| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| bodger |
Orchards under threathttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/8015045.stmThis is a subject very close to my heart. Whilst I'm doing my bit by planting apple and pear trees, hundreds of acres of orchard are being grubbed out every year. Orchards are magical places and its a crime that we are losing so many, especially when we are importing thousands of tons from abroad. A good opportunity to save all those air miles that people keep harping on about. If ever there was a case for ' Buying British', then surely this is it. Look at the pictures, surely this is something worth saving. I'm certainly going to be planting more trees next winter. 
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| wipka84 |
They had a little piece about this on BBC Radio 4 this morning around 7:30 am.
Do your bit and plant five trees in pots and create an Orchard. |
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| Lorrainelovesplants |
There used to be a government backed scheme trying to restore old/start new orchard initiatives (I think it may have been UK wide, but certainly there was contacts in devon), but this appears to have ceased a few years ago.
Due to the changing climate and reawakened interest in archards surely a good time for the government to 'throw' some money at a worthwhile scheme like this instead of encouraging us all to buy a new car........ |
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| ksia |
Lovely pix. Important topic. | ||||
| wipka84 |
I think English Heritage are funding £500,000 for small orchards, those in peoples gardens and communal parks rather than commercial enterprises, or so they said. | ||||
| Mary-Jane |
Yes, I heard that too and thought it was rather good. I'm glad to say that we've just planted 5 fruit trees 
A neighbour of ours found an aerial photo of our place in the 1960s which clearly shows the orchard that we knew existed, but we were told that it was dug up during that decade. There's only one damson tree left from the original orchard - so we're doing our bit. |
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| Nick |
Herefordshire council run (ran?) a scheme where you could buy two year old trees, of older apple/pear varieties for planting in your orchard. They were full size stock, rather than garden sized, and you got a tree, a tie, a stake and a mulch mat for about £8. We got several, and thanks to OP and various other sources, we've put around 20 trees into our orchard.
Half the issue is they don't make money. Round here you get paid bugger all for apples, and we're in the heart of cider country, so farmers let them fall over, and/or grub them up. |
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| Mary-Jane |
Oh absolutely...I understand that. If we can get some fruit trees going I'd like to turn the fruit *into* something that is saleable. |
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| Nick |
As an irrelevant aside, does anyone know of a species of duck that eats windfall apples? | ||||
| Mary-Jane |
 That's a title of a new thread methinks...
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| sally_in_wales |
is it still done/allowed to let pigs into orchards briefly to eat windfalls? I appreciate that given a bit more time they do damage, but am I right in thinking that they first hoover up the easy bits before starting on roots etc? | ||||
| marigold |
My landlord won't let me plant trees in my garden  .
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| yummersetter |
Am I the only one who thinks the first picture on the BBC site is an ornamental non-fruiting double cherry? As in, what comes up if you type 'blossom' into a search engine and grab the first picture.
And the National Trust and the BBC aren't giving any information about how you get your hands on this money ( guess who's hoping to plant a new 1 acre orchard soon?) I think I'll go and see if Orangepippin knows any details |
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| vegplot |
These people seem to think so... http://www.orchardpig.co.uk |
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| wipka84 |
Plant in big pots? can that be done with fruit trees? |
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| hamster |
I rather rashly bought a plum tree which is in a big pot in my garden and seems to be quite happy there. You need a small rootstock and it will need to be planted out eventually, but it should be fine for a few years. I'll let you know if I get any plums. |
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| yummersetter |
on the Today programme this morning they said there would be more about this on 'You and Yours' today - now 12 to 1pm - on radio 4
just remembered, so I may have missed that section of the programme but it'll be replayable |
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| cab |
Reminds me of a Ministry of Agriculture and Fisheries pamphlet I read, dated from 1946 I think. The government had gone to tree producers and come up with a very short shortlist of tree varieties to concentrate on to maximise yield. We must have lost a heck of a lot of diversity in our orchards after that; and of course, as new and exciting varieties came in from overseas we lacked the strength in depth of apple varieties in commercial cultivation to compete.
Got 6 fruit trees down on the allotment, four in pots at home. Varieties picked 'cos I like them (Elstar, Bramleys Seedling), local conditions (Cambridge Gage, Chivers Delight), usefulness and to spread the season (Beauty of Bath and Damson Merryweather), and because I couldn't help myself (that explains the peach, the apricot and the cherry... as well as the walnut tree in a pot and the little dwarf apple that someone gave up on 'cos it was dying). |
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| cab |
Thus far it has worked in my garden to produce fruit from a cherry, a peach and a dwarf apple. The Apricot is growing nicely but resolutely refusing to fruit, we may have to have words. |
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| yummersetter |
'A £268,000 grant from Natural England will pay for a dedicated National Trust orchard officer as part of the UK Biodiversity Action Plan's efforts to safeguard endangered British habitats.'
Oh, right, then not a lot of help with my tree planting there - better leave a big parking space for the Orchard Inspector's Roller 
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| yummersetter |
oh and Sky TV used that 'cherry blossom in front of castle' picture on their website as an apple orchard illustration | ||||
| marigold |
I'm tempted to try a cherry in a big pot. Bit late for this year, I suppose? | ||||
| cab |
Wouldn't be ideal this late. Mines happy at the moment, but remember that even a little cherry tree wants to grow like a weed. Dunno how well mine will be in a couple more years time. Have to wait and see 
At the moment though, its just flowered and it has baby cherries on it. Lots at present. |
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| bodger |
One of my favourite haunts. Broom farm in Peterstowe. They produce cider and pery along with a bit of other diversification.
These pictures wer taken early last summer The cider and perry orchards are in full bloom. 
Since our last visit, the Broome Farm pig population has gone up dramatically. Nothing to do with me, I hasten to add, :smt046 
The Llamas. 
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| marigold |
In theory I should have moved house by the end of the year, so it's probably best to wait. |
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| Lorrainelovesplants |
£268,000 for a officer (as in one, single ) is a wage Id like to have.
How can they justify this? Even if he does have a little vehicle and a small office, its a helluva sum. I want grant money to plant a small orchard! 
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| yummersetter |
could be she
we could apply
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| yummersetter |
oops forgot all about Downsizing for a minute there, must have been thinking about swimming pools | ||||
| Green Rosie |
Planted a small orchad when we moved here - various apples (7 I think), 2 plum, 2 pear, 2 cherry, a medlar and a crab-apple. We took all the fruits off last year to help the trees grow but are hoping for our first fruit harvest this year. | ||||
| lottie |
If you buy it in a pot from a nursery/garden centre rather than bare rooted then the timing doesn't matter. |
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| orangepippin |
Re: Orchards under threat
I agree with the spirit of what you are saying, but the hard economic facts are that other countries with cheaper land costs, better horticultural systems, top notch researhc and educational institutions, cheaper labour, and above all better weather can produce apples and ship them here more cheaply than we can produce them locally. One of the most popular varieties on my website is Pink Lady, which will indeed grow in the UK but will not ripen, we simply do not get enough sunlight here. And although the statistics are questionable, I recall recently that New Zealand apple growers reckoned their product had less climate impact even when shipped to the UK than the same apples grown here - debateable, but probably something in it. Having said all that, these arguments are based on commercial economics. If growing for personal useand cutting out the supermarket then 5-10 medium-sized apple trees in a garden or allotment can easily keep a family supplied with apples from July to January - with far less effort (in my opinion) than messing around growing potatoes or onions. For the rest of the year you'll have to get them from New Zealand though! |
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| orangepippin |
True, but anything on sale now is likely to be remnants from last summer that has not yet sold, or un-sold bare-root stock which has been potted. I reckon better to wait until later in the summer when garden centres will have new stock and you'll be able to pick the strongest-looking specimens. Incidentally, although dwarf rootstocks are often recommended for growing in patio containers, there is also an argument that vigourous rootstocks do better - they are more tolerant of difficult conditions and the container will restrict their size. |
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| cassy |
Re: Orchards under threat
We have those 3 in this country too. They're just sadly not looking at and investing in apples anymore. |
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| tahir |
Re: Orchards under threat
Which country? Apart from berries we do bugger all research into fruit anymore (not enough to be worthwhile anyway). The last proper top fruit programme at East Malling (cheries under Ken Tobutt) was disbanded last year, as was the broadleaves for timber which also dealt with walnuts. East Malling were on the brink of having the genetic basis to introduce some useful new cherry cultivars as well as new rootstocks but it won't be happening. DEFRA is paying for genotyping of the Brogdale collection, but only as a memorial to what we once had, not an aid for future research. All the new commercial top fruit cultivars are from breeding programmes in other countries, likewise rootstocks. |
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| Nick |
Have we looked at how many years this sum covers? Let's pretend it's one person and an office job to support them, for five years, with a small car and tiny office thrown in. Suddenly becomes much less shocking as a figure. Perhaps its for ten years? |
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| marigold |
Re: Orchards under threat
Or go without!  Good point about self-sufficiency in apples being more effort-effective than growing spuds or onions though - an article with guidelines about varieties, storage etc might be helpful?
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| hamster |
It also costs a lot more to employ someone than just what you pay them as a salary - tax, NI, insurance, pension, benefits, admin, office costs, etc. |
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| Lorrainelovesplants |
I hadnt thought of it running for 10 yars - put in that contaxt its not a great sum,but I do wish that some of the convergence money was ploughted back into small producers. | ||||
| Treacodactyl |
For the moment at least the only hope I can see is private people looking after orchards purely for love and not money.
I said it before I think one solution is for people to co-operate and arrange to keep some of the rarer cultivars alive. Anyone know if such an organisation exists? |
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| Lorrainelovesplants |
I would like to personallythank Orange Pippin for the two lovely apple trees that i got from him earlier in the year. They are both thriving and look lovely. They are in pride of place next to my polytunnel, (in much deeper groundand more sheltered than the ones out in the front).
Any more going next year? Be delighted to take them (she adds hopefully).
The ones we bought from LIDL and Morrisons are also doing great. The 2 bought from Adams Apple last year (ie been in the ground a year already) just arnt really romping on as i would have liked. Got a total of 15 fruit trees now, and room for another 15. |
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| lottie |
Saw 2 lovely red devil apple trees in Morrisons the other week for £4.99---tempted, but it's lateon now and we now have 100 assorted fruit and nut trees planted out the back or inherited so that should be enough for our bees.
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| Nick |
I've got room in the Rubber Chicken Cider orchard for plenty more trees, and I'll gladly home them for people.
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| bodger |
I put 8 of those in last December. I paid a bit less than you. |
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| tahir |
EEAOP is one: http://www.applesandorchards.org.uk/ |
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| yummersetter |
I had a Trojan warning when I tried this link | ||||
| tahir |
Dunno why, no probs that I can see. |