| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| nettie |
Preparing to be shot down in flames...(Ducks for cover) ...can I possibly keep 2 or 3 chickens in an area 15' by 7'?? Have to confess I know absolutely bugger all about it (apart from having chickens when I was 10)! Would like to surround the whole area with a cage like contraption of sheep netting or similar - with chicken wire at the bottom 3-4 feet - that I can stand up in, and there is room for a henhouse tucked away in a little cranny that wouldn't reduce the roaming area (what size house would I need as a minimum??) Am I mad or is this possible?Please help, and don't laugh 
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| neilk |
I only laughed at "ducks for cover". 
Chickens for eggs.
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| Treacodactyl |
This is an interesting question as it's often something I think about with our hens.
Yes, it would be perfect if we owned a large farm and they roamed around all day and didn't get attacked by anything. However... Our three large birds spend a fair bit of time in a home made ark, 9 x 3 foot. This is larger than many arks that are sold and has less birds than similar arks. I keep it cleaned out and the hens do get let out as often as possible, but they seem contented as they seem to settle into a routine. In actual fact the longer they stay in the ark the less they want to come out. 15 x 7 would seem fine, even for a few more. Especially a taller enclosure as you suggest as the birds do like to stretch their wings. The house size will depend on the size and number of birds, but they don't need too much space. I can dig up some details if you wish. Make sure that the netting at the top is small enough to stop the birds from squeezing out of as they do seem to be able to get through small spaces. Also a fox may be able to push its head in. I'm not sure of official densities for barn chickens etc but they seem largely meaningless as chickens will often not actually leave the barn so even a small ark may give them more real space and be more 'ethical'. I would say to new keepers, have you thought what you will do when they get older and either lay less or stop. Our are at this stage (4 years) but they are pets now so are safe from the pot. You may well be mad but it's not to do with the chickens. 
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| Lindsay |
The official stocking densities for the RSPCA freedom foods standard for free range chickens is 109 square feet per bird. 15 x 7 is 105 sq ft.
The minimum recommended areas for birds is 4 sq ft, according to Storey's guide. I would use as much space as possible. If you had 4 or 5 birds in that 15 x 7 space I would think that's good. When my garden has been cleared I shall be building a "permanent" aviary, of about 6 feet in height and somewhere around 15 x 10 feet, with a covered roof. It's going to house my breeding flock but I haven't decided how many birds I'm going to keep in there yet. At the moment I have 4 birds in a run (4.5 x 3 ft), which is rather small but I move it about the garden frequently. House size guidelines are 1 square foot per bird. You mustn't have smaller because of lack of ventilation, and you don't want too much larger because the birds won't be able to keep warm. My house is 3 x 2 and has in it the 4 birds mentioned above. Also if you don't want to reduce the amount of floor space you can build a house on legs, and make a ramp to go up to the door. Chickens will soon get used to it. Hope that helps, let us know if you've got any other questions. |
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| nettie |
Thank you folks. I only plan on having two or three birds (is it better to have three?) The space for the henhouse is about 4'x3', so it looks OK.... | ||
| Mrs Fiddlesticks |
our 3 live in a purpose built hen house (2ft x 3ft ish) with a 6ft x 2ft (2ft high) run attached. Its supposed to be suitable for 6 birds but I think that would be a squash. The owner of the sawmill we got it from is a chicken breeder himself so we reckon he knows what he's built. Ours are hybrid chickens, medium sized I guess. | ||
| percypony |
Hi Nettie (sarahlou from the IHDG here thanks to your recommendation!!!)
I have seven bantams and three large Wyandottes in about 12 x 12 and they all get along just fine. The only thing we have found is that the ground gets churned up (as they scratch and dig so much!) and we have to replace the woodchip fairly regularly. We have used anticlimb builders panels (you know the ones they have around sites etc) strapped together and a roof placed over the top. There is also a strip of chicken wire on the ground around the panels so foxy can't dig in! They have their houses inside and therefore put themselves to bed and get up when they want! I have various logs and branches in there for them to stand and and do their thing with and they are all quite content. I know this is not ideal but in an ideal world I would have some sort of foxy proof fencing round my whole property! Then I would only worry about the owls and buzzards!!! LOL! It is not the prettiest of constructions but it is in the horses field and they haven't placed any objections as yet! Sarah x |
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| nettie |
Sarahlou.....the penny drops!!! Hi! Sounds like your chickens have got a good little hotel there...I really do think it's feasible for me to give it a go.
I plan to put hay down on the ground when it gets muddy, so it reseeds the area, plus it will give me something to do with all the floor sweepings from the hay barn
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| Treacodactyl |
Be careful of using hay as chickens may eat it and find it hard to digest resulting in crop binding. Wood chips are best, course straw a possibility. Ours tend to eat the fine barley straw so I've stopped using that after a sick hen. | ||
| nettie |
Thanks Treacy. I have an endless supply of wheat straw too so would that be OK? | ||
| Treacodactyl |
Some people would say no for the sleeping quarters as it will contain dust, but that's what's been used for many years. I now only use dust extracted wood shavings, £6 for a large bale that lasts ages. For out side I would use straw if it's course, if my hens start eating it I'd change to wood chips.
I'd be interested to see what other people use. |
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| alison |
We use chopped straw in the barn with wood shavings in the nest boxes, and only use hay if it is raining hard and more straw needs chopping
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| nettie |
OK, so: what sort should I get? (We had Rhode Island reds when I was a nipper), Should I get two or three? How much should I feed them? How much grit should they have? Should I leave feed in the henhouse overnight? How often should they be cleaned out? What other routine stuff should I do? Should their beaks be clipped (they were when I was a kid)??
And can you point me in the direction of a good book if i am bugging the life out of you??? 
Thanks!! |
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| alison |
Have a look at any book by katie Thear or Victoria robers as a good start. katie does Starting with chickens.
Grits, just leave them out for free food. Everyone has different ideas about feeding, but we suspend the food in the house, so no rdent problem and no wild bird eating, not to be mean to wild birds, but to save cross contamination. we feed wild birds elsewhere. There is no need to clip the beaks, and the beak helps them pick up food and preen. |
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| Treacodactyl |
Out of our books Katier Thear's 'Starting With Chickens' for £6.96 looks the best. Not got any be Victoria Roberts yet but I would NOT hesitate. |
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| alison |
Victoria Roberts writes the vets forum in country Smallholding magazine. | ||
| Treacodactyl |
Sorry Alison, I meant to say would not hesitate, I've changed my post. Yes, we get CS and always look forwared to her column.
Well spotted.
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| alison |
She was married to Michael Roberts from the RBST(I think it is this?) , and his books are very good too. | ||
| percypony |
We had to put a proper roof on our chicken run this weekend as with the amount of rain we have had recently the ground was turning into a mud bath!
We can't seem to get wood chip delivered unless we are willing to pay an extortionate amount of money so anyone have any other suggestions on what else we can put down (once the soup like mud has dried out a bit!? |
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| alison |
If you are really desperate, for a while I would put down straw. | ||
| percypony |
I have tried straw alison but think I would need a good few bales as the mud is literally like soup at the moment!
I think I will give it until the weekend to dry out a little more and then put a bale down and see how it goes. I will need to dig a good layer out off the surface first as there is a lot of muck, straw, woodchip etc built up over the last few months in there! I wonder if that would be any good for the plants? |
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| Marigold123 |
Don't put it on the plants until it is well-composted - and preferably let most of the composting process take place in your compost bin, not the chicken run! LOL
Bulky vegetable matter that is not fully composted actually takes nitrogen OUT of the soil temporarily until it is fully broken down. Both straw and wood shavings should rot down well in the compost heap, though the wood will take longer as it's largely made up of lignin, which needs to be broken down by fungal action, which works more slowly than the other micro-organisms that do most of the work in your compost heap. (Not to rubbish worms, of course. They work hard too!  ) Being more finely divided, though, wood shavings break down faster than say, twigs.
I guess you could use it on the garden as a surface mulch, to help prevent moisture from evaporating from the soil, but even mulches take a bit of nitrogen from the soil as they are broken down. Of course if your soil is in really good condition, it ought to be able to cope with this, particularly with the addition of all the muck. So if you are desperate to chuck the stuff somewhere and don't want to put it on the heap, I'd say go for it, and see what happens. NB, don't put any fresh chicken droppings straight onto any precious plants, as they can sometimes burn the leaves. They are great once they have dried, though. Apologies if I'm trying to teach any grandmothers how to suck eggs, here!
PS. Have you tried bark chippings in the chicken run? I've not done this myself, but I've noticed that they take a long time to rot down in children's playgrounds. They might also make a nice little environment for insects, (ie. chicken treats) to hide! Or you could use coarse wood chips from a shredder, perhaps, but you should probably check that neither shreddings nor chippings include any poisonous trees or shrubs like privet, laurel, rhododendron or yew, in case the chickens decide to eat it. |
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| Treacodactyl |
I wouldn't try bark chippings in the run due to this:
http://forum.downsizer.net/viewtopic.php?t=926 |
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| percypony |
I usually put the chicken run muck on the heap with all the horse stuff so it will all compast in well before I use it.
As for the wood chippings/bark I have used wood chippings in the past with great success but the chickens do churn it up rather so it lasts about 3-4 months before it needs topping up. Now I don't seem to be able to get any at a reasonable price (£60 for a small van/tipper load) so I am holding on until I see it cheaper elsewhere. Any ideas anyone??? |
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| Marigold123 |
Again, I don't really know anyone here yet, so huge apologies in advance if I post things that are obvious to people who have miles more experience than me. But if there's a chance it will be helpful to someone somewhere, I will post it anyway unless someone tells me to shut up! 
I have to tell you I am in deep awe of those people who have several huge steaming compost/muck heaps on the go at once; my insignificant little pile is but a pimple on the backside of these giants of the composting world, and I take my hat off to their owners/(minders?)
I love compost. To me, it's the ultimate in recycling, and it's so... organic! (Well duh! But you know what I mean!) |
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| judith |
Marigold - just mix chicken poo with grass clippings. Then stand back and watch it steam
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| Marigold123 |
Yay!
I'd love to, but unfortunately, the present state of play here is lots of poo, zero grass! (On account of the cause of the poo! )
I could always go out and nick other people's, I suppose, in those recycling bags that they put out for the Council, if I wasn't worried about what they might have put on it. |
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| Bugs |
Do! But nobody will tell you to shut up ...the only things you can't do here are be rude/inflammatory, or say/suggest anything illegal. Everything else is a chance to get new ideas and gain experience. As you'll see when you explore we all post on things we don't really know about...
I haven't got much choice, as I don't know much about nuffink
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| Marigold123 |
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| Treacodactyl |
It's not something I'd come across but as I know of the problems people can get with hens and remember people asking I though it useful to let people know. Post away, it's always good to discuss things with others.
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