 'juiced' apples with some of my bread yeast... unless I get a better suggestion for a more meaningful variation.
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| Treacodactyl |
Congratulations. I put on a batch as well, about half cheap juice, half cloudy with the addition of 3 apples worth of juice from grated and quickly squeezed apples. 4oz of sugar and Gervain green yeast, that I did have to start this time. The juice was sharper so hopefully I will get a more cidery brew!
Can you buy pear juice? |
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| dougal |
Well, that was a bit quick...
I noticed that the bubbling rate had dropped right off - still going, but slow. So I've just checked the densities - 1.004 0.998 and 0.996
thats in 7 days for one and six days for the other two - from 1055 ish... I've added a bit of extra juice to the second two, which I'd underfilled (having overfilled the first - froth in the airlock). Since they are all extremely cloudy, (and yeasty smelling), I guess its just stick them to the side and swap to plain bungs when things stop completely. Or should I try and rack off when they stop bubbling? |
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| Treacodactyl |
I'm on my first batch of cloudy cider as well, so not too sure what to suggest. As our house is cool the fermentation tends to take longer, I'm still getting the odd bubble and the brew is very cloudy. The clear juice cider I've made I left for a couple of weeks after fermenting and then bottled with a little priming sugar. The bottles had a layer of sediment in them and the cider was clear after about 6 weeks.
So this batch I'll leave with the air lock in for a month or so and then bottle and leave the bottles for at least another month before trying. As you have 3 djs you could experiment a little with bottling one sooner than the rest unless someone else has a different idea. |
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| dougal |
Well, I did start the three. And after the bubbling stopped. They were very cloudy. So I ignored them. Even left them on the lees, under the bubblers. But this weekend I noticed that the one made with cheapo clear juice had cleared. So that's it. I doubt the others intend clearing, ever. I think some pectinase might be a good idea in future...
So I've decanted the one made with odds and sods, and AFAICR ornery 'instant' bread yeast... Its dry. Very dry. Maybe very, very dry. But its got a decent flavour and a high % of smiles... Anyway, a couple of teaspoons of sugar stirred into a wineglassful produces a very drinkable brew... I've put some sugar with some of the stuff into a PET bottle, and we'll see if its sparkling in a few days... Otherwise - what's the least harmful way of killing the fermentation so that one could sweeten it without bottles exploding? But it works. And if I can do it...
I'll report on the comparison of the three when I've tasted them all. |
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| James |
you could try heating it up if you dont want to use campden tablets.
I used to do something similar with tropical fruit juice- two or three liters of *fresh* tropical fruit juice (check the ingredients for preserviatives)- the good stuff is more expensive, but worth it. for the rest of the liquid, I used apple juice once, and another time I used a white wine kit. It comes out slightly sweet, and tastes & of mangos, pineapples and bannanas. Its got an amazing smell of tropical fruits. Its quite murky, but fantastic taste. The only problem is that it taste so nice! it doesnt hang around. |
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| Treacodactyl |
I'm not that happy with my batch made from cloudy apple juice and a little sugar, it's not cleared and tasted rather dry and sharp a while back. I must get round to bottling it soon, it'll be drinkable but no where nears as good as the clear Waitrose apple juice I used for the first batch. I think I'll have another go with that juice and it should be ready for late spring.
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| pricey |
I think I have a problem. I started 2 gallons on Sunday last & 1 on Thursday, all have stopped bubbling already, It's normally 7 to 10 days.
Shall I leave it and see, or restart with some more yeast. Any suggestions. |
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| Treacodactyl |
It might be worth starting a little more yeast in half a mug of warm water and a teaspoon of sugar and leaving it until it's fermenting well before adding to the apple juice. Is the juice somewhere warm, or could it be too warm and that's killed the yeast? | ||||||
| dougal |
Have you got a hydrometer? http://www.downsizer.net/Projects/Processing_Food/The_Hydrometer/ |
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| pricey |
I think it was to warm  . Just stuck my hydrometerin and it sunk to the bottom, no reading at all
How much yeast do I use to restart. |
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| dougal |
No reading? Nooooo. Either your hydrometer is stuffed or there's something *very* strange. The more the hydrometer sinks, the lower the indicated liquid density. If its less than 1.0, fermentation ain't gonna restart. But it shouldn't be *so* much less than zero as to be off the scale! May I suggest checking the hydrometer - water is 1.0 (we could worry about temp if we were trying to be precise) but unless your hydrometer says that water is something close to 1.0 don't trust it, replace it. If it says water is 1.0 and your brew is less (it floats lower) then believe fermentation has finished. |
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| pricey |
It was working, it was showing % desired alcohol at 8, so I dont know ? I think I will try restarting, nothing to lose eh. ta dougal | ||||||
| JH |
Help
Am making this cider at the mo. Added yeast to the 5 litres of apple juice and some 5 hours later we're now battling with froth trying to come through the J tube! What do i do? |
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| Treacodactyl |
Leave home? Sounds like you've got a fiesty one there. You can pour off a little apple juice and top up again when it calm. Can you move it somewhere cooler to slow fermentation? If not stand it somewhere that can catch the froth and leave to calm down but don't forget to rinse the air lock out before the froth dries. | ||||||
| JH |
*killing myself laughing* - we did actually both start looking at the door... We'll try moving it somewhere cooler for a start - its only about 16 C in here though (and sleet outside)... |
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| Treacodactyl |
Do make sure that it'll not damage anything it stands on though. Posh carpet etc, no chance of that here.
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| JH |
It could blow a hole 25 meters wide and it'd still not damage anything valuable..
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| Fee |
Re: Easy, Cider!
Have you tinkered with this method/the ingredients much since this one, TD? Or is there an article? If so, I couldn't find it
I've got my apple juice and some Champagne yeast (recommended by the chap in the homebrew shop rather than ale yeast, too), and the demijohn is being sterilised as I type
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| Treacodactyl |
I did try some cloudy apple juice and grated bramly and some sugar but it's taken ages to clear. The simple recipe seems a good starter, I might try clear apple juice and a little sugar (perhaps 4oz in a gallon) or mostly cheap clear apple juice and a litre of something sharper.
No spare djs at the moment though, not for a week or so anyway.
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| Penny |
Re: Easy, Cider!
Now that's what I call multi-tasking
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| Fee |
hee hee, just because we can
Cheers, TD, will get it going today
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| dougal |
Don't initially fill it beyond the straight sides of the demijon!
Allowing it to ferment out completely gives a *very* dry cider. I 'dilute to taste' (sweeten) at the time of drinking with apple juice. This seems better somehow than stirring in a few teaspoonfuls of sugar before drinking each glass. Alternatives would be to kill the yeast either before the fermentation had finished (so leaving some of the original sugars), or to allow fermentation to complete (more alcohol) before ensuring the yeast was dead (to avoid restarting it), before adding additional sugar (or juice). I put a small teaspoonful of sugar in a PET (ex tonic water) litre bottle of cider. And forgot it. It didn't bulge. Or even look active. I literally forgot about it for a few months. It made some very convincing, but bone-dry sparkling cider, with bubbles that kept on coming. Very dry and very acid though - so I just stirred in some more juice...
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| Treacodactyl |
I certainly does, especially if you add some bramley apple juice and a little sugar then leave it to ferment out for 6 months. However, the cider is rather nice well chilled and an ideal mixer for Creme de Cassis or some other sweet fruity liqueur.
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| james_so |
I have done a few of these now and can report that 'happy shopper' apple juice with a EC-1118 champagne yeast makes a nice (if slightly insipid) cider. I'm going to transfer it to pressure bottles and see if a bit of a fizz will make up for the lack of bite.
Also made an apple, pomegranite & raspberry one (not sure that I can call it cider mind you ) with the same yeast which is rather, ermm, interesting...
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| @Calli |
Its frothy man!
Due to the heat my Lidl easy cider is frothing all over the place! This time got a load of old grolch type bottles ready - add half tsp suger and wait!!! last lot brilliant! 
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| jimbob444 |
ciderhi ya alljust made a gallon of cider with a dessert wine yeast approx 14% alcohol,and four litres of apple juice.and a 500g of sugar, one crushed camden tablet. after two weeks its ready to drink although its a bit cloudy, but its clearing all the time. and smell like shit but it tastes fantastic,and gives you a great buzz. gonna make 5 gallons for christmas see ya in the new year!! |
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| james_so |
It did a bit of fizz made it much more approachable, even the OH likes it (she 'doesn't do cider' since a teenaged incident with some real scrumpy )
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| Treacodactyl |
I think it does too, the cider I've made may not be the most authentic, but with a bit of fizz to it it's great. My latest batch, made from our own apples, is rather dry but with a decent amount of fix and nicely chilled it should be more than drinkable. |
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| kegmar |
Re: Easy, Cider!
Hey there fellow brewers... Im a little new to this forum, but not to the home brew. been brewing my own for quite some time now and anything that avoids the chancellor's tax-sting, Im certainly game for!!
I am yet to test a decent cider recipe. If anyone could help me with my quick Q... The recipe above quote "apple juice" is there any specific apple juice thats better?? I know that the most readily available juice is the stuff thats made from CONCENTRATE... This is usually made into the "juice-drink" we associate with apple juice from a supermarket. It certainly is cheap, and Im thinking could this be the downfall of what some have described this as being...an incipid cider...?? Would it be any better to fork out a little extra dosh and get "fresh pressed apple juice?" This will be cloudy to start with, but im unsure if it will produce a different result. The juice itself tends to be a little sharper to start with... I have very limited space at home and the thought of making a home-press or equivalent send shivers of fear down my spine fearing what the missus would say to my ever-growing collection of brewerania (even though its probably the more organic/natural version) Has anyone tried this supermarket pressed juice for the brew?? Many thanks for your help and keep threading!! cheers |
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| dougal |
Hi Kegmar, and welcome!
Do you have a local Lidl? (www.lidl.co.uk to check) Their apple juice is rather good. They do a 'cheapie' that is 100% juice from concentrate. This is just fine. It is not a diluted "Juice Drink". It has no preservatives. Seemingly not even Vitamin C. It comes in 1.5 litre packs. (Use dead tetrapaks as firelighters.) Apple juice marked "Once opened keep refrigerated and consume within 3 days" has no preservatives. This is what you want. (Vitamin C is fine however.) Avoid anything (from anywhere) called a "juice drink" - that is EU-speak for 'diluted to weaker than original juice'. I add sugar to the juice. (It has "no added sugar".) And a big pinch of pectinase enzyme to deal with cloudiness. And its good. I ferment to dryness, and then sweeten with more sugar and apple juice before drinking. Lidl do a cloudy, "naturally slowly pressed", Apple Juice. Which tastes brilliant as apple juice (and is my personal preference for flavouring/diluting the final brew). Its still pretty cheap. However, I think I actually prefer the flavour of cider made with the cheaper juice. But I use the cloudy juice for sorbets.
IMHO. it makes sense to get to grips with the fermentation side before starting to fuss with sourcing and pressing barrowloads of apples. Downstream vertical integration is for the future! |
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| james_so |
Re: Easy, Cider!
When using carton juice for brewing check the ingredients & packaging, no preservatives, no added sugar and pure 100% juice is the order of the day. I think to decide which is the best juice to use we would need to get together and have a tasting testing session
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| Treacodactyl |
Welcome kegmar. I've not got much to add to the previous replies. I've used Waitrose pure apple juice with no added sugar and that came out well. I'd suggest starting with a simple, cheap, pure apple juice for the first dj and if it goes well then try adding some different juices to the base juice. | ||||||
| kegmar |
Folks,
Thats top advice & kinda confirms what I originally thought. I agree with the comments from Dougal about getting to grips with the fermentation side of things before getting too bogged down with the detail!! I've been making my own wines and beers for a while now but never ventured to anything...apple-based! Surprising really given that its probably one of the most traditionally "english" flavours! As luck would have it, I live about 4 minutes from my nearest Lidl store!! Just purchased 6 cartons of their "Naturally Pressed Apple Juice - cloudy" made by SOLEVITA (for those who want to know ) - 5 cartons for the brew and one for me!
No Added sugar No preservatives A Little added Vitamin C Consume within 3 days ...and at 79p per litre, Im laughing!
pic below 
Gona be starting the brew tonight I think...so if I can sort out my digi cam, I'll try and post a pic or two of how the process evolves... (I take it this forum alllows pics...) Thanks for the info folks and as for that tasting session... well, need I say any more?
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| tahir |
We welcome them |
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| dougal |
As per stuff previously posted, 4 litres is plenty in a demijon to start with. It does froth up. Let that subside before you add the last half litre... I tried some with bread yeast (which I believe to be very similar to beer yeast) and I thought the taste with a wine yeast was better. But its good to try things and see what matters to you. The cheap juice, wine yeast + pectinase works for me. Of course your mileage may vary. Enjoy! Cheers! |
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| kegmar |
Started the "Lidl-Homebrew-Cider"...
1) - Sterilised all equipment including Demijohn, bung & air-trap. I use VWP sterilising powder...goes a lot longer than the liquid stuff I find! 
2) - Check ingredients including 4 x 1L cartons of "SOLEVITA" apple juice, Wine Yeast (enough for 1 Gallon), Pectolase Ensyme (1 tspn) & 200g Sugar 
3) - Emptied & rinsed equipment thouroughly & poured in 4 Litres of apple juice, sugar, yeast (prepared in 50ml warm water for 10mins) and pectolase. Inserted bung and Hey Presto! 
Got it ticking over on a fermentation hot-plate so let see how it goes! kegmar
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| James |
You can keep your cider from becoming bone-dry by racking while there’s still a healthy head of foam, then again when the yeast starts to settle, and again at the very end.
The theory is a little “techy”, but here it is anyway With “real” juice, (I’ve not tried using carton juice, but its probably the same…)you’ll find a huge dark brown gloopy head develops early in the fermentation ( 24 –48 hours in). This is tannin forming big complex chemicals with pectin. This happens at the same time that oxygen is used up in the fermentation, and is also associated with a change in colour in the must from dark to light brown. This foaming head contains a lot of nutrient. If left, some of this foam sticks to the demijohn as dark brown crud, but the rest drops back into the fermenting liquid and feeds the yeast. So if you syphon off at this early stage, you’ll be left with a nutrient deplete fermentation, not something that is usually wanted, but in this case, its quite good.. Most nutrient is needed at the beginning of fermentation to get the yeast multiplying vigorously- that happened before the foaming head formed (0-24 hours). Once the yeast has rapidly multiplied, it doenst need a huge amount of nutrient. So you’ve got a huge amount of young healthy yeast cells in your must, ready to ferment out most of the sugar. They wont ferment out all the sugar for two reasons. Firstly, they’re use to low alcohol content, so by the time you get to 6-7% ABV, they’re struggling. Secondly, they’re use to an environment rich in sugar, were lazy yeasts can easily gobble up loads up food. What normally happens in nutrient rich must is that a second generation of yeast is “budded” off this first genneration. These new kids on the block grow up in an environment where alcohol is common and sugar is rare- these new young yeasts clean up the last of the sugars. But this second generation cant grow- the first generation has used up all the dissolved nutrients and you’ve taken away the spare stuff. So towards the end of fermentation, as the sugars become harder to find, the fermentation will begin to fail, and yeasts will start to die and fall to the bottom. Now there’s another nutrient source- the dead bodies of old yeast cells. Yeast can undergo “autolysis” (cannibalism) to get enough food to finish fermenting the last few sugars. This isn’t good, for the following reasons- 1) you don’t want the last few sugars to be fermented 2) if autolysis occurs, your likely to have bad tastes and smells in you cider- like you’ve dropped a dead mouse in to drink 3)cannibalism is illegal So rack off the cider as soon as a yeast sediment starts to settle, while the must is still cloudy. The remaining yeast will now have nothing to autolyse, and these will soon also give up, and die. Rack this again to leave a clear cider that’s not to dry. Having said all this, I like dry cider (& I'm lazy), so I miss out the first racking, only undertaking rackings 2&3. Two other interesting points- 1) if the tannin and pectin react together properly to form the big gloopy dark brown foam, you shouldn’t need pectic enzyme- the tannin takes care of the pectin naturally (this is why bitter apples are useful), leaving a clear cider 2) the last sugars to ferment are the hardest ones for yeast to work on- the more complex ones. These often produce alcohols other than ethanol (like methanol & butanol). They're more toxic & result in bad hangovers. |
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| kegmar |
"Lidl-Cider" next stage...As promised...next part of the step by step Lidl-Cider challenge! Possibly the cheapest cider you can make (without an orchard that is!)Once the cider has shown the final signs of secondary fermentation, approx 6 days later, its time to SYPHON and leave behind the SEDIMENT... that stuff is narly and bound to give it an even more bitter taste than its probably gone have! Using a syphon tube, and a second STERLISED DEMIJOHN, transfer the brew slowing down approx 3 inches above the sediment layer and leaving it behind. 
You WILL sacrifice a little cider to ensure the clearing process is efficient and the taste as crisp as possible. Re-attach the water-lock and leave for a couple of weeks to clear. After a few days, it is drinkable, but would benefit from a little maturing. more to come when its settling... cheers [SORRY BOUT THE BIG PICS...COULDNT RESIZE THEM FOR SOME REASON!) |
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| Arjan |
Kegmar, how's your cider doing now, is it settling?
I can't wait to try this myself. Somehow I got the feeling that Santa will give me two demijohns this Christmas. They were just too big to hide them properly
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| kegmar |
cider updateHey....The cider is settling nicely... after the initial transfer, there is only about 1mm of sediment in the demijohn. Im presuming that xmas day shall be the virgin tasting!! Hopefully a little snow to cool it down outside too! Im told that the cider by it's very nature shall never become completely clear, but I kinda like the cloudy look to owd fashioned scrumpy! Judging from the smell, it's going to be rather tart....Im keeping my sweetener at hand just in case! Just finished my 5 gallon of Rioja Tinto, another 5 gallon of Chenin Blanc & finally my 5 gallon australian pale-ale... personal favourites... Xmas is coming early in my household! pics to come when bottling... Enjoy yours buddy!! |
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| kegmar |
tested the owd "lidl-Cider" last nighted... just a little from the demijohn....
[cough cough] certainly needs a little sweetner! Wow... What a Tang!! anybody else found the same? perhaps fridge temperature would help? kegmar |
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| Arjan |
I just started my brew two days ago, with 4ltr of the cheaper Lidl apple juice and 1g of Cider Yeast. The first day nothing happened really, so the second day I added a dsp of sugar. Today there's a big layer of froth on top of the juice. | ||||||
| dougal |
As previously noted, if you ferment to dryness, the result will be... dry! Killing the fermentation before all the sugar has gone is one way to get a sweeter result. Killing the yeast, after its run out of sugar, and *then* adding sugar/fresh juice is stronger and nicer. Or just sweeten to taste in the glass before drinking! Using Lidl's cheaper juice (1.5 litre packs) with a touch of Pectinase, I get a bright clear result. And a cider that tastes more to my liking than the cider from the more expensive juice - though no question the cloudy juice is splendid apple juice - IMHO its not so well suited to cider-making... Something I mean to try is adding more sugar to the ferment, little by little (week by week), until the yeast drowns in its own alcohol. Excess sugar could then stay as sugar and a sweet, strong, apple wine should result. Diluting that with apple juice before drinking should give rather an 'interesting' cider, I'd hope...
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| kegmar |
Dougal,
thanks for the tips... I had a friend around for new years eve last night and he tested the cider for a "second opinion" (and an excuse to revel the new year !) His verdict was a little more optimistic than mine, but then again, we had been on the vintage port and stilton for a few hours which I suppose could cloud the tastebuds as well as the senses! ** Happy New Year To Everyone At Downsizer By The Way **
Its certainly drinkable, but my amateurish ways led me to ensure it has a good few weeks to "clear" and its probably this which has made it a little drier than anticipated. I like the idea of cutting back the fermentation.I guess with a little practise and a good degree of hydrometer usage, reducing the fermentation would not have too much of an impact on the overall alcohol volume. I am somewhat reluctant to use sweetener as I would like to think its certainly possible to get a promised result by trial and error (alongside good quality ingredients!) I dont know why, but I felt its kinda like "cheating"...hehe...
....although I have enjoyed many a "cheated" brew over the years! I have never thought of adding more apple juice to the finished brew...this could certainly make things more suited to the pallate. Im to be starting another demijohn or two soon, so I'll be aiming to log any findings I may have... ...The Lidl-Cider Challenge continues...!! Thanks Again Kegmar [/b]
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| James |
you could always use lactose, or milk sugar: a non fermentable sugar sold in home brew shops. Never used it myslef, but if I were to sweeten, I’d use this stuff over saccharin. | ||||||
| countryman |
Have decided to throw my hat into the ring as regards the "Lidil cider challenge"
However, ive already deviated slightly as ive found 4 litres of pure apple juice in Morrisons for £2.50
Anyway havnt brewed in about twelve months due to house move so im currently trying to locate all my kit and have made a trip this afternoon to the home brew shop for some champagne yeast. Unfortunately, while i was there a certain beer kit caught my eye"Woodfordes-Wherry" A favourite of mine in the local pub so i thought id give it a go. Somone mentioned this kit earlier in this thread, how did it compsre to the draught pint? Thanks for the inspiration within this thread guys ill keep you posted on the results. |
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| Arjan |
Activity in my brew stopped after about a week. It was still very cloudy. Just now, I noticed it is starting to clear. I'll give it another week or to and then I'll bottle it. | ||||||
| dougal |
It really does help to use a little enzyme to deal with the by products of pectin. I think it was about £1.25 in Wilkinson's for what looks to be enough to deal with more than 20 gallons of cider... And I don't see it as being any less 'natural' than adding a bit of sugar. |
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| Arjan |
Does affect the taste at all, or does it only make the cider clear? |
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| dougal |
IMHO it just drops the cloudiness. If it changes the flavour at all, it would only be because you were missing the taste of those finely divided solids that are the cloudiness. Try it with just one gallon if you doubt me...
The main aspect of cloudiness, in my own experience, is that people are much more reluctant to accept the offer of a glass of home-brewed cider if its cloudy, than if it is 'bright' and clear. Though that just might be a good reason for making cloudy stuff...
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| Fee |
I (along with a few others) got really ratted on our current batch of EZ Cider at New Year...though we did add vodka to it!
I was happily drinking just plain old cider, when somebody told me about a cocktail which is cider and vodka, so decided to try it with some cannabis flavoured vodka somebody had given me for Christmas....and it was fantastic! Well, this was after a few bottles of fizz and several pints of cider, so I shouldn't really recommend it too much The cannabis vodka does have a nice spicy taste to it anyway, which was nice with the dry cider.
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