| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| marigold |
Perennial vegetablesI was perusing some old copies of Permaculture mag and reading about Patrick Whitefield's "Minimalist Garden". http://www.permaculture-magazine.co.uk/articles/archive/article_10b.htmlI want to make my garden more useful and less work so I thought perennial veg would be a good idea, but where do I get them from??? I've tracked down sea beet seeds, and hopefully I can beg for ramsoms, but the perennial kale seems very elusive. Does anyone on DS grow it? Or know where I can get my paws on some? Any other suggestions? Has anyone tried the nine star broccoli that you can get from the OG catalogue? |
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| TAVASCAROW |
Try Chiltern seeds they seem to have just about everything.
http://www.edirectory.co.uk/chilternseeds/ 
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| marigold |
Nice site, but no perennial kale  . I think I might ask the man himself!
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| gil |
Scorzonera and skirret available from realseeds (I think), Garden Organic, and probably the likes of Suttons these days.
Someone told me they'd got some kind of perennial cabbage (is this the kale ??) from realseeds, but I've not checked it out myself. Jerusalem artichokes are fairly perennial, in that persistent kind of way. |
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| cab |
Sorrel is a great perennial.
Theres a perennial cauliflower/broccoli, called 'nine star perennial' I think, but you have to get all the flower shoots off it to keep it going. Sea kale is a perennial, is that whats being referred to here? As Gil said, Jerusalem artichokes are 'perennial' in that they're ineradicable unless you follow them with something to completely shade them out, and of course globe artichokes persist for years too. |
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| cab |
Nice plant is skirret, but theres an art to keeping it going from year to year (as I'm learning, now in my second year with only half of the roots I replanted this year 'taking'). |
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| cab |
Oh, and sorry to drone on and keep bombarding this topic with posts, but is it really much or any less work to grow perennial veg? | ||||
| LynneA |
I'm in the process of adding perennial veg beds to the new allotment. The plan is for two beds - one for shade tolerant plants and another for those needing full sun.
If using the Forest Garden model, the rampant self-seeding attributes of rocket, spinach and (from personal experience) Carouby de Mausanne mange tout peas are also called into play. Having done a stack check over the weekend, it would seem that one my the main sources has been Pennard Plants, who usually have a stand at the RHS Westminster shows. http://www.pennardplants.com/ |
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| marigold |
No idea - I want to try growing some perennial green veg, but researching and sourcing the stuff to grow seems quite time-consuming compared to buying "normal" annual seed! Perennial kale (possibly aka wild cabbage) isn't the same as sea kale. Brassica oleracea as opposed to Crambe maritima. |
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| cab |
Ahh, yes, I've looked at the article now  
Wild cabbage is kind of, sort of perennial... But also kind of sort of not. Its usually a short lived perennial on cliffs and by the sea, and its nice enough, but I'd be nervous of growing it as a perennial because the older plants are often rather ropey, a little bitter, even rather diseased at times. |
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| TAVASCAROW |
When I did a search for Brassica oleracea one of the links came up with the walking stick cabbage.
Not sure if they are one & the same but seeds for walking stick cabbage are available.
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| cab |
Thats from the Channel Islands. Its quite a curiosity, you grow it, you dry the long stem out for a year or so, and carefully carve it as a walking stick. |
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| tahir |
Orach is good for self seeding everywhere, so would leeks be given the chance, I've had a (small) semi permanent garlic bed before, just leave a few bulbs in every year | ||||
| Slim |
like walking stick kale (probably the same plant really), where you dig a hole next to it, and force the stem into and back out of the hole to form the "J" for the cane handle? |
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| Slim |
so many different alliums that like to reproduce. Hard to get large bulbs, but quantity certainly.
walking onions, shallots, etc... |
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| marigold |
All these brassicas are getting too confusing! I think I'll go and sow some perpetual spinach instead  . Walking stick cabbage might be useful in a small garden though...
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| cab |
I didn't know thats how you make the handles, but yes, I think thats the same plant. Got sent some seeds for free a year or two ago, think they went to another Downsizer somewhere or other in one of the many seed packs sent out here. |
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| gil |
The Jersey walking stick cabbage takes up quite a lot of room for the food you'd get off it, and it's not perennial AFAIK. As I see it, 'tis something to grow once out of curiosity. | ||||
| Slim |
I didn't think it was perennial either, but curiosity is exactly why I've always wanted to grow one....
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| tahir |
I let some komatsuna flower earlier in the season, lots of little plants appearing now. | ||||
| Mrs Fiddlesticks |
do you mean those 'tree onions' whereby little bulblet onions grow on the end of the stalks? Think they're called something else as well but forget what. I'd love to grow those - where would I get seeds/bulbs for them? |
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| marigold |
They sound fun - various suppliers if you google, but some clunky websites! |
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| Treacodactyl |
Great minds... http://forum.downsizer.net/viewtopic.php?t=1146 | ||||
| mark |
Re: Perennial vegetables
I think perennial veg are great ! Th eclassics are asparagus and globe artichokes both of which i grow. However are they les work than other veg? Probably not. You stil have to weed and feed and clean the beds. The only bit of the process you get to escape from is sowing! However it is reasonably easy to clean a bed which is finished - whereas bes with perennial mean you need to continue weeding roudn stuff which is harder work Growign perennial is great = but not necessarily a work saver marl |
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| marigold |
I did read that, but decided to start again as it was quite a while ago and thought there might be more expertise accumulated by now . And I want some perennial kale not sea kale! Though no doubt it will be a terrible disappointment if I ever do track some down  .
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| Slim |
I think whether or not perennial vegetables are more or less work depends on how you do it. If you let things naturalize in a forest garden, than they should be less work, once established. (though establishing them might be difficult) They are better for your soil, require less external inputs undoubtedly. | ||||
| Quail By Mail |
I've had a wild rocket plant for two years and see no reason why I can't over winter it outside again this year. | ||||
| James |
walking onions (tree onions, Egyptian onions, topset onions, sold here ) will naturalise in you garden easily, or havest the pickled onion size bulbs and store a few to start again next year.
Chard can easily take over a bed if left to got to seed- I've got chard popping up all over the place (incuding the patio where I thrashed the seed). Similarly, red orach will self seed easily and naturalise. Good king Henry is a good plant to fill a shady corner, and can be used as an alternative to spinach or a salad leaf. Mine is two years old and just starting to look established. I had a cabbage ("Mini-Cole F1") that was 3 years old when I finally dug it up (it was far from dead at this point). After cutting the small round head initially, I left the roots in the ground and it sent out 4 branches. These eventually flowered and fell over. Some of the flowers and stems got mown by the lawn mower, producing further branching along the remaining stems. It survived two winters, and each spring started producing small round heads on the ends of the numerous sprawling branches. I'd say it'd be worth seeing what can be achieved with growing ball-head, winter hardy cabbage as a short lived perrenial. You may find, however that the yield per square metre is much lower than with annual grown brassicas |
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| mark |
the "perennial" solution is fruit trees and bushes. Blackcurrant blackberry rasperry ,gooseberries.. and samll apple pear trees.
Strawberries too though if you gor then year after year you do have to have a method of rejuvinating the bed to keep the fruitful. mke sure you got some rhubarb in - that just produces without much trouble not what we normally think of "perennials" but they are really The main thing with all these along with asparagus and artichokes (globe) and anythig that will stay put is it pays to prepare the ground before you put them in and make sure it is abolutely weed free and full of organic matter and nutrients that will feed the plant (and you ) through its lifetime |