| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| dpack |
rabbitsi am about to thin some by headshot ,lamped or daylighti can shoot ,i have good kit ,i have hunted bunnies before flat land ,warren in hedge ,bunnies eat in fields any suggestions on tactics ? |
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| Snowball |
Best tactic is, when you've shot them, send them to me, and I then I process and eat them.  I'll send you a pie and some stew back.
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| dpack |
this could be a steep learning curve for me and them ,
my first ideas are observe and identify where they are concentrated and shootable gain elevation if possible shredded carrots dusk /dawn in the middle of darkness with the 50w lamp 
this bit is important i really want to avoid blue on blue with the hares and preferably not disturb them at all .do hares mingle with bunnies this time of year in meadow ?obviously i will aquire targets properly but are there any good ways to id by eyeflash colour or whatever if something glints in the salad? |
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| Jonnyboy |
I would dusk and dawn as a start. Hares are noticeably larger and move completely differently, and I've never seen them mixed with rabbits. In fact, I normally see hares on their own and only seen them chasing each other at breeding season once.
All I would say is depending on your weapon consider your backstop, and if you know the warren and probably shooting point maybe pace the range? I'm sure there will be much more professional advice along shortly! |
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| dpack |
ranging no prob with sight i have ,the focus wheel has distances marked on it and the optics have red dot for minor positioning adjustments for ballistic arc and windage 
using tx200 sr at non fac limit with aa fields ,a good flight and termiinal ballistic combo at 50 m give or take a bit no prob with a clean hit on a 20mm target (one hole for a group ) i hope to get backstop by gaining elevation advice re target acquisition and shooting position , hide techniques ,bunnies habits and vulnerabilities etc ,gratefully received |
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| Jonnyboy |
Sounds to me like you're overcomplicating it a bit. | ||
| dpack |
im trying to get things right ,been many years since i bunny hunted in a serious manner ,there are so many they need thinning ,discretion is needed so as not to upset the other critters wild and farmed ,upset anyone on the footpath or on nearby properties etc | ||
| gil |
I don't see hares and rabbits together at any time of year.
Rabbits are herdlike, so if loads together in lamplight = rabbits Hares far more solitary. Dawn/dusk at this time of year is fine. Not really need for nights exactly. Beg/borrow night-scope ? |
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| RichardW |
Thats seriously good shooting. The pellet drop would be 15 to 28cm (.177 or .22 at full 12ftlb non FAC) at 50m compared to 25m (incidently to zero for 50m set target up at 7m as that has the same zero for.177 for .22 5m has the same as 42m[for that pellet / power combo only]). The other thing I was thinking about was terminal velocity / impact ftlb. Rabbits need about 6ftlb for a head shot to kill them. Been trying to find a calc for that. Richard |
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| dpack |
there are many critters on site ,the less i disturb them the better hence the choice of method
i would also like ferret advice please i would like long netting advice please , specifically can it be done without messing with the hares ? i suspect not my elmer fudd moment is nigh and the sword of damocles will smite flopsy until her children are not so numerous as to out eat several moos and tasty game is fresh or frozen in a kitchen near you hah ,best miss piggy hair swirl
i take hunting very seriously and need advice |
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| gil |
where are the rabbits' burrows ?
you could long net near them, cos hares make formes in long grass, but rabbits eat grass down near their holes. if you want, observe/lamp at night before you shoot, to see which is which, and how they move. seriously, never come across both togther. Though like you, would hate to mix them up. My hare was at the other end of the broad beans from where i was working. Told him to go away till the veg were done, cos lots to eat elsewhere. He's not been on the veg plots since. |
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| dpack |
umm hares are special
glad they dont use bunnies as cover |
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| Brownbear |
50m is a hell of a range with a non-FAC air rifle. I wouldn't use one on bunnies beyond 25 - with that weight of projectile you're talking about a killing spot of 5mm, right through the brain. You need consistent hits on a target the size of a new 5p coin, otherwise with an air rifle you just wound them. If you want to minimise noise, then an air rifle isn't the quietest.
A bolt-action .22LR with sound moderator is so quiet, all you hear is the click of the bolt. The real sound is the impact on the rabbit, and if these haven't been shot at for a fair while, they won't understand it at first. I'd recommend a CZ rifle and SAK moderator. For hides, I would construct a few out of old pallets and cammo net, and place them near to the major burrows, though I dare say you have other construction techniques you prefer. Leave the hides in place a week or so and they'll ignore them. You can sit on a seat, and use the top of the hide, or two sticks lashed at the top, as a rifle rest, though for greatest accuracy you need to be prone. Lamping is best done with a companion to identify and illuminate targets within range whilst you set up the shot on them. Use coloured filters and change them regularly. If I were shooting that ground, I'd start off at dawn and dusk to get familiar with the ground and its various backstops, then I'd shoot at night with a self-loading .22 and infrared sight, though that's a professional outfit which cost me nearly three thou, and is a bit pricy for harvesting bunnies for the pot. I'd advise against low-power lamps like the Deben gun-mounted one - enough to spook the rabbits but not enough to freeze them. |
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| whitelegg1 |
Energy @ 50 yards with .22 AA fields @ 12 ftlbs would be about 8 ftlbs, so comfortably above 6 ftlbs. (as per Chairgun)
That grouping at 50m is very good shooting, I would struggle for that with .177 pcp off a bipod!! The SR must be a seriously good bit of kit! Tactics.... Strategically placed bales of hay/straw never went amiss (hint, hint) Obviously check what is (an is likely to be) behind the hedge when you are shooting, just in case. I have assumed a centre of scope above centre of barrel height of 1.6 inches.... range-finding will be at a premium. If you aimed dead on you would miss between 8 & 47 yards and then after 53 yards. So only a 6 yard zone of no need to aim off. Mil dot use would be imperative. Try chairgun as a useful tool... www.chairgun.com Select pellet used, power produced by rifle, height of scope above centreline of barrel and zeroed range....lots of data produce including reticule to print out and take with ranges marked. If daylight hunting, then a laser rangefinder could be a bonus..... rabbits come in all shapes (though normally rabbit shaped!) so range-finding just by how much the bunny fills the scope is a flawed concept. Shape, shine, shadow, silhouette, sound & smell!!! Not necessarily in that order! Shape-----hat with brim good, full on Ghillie suit better, but hot and expensive! Shine.......scrim net loosely attached to rifle. Obviously not interfering with the SR bit!!! No bling required! Shadow...watch where the sun is....you shadow moving is very noticible....but not if the rabbit are at the same level as you... Sound...important....check out the ninja walk. http://www.wikihow.com/Walk-Silently Smell.....DO NOT SPLASH IT ALL OVER before going out!!!! Unless you use rabbit urine! Try not to wash your hunting clothes in strong detergent and conditioner..... Movement...they will almost certainly see you....... if spotted freeze...and wait....slowly slowly catchee monkey!!! Hope this helps. Pete
P.S. I'm big on theory and small on practical results!!! 
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| RichardW |
I tried to do that with chairgun (where is it?), Must be out of practice. What were the results for a .177? Richard |
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| whitelegg1 |
.177 AA Field = 6 lbs !! Borderline!
Obviously select the desired pellet. On the POI graph which is what I normally look at....right mouse click, go down to Energy and select Energy....then that gives you a graph of energy vs distance. Result is .22 retains its energy better at distance.... However the .177s velocity has dropped from 825 to 575 fts vs .22s 575 to 475 fts........leading to the .177s flatter trajectory at these distances (I know there is more to it than this!!!) The .22 drops 3 1/2 inches in the next 5 yards vs .177 2 inches drop. P
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| cab |
If the warren by a hedge... Is there a run along the hedge, and whats the current thinking on using snares in such a location? Never been convinced by them myself, but if they'd work anywhere then this is the kind of place? | ||
| RichardW |
1, Thats was my gut feeling. 2, Cheers. I know I had done it before but could not find it in the options 3, Yeh .177 flater & faster but .22 carries more energy. Why does .20 not take off lol? Richard |
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| whitelegg1 |
.20 Just doen't have the pellet choice, a bit like .17Hmr !!!
No what would be nice would be an FAC air rated .25 !!!
Probably running 80ftlbs or there abouts............ do you think I could get my BSA Meteor to do that! 
Pete
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| RichardW |
Er yeh with a car suspension spring lol. .20 would have the pellet choice if more guns were made. .25 would carry some serious power at the longer ranges but the hold over would be high. Why not .22 at 80ftlb? My .22 is very easy to adjust the power on but at the higher (will only go to about 15 ish anyway without mods) end gets less consistant. Set at the legal limit it is within 3 feet sec over a 60 shot string as long as the max presure i use is 185bar but if I use the 200 its specked for its much less consistant till the presure drops. Richard |
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| dpack |
i will see if i can get arranged to work at 25 to 35 m for more reliable hits
bales is a good idea prone shooting ,sandbag rest as gun is underlever cammo sorted invisible silent movement and hidenseek practised the need for quiet is noted it is a gun mounted lamp but seems very bright there are some lumps in the landscape near the warren which is in a hedge with salad both sides i will see if they can give a good zone backstop noted luckily the warren is well away from the boundary and footpath |
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| RichardW |
Oh for interest the terminal distance is about 400m if angled for max distance.
Not that you would get that whilst actualy taking a shot unless over the brow of a hill / or up to a roof ridge line at a pigeon like some.......... Richard |
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| dpack |
that really puts the backstop thing into perspective
getting familar with the site before the gun comes out will be done i have decided that 25 m should be possible and is a good idea ,i used to get very close when i used a customised vulcan many years ago ,a 5 p target at 50 is not beyond me with this gun but at 25 it is reliable and a lot more terminal energy is available so sneaky hidey close work is in order . thanks folks loads of good advice |
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| tahir |
A Vulcan bomber sounds a bit extreme for bunny control.... |
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| dpack |
a 10mgton bomb clears a warren ever so fast but wilts the salad |
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| RichardW |
Would need a 21 degree up angle to achive that distance (381 yards) with a terminal power of .25 ftlb lol get a copy of that prog (chairgun its free). You can then set your kill zone size & look at optimum min / max zero ranges allowing a dead on aim over a long range (12.9 to 30 yards aprox for your set up & a 1/2 inch kill zone) Richard |
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| dpack |
a flatish line over a reasonable variety of ranges that cover the kz is very useful and avoids fiddling about if time is of the essence but the mil dot works well to adjust for the arc
the terminal balistic energy,kill target size ratio thing is very educational and i know why 25 m will be better than 50 m and closer still would be ok if i can be sneaky enough the bunnies are new to being shot so maybe i can stay ahead of them on the learning curve |
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| dpack |
armed recon ,
hides need to be planned when i work out the questions i will be back too many cats and other critters to think of snares but there are places it would work gaining several feet up as a fire position would be good both to see flopsy in the salad and to be able to have a backstop in the flat bits the cover is not where it is needed for me but it is for them ,bunny clever and bunny shy of humans i did have some crosshair moments from behind a log with many bunnies as they set out but no clean shot to head as they were all bum towards me as they pottered about or there was no safe backstop prone in a hollow filling with rain and dissolving sheep crap was invisible with a bit of scrim but flopsy was not out in the rain advice please |
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| dpack |
are paths better than the warren forecourt or picnic area ?
would a dry drain with a warren in one bank and salad up the other side be a good place to do some trimming to get a plant free kz ? |
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| KILLITnGRILLIT |
Long net set 8-10yds from their burrows/thick cover.
Drive them into it on a wet dark windy night. Ferrets.........where do we start ??.....Oh, here of course http://www.downsizer.net/Projects/Finding_food/Ferreting_for_beginners/ |
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| dpack |
long net ,ummm
i wouldnt want to net holes in a blacthorn tangle but if it can be done im open to suggestions |
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| gil |
[off-topic ] dpack, what's the sloe crop looking like this year ? [/off-topic]
where are the holes in relation to the hedges/ ditches ? |
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| dpack |
many sloes
holes deep in the thorn and a few down the bank on the bushes slope |
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| gil |
I'm sure it can be done with the net far enough away from the thorn not to get tangled - seen similar situation on South Downs involving sloe thickets with rabbit holes, where the grass was being eaten almost down to the chalk. Nets at the distance KnG suggests. | ||
| dpack |
they go out a fair time
they go out a fair distance they are tight in the bushes a net to collect returnees may be possible like fish ummmm |
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| gil |
That's how I was thinking it would work |
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| dpack |
umm
i will get to know them |
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| dpack |
and i will phone a chap who makes nets to ask his advice
thanks, that may be the best way to manage flopsy long term short term the scrim and tarp are in the dung heap ambush by sniping they are scuttly but they dont shoot back
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| jaracas |
im a noob on the forum, but not a noob to assasinating bunnies.
if im after bulk for the freezer, its the hw100k.if im after one for the pot its the ar28, cheap rifle, but fun. the hw gives me PoP easy at 50m, but i like to keep my shots within 40m, just to be on the safe side, and never had a screamer yet. get ligged on a mat, use a bipod and theyre toast....well casserole. what really gets my goat are the ones hopping about next t the road that you cant do nothing about, lol. steve |
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| matt mavin |
Personally i would shoot from 15 to 20 yards away but 50 meters wow haha !
If you dont have a tripod you can always use a fishing rod holder they often come in a y shape and are very cheap does the job But good luck ! |
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| dpack |
hides sorted ,bunnies close , elevation to 1.25m fire point from a padded rail ,one hole groups to 25 m
bunny lurks in hedge to traverse the kz and scrub is just wrong in front of bun mines would work
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| gil |
Bother. I take it your plans have not yet worked.
Trim the hedge back ? |
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| dpack |
some low trimming may help
i recon a major change of tactics is needed to thin them funny how they will be happy when one is tending a sick sheep and nervously in the hedge when more focussed on them im starting to consider control more than harvest and brownbear's magic dragon is starting to seem attractive neither hastings or cairngorm bunnies were so well adapted to surviving they have enough food within a few metres of the hedge ,a lot in the under margins,they do move out of cover but dont have to if i look to the control aspect what do you folk reccomend ? |
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| Drewsephine |
try this
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| Brownbear |
Or this. | ||
| dpack |
the first is appealing if i can get them to rush me at 2000mps but the latter looks effective if they dig in
my performance so far is more "how not to fire a 50cal machine gun " are ferrets possible in a long blackthorn enclosed warren ? does the fuel air weapon give clean kills if used properly? are there less painful alternatives to phosgene for gassing ?i dont think i could use phosgene (ex industrial chemist and amater historian ) co/ exhaust fumes springs to mind |
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| Silas |
Have the last page and a half been written is some sort of code? | ||
| dpack |
bunnies are cunning and read clear |