pricey
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Pork Pie's...I have been asked if I would like to sell them at the Farmers Markets around here 
I went to the local one today and got talking to this man called Paul who was selling Chicken sangers, loverly they were to had some for tea, and he asked me.
The thing is I have never done anything like this before, costing etc... Should I make my big one's and sell them in slices, quarters halves and a whole one, or should I try to make them smaller?
I know I have to cost them out, going to make one next week and do the sums.
How much would you lot pay for a slice of pie, or a whole one come to that? I have seen them at different markets and they all seem way to expensive for what they are.
Do you think I have bitten off more than I can chew?
Be honest now please.
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sean
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I *think* that you have to get your kitchen approved before you can sell cooked stuff at farmers' markets. Dunno how hard/easy that is.
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Bebo
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Better check out if there are any environmental health requirements if you are making them at home to sell. Think you might need to do a food hygiene course or something.
Editted to add: Looks like I double posted with Sean.
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chez
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I think the food hygiene thing is necessary. I'm not sure about the kitchen approval thing - when my Ma used to do it, they came round and checked every so often. Pookie or Mochyn would be the people to ask.
No, I don't think it's more than you can chew, at all. Pookie says it's MUCH more profitable to sell her cakes in slices rather than whole ones.
Perhaps PM her?
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sean
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gil would probably know too, since she runs one.
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chez
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That would seem logical  .
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Behemoth
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The hygiene thing is pretty straight forward, a standard kitchen is OK. Local env health will have leaflets and hopefully be helpful, ours were.
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lettucewoman
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I got a load of forms from the farmers marke in Lymington when I wanted to sell my fudge..they wanted a hygiene cert and EH certificate if memory serves..
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pricey
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See I knew you would all be most helpful 
I have a hygiene cert, so I just need to get the EH one, question is what do they look for? a clean kitchen? all stainless? Going to make some calls on Monday me thinks.
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chez
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In my mother's case, they seemed to think that a rabbit living behind the refrigerator whilst she was cooking was unacceptable.
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Pilsbury
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depending on how much you want to be doing will depend on what you will need, pork pies would be considered high risk as once it is cooked it will not be re heated so its a much stricter standard to stick to.
some of the requirements would *probably* be 2 sinks, one for equipment one for hands, a sink and a half might be acceptable, sutible refridgeration and storage, pest proof and free, if you have pets you will need at the least a method of excluding them from the area during perperation, cooking and storage. an understanding of the methods and processes involves in the product you will be making to the extent you can write or have written and understand a Hazard analysis & critical Control points ( HACCP) sheet and to compleate sutible record for temperature control and storage.
you *probably* wont need stainless kitchen, professional equipment or specilest training.
It is perfectly possabal to get home approval without to much work BUT you really really must understand the paperwork is as important as the cooking in keeping up to standards, especially with high risk foods
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tahir
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Re: Pork Pie's... | pricey wrote: | How much would you lot pay for a slice of pie, or a whole one come to that? I have seen them at different markets and they all seem way to expensive for what they are.
Do you think I have bitten off more than I can chew?
Be honest now please. |
You have to charge as much as the consumer will pay. There will be weeks when you lose money (e.g. when noone turns up cos of rain/snow/the fa cup etc), this means that you need to have accumulated some profit to keep you ticking over. Don't think you're doing anyone a favour by being cheap, if your product's good then it's in everybody's interest to pay you a fair price for it.
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jema
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Yes indeed, unless you are raking it in to a silly degree you absolutely must price for maximum profit when selling to the public.
If you don't you will soon end up failing.
Of course the maximum profit level is only going to be achieved at a price where you can actually sell your stock, so it is limited.
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Fee
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That's great, Pricey, slices sound like a good idea for people buying on the day to eat, then varying sizes of whole ones for them to take away.
Not sure about price, what do your local butcher charge? Also, once the public taste them they'll be seeking them out at the next farmers market I can see a tray of little pieces being given away to passers-by working well the first time!
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twoscoops
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A friend makes pork pies in her shop and sells individuals as well as slices from a large one. If the pies are your core business then you may decide that it is worth slicing for customers. I choose only to sell whole ones which are £1.85 for what we call picnic (for one person) and £3.95 for a 1lb pie. At Christmas I sell 2lb and 3lb pies but only to order. Game pies and chicken and ham with cranberry topping are roughly 20% more expensive. I have no idea what the supermarkets charge for pork pies, basic or premium, because nobody has ever suggested that mine are expensive - I even have a customer who sends his chauffer up from London to collect them.
As a manufacturer you must look to make a healthy profit selling direct to the consumer - I would say that 65% GP should be your absolute minimum as you will have wastage. Also, you may get to a point where you can increase production and have a delivery round to pubs, delis and farm shops. You will then have to sell considerably lower to them than you do at farmers markets so they can make a decent profit also - thier orders will be confirmed stock leaving your kitchen and they will take on the risk for wastage. So, lets say a 1lb pie costs you £1, you can sell it for £2.95 and make a good margin. You can wholesale it for £1.85 and still make 45% and the retaler can sell it on at £3.50 and also make a good margin.
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RichardW
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| Pilsbury wrote: | | BUT you really really must understand the paperwork is as important as the cooking in keeping up to standards, especially with high risk foods |
Now I have to disagree with that.
(it is what the EHO thinks but I think they have it all wrong)
Having worked in some places that had perfect paper work (mainly BIG chains) but in practice the actual operations were dangerous. THE most important thing is what & how you do it not keeping correctly filed paper work that does not match your working practises. I know that now days its all about tracability & documentation but unless the actual workers follow it its not worth a rat shit. I have had some EHO inspections when they have not even looked at the food area & just looked at the paper work, that breeds contempt. We need a more balanced view (not just in catering either to many jobs are now about documentation & not actualy doing it).
Richard
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Pilsbury
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true but what im saying is if you dont understand the paperwork side the EHO will not approve you, ask Bloke off the telly, you have to have enough understanding to prove you know what will cause harm and what you will be doing to prevent it, the documentation to prove you are doing what you say you will.
Edited to add
as you say its what the EHO thinks and its them you need to say yes in the first place
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pricey
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Right EHO phoned and forms are on the way, as long as she wote the adwess wight, ok mr pice 
I was thinking 65-70% GP going to start pricing up today.
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twoscoops
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EHO are box-tickers, they are just doing thier job. Be nice to them, follow thier advice and you will find that they largely leave you alone.
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pricey
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Right I now know how much they cost to make right down to the last grain of salt. I just need to make one and slice it, I was thinking maybe 6oz slices, what do you lot think?
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twoscoops
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If you slice I think you should consider your target market. They may want different sized slices which is great when someone asks for a big slice and not so great when you get a little old lady who wants 50g because she's on her own. If you are going for a uniform portion your spend per customer and cash margin might be better from selling whole pies of different sizes. And don't forget the add-ons, chutney, mustard, pickled veg etc.
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Pilsbury
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how big is that? The weight seems right as a portion but it will depend a bit on the size it comes out at.
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alison
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Why not invest in a set of scales, and cut to order.
You can always have some sliced up bits wrapped ready to go, but when I went to the market, selling, the lady who cut cheese for people, next to me, had a chance to chat about her product and catch the add ons too.
You could have pie of the month, with a different flavour, as well as the plain regular one.
Definately go with the relish and chutney route too.
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gil
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Missed this thread - Pilsbury's advice re hygiene and EH is sound.
Keep records of each batch you make [date, recipe, ingredient quantities, method, yield in number/weight, etc, where and when you sold that batch - traceability] - handwritten in a hardback notebook that you won't lose is good.
EH are very helpful. Being 'sensible', knowing what you're doing, understanding the process, keeping records.... all help you pass the kitchen inspection.
re sinks : I've got a double in the kitchen but use both sides for prepping. Which I guess I was allowed to do cos my handwashing sink is in the downstairs cloakroom, and I wash up utensils in the pantry sink.
Stainless is not obligatory for working surfaces in a domestic kitchen. Colour-coded chopping board might be a good idea.
If you have existing floor-covering in good nick, they won't make you rip it out - just a proviso that if it needs renewing you will use something more acceptable next time. e.g. I've got carpet tiles, and that was OK.
You will need to look into labelling and packaging requirements, for both the whole pies and the slices - it will be different for each - Trading Standards (now part of EH) are the folk to speak to.
Meat content : EH/TS can advise, if you need to state this. Some will tell you how to work out the %, or do it for you.
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Penny Outskirts
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I'm not surprised Pricey - you're pork pies are just the best
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pricey
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Wow so much positive feed back A big thank you everyone.
The little side lines sound good as well I never thought of that.
So much to think about and paperwork  not very good at that, those that know me will tell you that.
As for a clean and tidy kitchen I think were OK with that one 
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alison
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If you didn't want to do your own chutneys etc, you may be able to join up with someone, and share the cost of the stall.
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pricey
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| alison wrote: | | If you didn't want to do your own chutneys etc, you may be able to join up with someone, and share the cost of the stall. |
Well I was having Coffee with LW on Sunday, and a few things were popping up, we could have a mixed DS chutney stall.
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Pilsbury
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if you need any help with regards to your HACCP let me know, i have written a couple and will do what I can to help
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Penny Outskirts
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| pricey wrote: | | As for a clean and tidy kitchen I think were OK with that one |
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RichardW
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| Pilsbury wrote: | true but what im saying is if you dont understand the paperwork side the EHO will not approve you, ask Bloke off the telly, you have to have enough understanding to prove you know what will cause harm and what you will be doing to prevent it, the documentation to prove you are doing what you say you will.
Edited to add
as you say its what the EHO thinks and its them you need to say yes in the first place |
Absolutly right. In fact I would go as far as making sure that you know more about it than the EHO. Do your home work, read ALL the regs. Have a list of questions for them & a list that you think they will ask you. Then find the answers your self so you are ready for them. Then when you ask a question & they try to BS you you can quote them the regs. That way when you ask them stuff its not cos you need the answer its so that they know that you know your stuff & basicaly you are just telling them what you will be doing.
Richard
OH & home kitchens have a complete dif set of rules to follow. Also can you use the 5 days in 5 weeks exemption rules? Prob not if you need to store ANY goods.
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Pilsbury
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I thought about the 5 day/5 week rule but if you are doing a monthly FM there is no way to use it, you could not buy in the ingrediant, prep, cook and package in 5 days and then dispose of everything before the limit is up.
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RichardW
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| Pilsbury wrote: | | I thought about the 5 day/5 week rule but if you are doing a monthly FM there is no way to use it, you could not buy in the ingrediant, prep, cook and package in 5 days and then dispose of everything before the limit is up. |
Now I think you could.
You just have to keep a track of a rolling 5 week period & ensure that the total days stays under 5 in that rolling 5 weeks.
Assuming the market is monthly (IE every 4 to 5 weeks)
You can buy (day 1) prep (day 1 & 2) pack (day 2) & sell (day 3) in 3 days. giving a 1 or 2 day margin dep on 4 or 5 week month.
The exemption is realy for one off events not a monthly one but a rule is a rule.
Richard
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pricey
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I will be doing two Sundays a month, so how does that work with this thing you are on about? I cant seem to find much stuff about it all, I must be looking in the wrong places
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Pilsbury
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no chance then, the 5 days/ 5weeks rule is included to stop little old church ladys having to register and get EHO approval for their occasional tea parties, it states basically that if a premises is used for less than 5 days in any roling 5 week period then no registration is needed, but to qualify the 5 days included holding any ingredients, stock or goods related to the business or process, so in effect you can not keep your jar of pepper you use in you pies or you will be breaking the rules.
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pricey
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Got the form through today I think I can manage it But they want the name of the Business, not thought of that one
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Pilsbury
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Pricey's pies obviously
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lettucewoman
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| Pilsbury wrote: | | Pricey's pies obviously |
.............good........but might give the wrong impression? as in pricey pies? dunno....
Price's Pies?
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twoscoops
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Pie in the sky, Fantaspic, the pie of the land, life of pie...
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pricey
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Result
I have got New Milton and Brockenhurst Farmers Markets, and the Market at Poole every other Thursday if I want
I took a pie today to the Winton one, for the organisers to have a taste and half the Pie was gone In 10 mins
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Penny Outskirts
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| pricey wrote: | Result
I have got New Milton and Brockenhurst Farmers Markets, and the Market at Poole every other Thursday if I want
I took a pie today to the Winton one, for the organisers to have a taste and half the Pie was gone In 10 mins |
Well done
(Have you seen the half time Saints score?)
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pricey
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| Penny wrote: | | pricey wrote: | Result
I have got New Milton and Brockenhurst Farmers Markets, and the Market at Poole every other Thursday if I want
I took a pie today to the Winton one, for the organisers to have a taste and half the Pie was gone In 10 mins |
Well done
(Have you seen the half time Saints score?) |
Full time was even better
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pricey
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Well I had the man round today
He said YES!!!!!
He was very impressed with it all and with the kitchen, fridge, washing etc...
I managed to answer all his questions and then more. So all I have to do is a HASAP thingy that he is going to send me via Email tomorrow and that's it.
I asked him about the 5 day thingy and he looked at me blankly, never heard of it. He was also fine with me making the Jelly and freezing it to use as and when, as long as I didn't keep it longer than 6 months, I have to do a separate spread sheet for that one.
So where do I find a spread sheet
God I am so Happy after all the crap going on right now, something is going right
edited to say He thought Pricey's Pie's was a great name. First prize to Pilsbury
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sean
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| pricey wrote: |
So where do I find a spread sheet
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Have you got Excel on your 'puter? If not then go and download Open Office. Then ask on here and someone will walk you through it.
Congratulations BTW.
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pricey
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| sean wrote: | | pricey wrote: |
So where do I find a spread sheet
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Have you got Excel on your 'puter? If not then go and download Open Office. Then ask on here and someone will walk you through it.
Congratulations BTW. |
I have got open office thats as far as it goes
Thanks sean.
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lettucewoman
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Brilliant! Well done sweetie
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sean
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| pricey wrote: | | sean wrote: | | pricey wrote: |
So where do I find a spread sheet
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Have you got Excel on your 'puter? If not then go and download Open Office. Then ask on here and someone will walk you through it.
Congratulations BTW. |
I have got open office thats as far as it goes
Thanks sean. |
OK, I'm a techno-numpty. I'll get Jamanda to talk to you when she gets back from aquarobics.
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lettucewoman
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ps "Pies" doesn't have a ' in it btw...
Pricey's Pies sounds brill....
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snowball
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Way to go Pricey.
  
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jema
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jamanda
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Erm, if you've only got open office it might be better if someone who's used it helped - I could probably work it out if I had it in front of me, but I haven't and the excel I've got is vista which is a bit weird too. I'd try chatting up Fee.
But that aside - it all sounds great - Pricey's Pies sounds good to me too. Don't forget your banner ad!
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twoscoops
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Can't wait to try them at the charcuterie weekend.
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Gervase
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| jema wrote: | |
I might have to borrow that to give to M-J!
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Penny Outskirts
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Yeay, well done hunny
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Pilsbury
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Congrats Pricey, if you need help with HACCP let me know, I can get somewhere to stay and visit you and lettucewoman for the weekend and help you with it, I have done a couple for Bloke off the telly.
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pricey
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| Pilsbury wrote: | | Congrats Pricey, if you need help with HACCP let me know, I can get somewhere to stay and visit you and lettucewoman for the weekend and help you with it, I have done a couple for Bloke off the telly. |
That sounds good
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lettucewoman
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| Pilsbury wrote: | | Congrats Pricey, if you need help with HACCP let me know, I can get somewhere to stay and visit you and lettucewoman for the weekend and help you with it, I have done a couple for Bloke off the telly. |
um...that'll be staying with us then!!
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lettucewoman
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| jema wrote: | |
standards my boy, standards! Actually I know that it's something I notice and I wouldn't want people to notice the punctuation and not the wonderful pies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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gil
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Great news, Pricey ! Hope it goes really well.
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Pilsbury
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| lettucewoman wrote: | | Pilsbury wrote: | | Congrats Pricey, if you need help with HACCP let me know, I can get somewhere to stay and visit you and lettucewoman for the weekend and help you with it, I have done a couple for Bloke off the telly. |
um...that'll be staying with us then!! |
well if thats an offer....
but we dont mind camping now the weathers better
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Behemoth
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Calling your pies 'pricey' - wise?
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Pilsbury
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| Behemoth wrote: | | Calling your pies 'pricey' - wise? |
Thing is it will be at a farmers market so people will be able to see the pies and the prices and maybe try them, once people get to know them they will buy anyway, and if penny makes him a Tshirt to say 'Hi im pricey, try my pies'.....
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