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OtleyLad

Renewable energy - Scotland shows the way

Here's some solid evidence that renewables can do the heavy lifting.

Think of all the emissions not being produced as a result.

Makes you weep when you see the way Westminster still clings to fossil fuel energy production.
Nick

Some of our company cars are now electric. I'm playing in a Tesla tonight. The battery tech is coming on, hugely. Clearly, storage of power is a massive issue, but if the cars are now a decent size, with an acceptable range, they're becoming more mainstream. And that provides the funding to make your headline more routine than niche.

Eta: they're charged by solar.
Tavascarow

According to Wiki in 2012 the UK generated 12% by renewables.
Considering how much of that was 'Scottish' shows how far the rest of the country has to go IMHO.
Some of the poorest countries in the world are leaders when in comes to renewable power generation (through necessity no doubt).
Just scan down the far right column & see how many generate more than 2/3rds of their power from renewables.
It can be done.
Treacodactyl

Re: Renewable energy - Scotland shows the way

Makes you weep when you see the way Westminster still clings to fossil fuel energy production.


It's not hard to understand if you give it a few moments thought. Yes Scotland is doing well (ignoring the environmental damage done by the renewable installations and infrastructure). But then take a quick look at Scotland, it has more scope for hydo than England, more scope for on shore wind, and it has 10% of the population but is only half the size.

It's also worth noting that the story is only about electricity, not total energy use. I gather more heating is provided from gas in Scotland for example, so England could increase the percentage of its electricity produced if all the properties that are heated via electricity were heated via gas.
john of wessex

While I don't wish to criticise Scotland's achievement in this area, a small population & large land area it must be significantly easier to generate the bulk of your electricity from renewables than in England
OtleyLad

Re: Renewable energy - Scotland shows the way

Makes you weep when you see the way Westminster still clings to fossil fuel energy production.


It's not hard to understand if you give it a few moments thought. Yes Scotland is doing well (ignoring the environmental damage done by the renewable installations and infrastructure). But then take a quick look at Scotland, it has more scope for hydo than England, more scope for on shore wind, and it has 10% of the population but is only half the size.

It's also worth noting that the story is only about electricity, not total energy use. I gather more heating is provided from gas in Scotland for example, so England could increase the percentage of its electricity produced if all the properties that are heated via electricity were heated via gas.

Its not like Scotland is covered in wind farms or hydro schemes everywhere - far from it.

Of course there's plenty of scope in England & Wales for renewables but our government is not really interested - thats the difference.
Behemoth

I don't want to be cynical but I doubt they'll stop extracting and selling oil, in th UK or out of it. Nevertheless it's a posisitve story.

A while back there was interest in developing small scale community hydro plants. in Wales and the right bits of England. IIRC this got scuppered when the tax breaks got removed.
Treacodactyl

Re: Renewable energy - Scotland shows the way

Its not like Scotland is covered in wind farms or hydro schemes everywhere - far from it.

Of course there's plenty of scope in England & Wales for renewables but our government is not really interested - thats the difference.

What, about 3,000 turbines built and a 1,000+ in the process? Some areas are described as 'saturated' with them. So England would need to squeeze in 40,000, ignoring hydro, biomass etc. Confused

Scotland get the same sort of grants as the UK doesn't it? The main difference I can see is Scotland doesn't devolve it's powers as much as England (somewhat ironic) so they force through approvals whereas English councils are more likely to listen to their voters and object. Personally I'd like to see more local powers not less.
Tavascarow

Re: Renewable energy - Scotland shows the way

Its not like Scotland is covered in wind farms or hydro schemes everywhere - far from it.

Of course there's plenty of scope in England & Wales for renewables but our government is not really interested - thats the difference.

What, about 3,000 turbines built and a 1,000+ in the process? Some areas are described as 'saturated' with them. So England would need to squeeze in 40,000, ignoring hydro, biomass etc. Confused

Scotland get the same sort of grants as the UK doesn't it? The main difference I can see is Scotland doesn't devolve it's powers as much as England (somewhat ironic) so they force through approvals whereas English councils are more likely to listen to their voters and object. Personally I'd like to see more local powers not less. My bold again.
So the government aren't trying to strong arm fracking when Lancashire council have listened to their electorate & said no?
Please!!!
Treacodactyl

Re: Renewable energy - Scotland shows the way

Its not like Scotland is covered in wind farms or hydro schemes everywhere - far from it.

Of course there's plenty of scope in England & Wales for renewables but our government is not really interested - thats the difference.

What, about 3,000 turbines built and a 1,000+ in the process? Some areas are described as 'saturated' with them. So England would need to squeeze in 40,000, ignoring hydro, biomass etc. Confused

Scotland get the same sort of grants as the UK doesn't it? The main difference I can see is Scotland doesn't devolve it's powers as much as England (somewhat ironic) so they force through approvals whereas English councils are more likely to listen to their voters and object. Personally I'd like to see more local powers not less. My bold again.
So the government aren't trying to strong arm fracking when Lancashire council have listened to their electorate & said no?
Please!!!

It's gone to appeal, if England worked like Scotland it would have put more pressure on the council to approve right away. As I said, I'd rather the council had the power to decide but then that would also mean far fewer wind turbines as many are granted at appeal or the council grant then knowing they will loose the appeal.
dpack

I don't want to be cynical but I doubt they'll stop extracting and selling oil, in th UK or out of it. Nevertheless it's a posisitve story.

A while back there was interest in developing small scale community hydro plants. in Wales and the right bits of England. IIRC this got scuppered when the tax breaks got removed.

iirc one in west yorks had to get finished last week or lose the incentive deal.

they got it online ,it will pay for itself in 15 yrs,has a 100 yr expected lifespan.

without the incentives 100 yrs to pay back which makes it unviable,but as it was 85 yrs of free electric and although that is a small unit i recon most of the rivers into west yorks are already equipped with plenty of water,gravity and in many places wiers and pond/leat combo to give a high pool for pre steam wheels can easily be adapted to new use.

a nuke or fossil facility gets incentives to create a slightly better set of terms and brings assorted"legacy issues usually over a 25 yr working life and beyond but sometimes the issues are rather urgent especially in the case of nukes.
OtleyLad

Re: Renewable energy - Scotland shows the way

Its not like Scotland is covered in wind farms or hydro schemes everywhere - far from it.

Of course there's plenty of scope in England & Wales for renewables but our government is not really interested - thats the difference.

What, about 3,000 turbines built and a 1,000+ in the process? Some areas are described as 'saturated' with them. So England would need to squeeze in 40,000, ignoring hydro, biomass etc. Confused


I'm sorry but thats just plain twaddle. Is 'saturated' a measure on some technical scale or just an emotive word from a headline? Please enlighten us.

BTW Scotland according to Wikipedia is 30,414 sq miles in area. I think we can lose 4000+ turbines in there somewhere Rolling Eyes
Hairyloon

Re: Renewable energy - Scotland shows the way

Some areas are described as 'saturated' with them...

I'm sorry but thats just plain twaddle. Is 'saturated' a measure on some technical scale or just an emotive word from a headline? Please enlighten us.
There is a practical limit to how closely spaced turbines can be sited, and I expect a regulatory one. If an area approaches that limit, then it can reasonably be described as saturated.
Nobody here said that the saturated areas were large...
Ty Gwyn

Not sure if this list is up to date,but gives a good idea of the number of turbines in and around the UK,one thing for sure,West Yorkshire is not saturated,surely they could get another 100 or so up Warfedale and Otley.

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A7x9UnySJ3tWwXAAopR3Bwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTBydWpobjZlBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2lyMgR2dGlkAw--/RV=2/RE=1450940435/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fen.wikipedia.org%2fwiki%2fList_of_onshore_wind_farms_in_the_United_Kingdom/RK=0/RS=E_WGcrK.rcE7dADqSyMWz6rrBJ4-
Tavascarow

Re: Renewable energy - Scotland shows the way

Its not like Scotland is covered in wind farms or hydro schemes everywhere - far from it.

Of course there's plenty of scope in England & Wales for renewables but our government is not really interested - thats the difference.

What, about 3,000 turbines built and a 1,000+ in the process? Some areas are described as 'saturated' with them. So England would need to squeeze in 40,000, ignoring hydro, biomass etc. Confused

Scotland get the same sort of grants as the UK doesn't it? The main difference I can see is Scotland doesn't devolve it's powers as much as England (somewhat ironic) so they force through approvals whereas English councils are more likely to listen to their voters and object. Personally I'd like to see more local powers not less. My bold again.
So the government aren't trying to strong arm fracking when Lancashire council have listened to their electorate & said no?
Please!!!

It's gone to appeal, if England worked like Scotland it would have put more pressure on the council to approve right away. As I said, I'd rather the council had the power to decide but then that would also mean far fewer wind turbines as many are granted at appeal or the council grant then knowing they will loose the appeal. & who's hearing the appeal?
An independent tribunal?
Or Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government Greg Clark?
No prizes for the right answer.
A man who has publicly stated his support for fracking.
Frack Free Lancashire: Lancashire councils response.
Quote:
Today, 17 December 2015, there was a meeting of the Full Council of LCC

We understand that the following motion was put to a vote

Agenda Part C Notices of Motion submitted under Procedural Standing Order 14. 2.1(a)

1. By County Councillor Steve Holgate:

Lancashire County Council has spent significant time and resources ensuring that the process of determining planning applications on Fracking in Lancashire has been open, transparent and well informed.

The Development Control Committee received evidence and opinion from organisations both in favour of and opposed to Fracking, as well as from local resident groups, local businesses and public health professionals.

Whilst national government is rightly entitled to take a view and determine national policy regarding energy, we believe that the determination of individual planning applications should remain with the County Council as it is best able to consider local planning issues.

The Secretary of State is a member of a cabinet with a clear policy in favour of Fracking and he has made statements in favour of Fracking.

It is therefore inappropriate for him to determine the planning appeals on Roseacre Wood and Preston New Road in Lancashire because of clear evidence of pre- determination.

Lancashire County Council requests that the Secretary of State takes no part in the final determination of the Preston New Road or Roseacre Wood appeal decisions.

Council instructs the chief executive of Lancashire County Council to write to the Prime Minister and Secretary of State informing them of the opinions of the County Council.

We believe that the motion was carried with

45 for
1 against
18 abstentions
OtleyLad

Not sure if this list is up to date,but gives a good idea of the number of turbines in and around the UK,one thing for sure,West Yorkshire is not saturated,surely they could get another 100 or so up Warfedale and Otley.

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A7x9UnySJ3tWwXAAopR3Bwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTBydWpobjZlBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2lyMgR2dGlkAw--/RV=2/RE=1450940435/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fen.wikipedia.org%2fwiki%2fList_of_onshore_wind_farms_in_the_United_Kingdom/RK=0/RS=E_WGcrK.rcE7dADqSyMWz6rrBJ4-

I for one would welcome them - plenty of excellent sites around here - you could lose a lot in this lanscape.
The Wharfe must have great potential for Hydro too - high volume/fast flowing.
Mistress Rose

In our area we have 2 hydro schemes and several wind turbines. Sadly these are historical, the hydro schemes being tide mills and the wind turbines numerous non-working windmills. Restoring some of these to generate power would be step in the right direction. Treacodactyl

Re: Renewable energy - Scotland shows the way

I'm sorry but thats just plain twaddle. Is 'saturated' a measure on some technical scale or just an emotive word from a headline? Please enlighten us.


If you bothered to look at where they are and read through some planning applications you'd know. Same as your original post, it would help if you understood simple differences such as population sizes between Scotland and England and then your argument might make a bit more sense.

Put bluntly, if you want to stand any chance of convincing people to go 'green' then come up with a convincing argument.
crofter

the wind turbines numerous non-working windmills.

Do you know how old these are? Presumably when planning permission is granted for a wind turbine there are conditions attached to remove the structure at the end of its lifespan or if it falls into disrepair?
Hairyloon

In our area we have 2 hydro schemes and several wind turbines. Sadly these are historical, the hydro schemes being tide mills and the wind turbines numerous non-working windmills. Restoring some of these to generate power would be step in the right direction.
Since the traditional style of windmill is considered by many to be an attractive feature and the modern style to be a carbuncle on the landscape, why do we not see a return to the traditional style more often?
Obviously the modern ones are taller and more efficient, but isn't a shorter less efficient tower better than no tower?
Behemoth

The Wharfe must have great potential for Hydro too - high volume/fast flowing.

They are going in on the Aire. Usually where there's a weir, like at Otley.
Hairyloon

The Wharfe must have great potential for Hydro too - high volume/fast flowing.

They are going in on the Aire. Usually where there's a weir, like at Otley.
There should be plenty of scope: how much of Leeds was built on textile mills that were originally powered by water?
john of wessex

Basically you need a 6ft drop to get a realistic amount of power from a hydro site. If you follow most rivers there is often a history of hydro power wherever you can get that much drop Nick

Not sure if this list is up to date,but gives a good idea of the number of turbines in and around the UK,one thing for sure,West Yorkshire is not saturated,surely they could get another 100 or so up Warfedale and Otley.

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A7x9UnySJ3tWwXAAopR3Bwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTBydWpobjZlBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2lyMgR2dGlkAw--/RV=2/RE=1450940435/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fen.wikipedia.org%2fwiki%2fList_of_onshore_wind_farms_in_the_United_Kingdom/RK=0/RS=E_WGcrK.rcE7dADqSyMWz6rrBJ4-

Is there any danger you could please, pretty please, learn to shorten links? Your posts make things unreadable.
Hairyloon

Is there any danger you could please, pretty please, learn to shorten links? Your posts make things unreadable.
Or if not, then at least follow the link to the site and post the URL from the header: posting straight from the search engine adds a shedload of clutter.

On a lighter note: Merry Christmas.
Mistress Rose

All the windmills are of the traditional type. The one above us, on Windmill Hill strangely, was restored as a house some years ago and they put non working sails on it so it looked as it used to. Nobody has suggested taking them down and in fact there would be complaints if they did. Ty Gwyn

Not sure if this list is up to date,but gives a good idea of the number of turbines in and around the UK,one thing for sure,West Yorkshire is not saturated,surely they could get another 100 or so up Warfedale and Otley.

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A7x9UnySJ3tWwXAAopR3Bwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTBydWpobjZlBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2lyMgR2dGlkAw--/RV=2/RE=1450940435/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fen.wikipedia.org%2fwiki%2fList_of_onshore_wind_farms_in_the_United_Kingdom/RK=0/RS=E_WGcrK.rcE7dADqSyMWz6rrBJ4-

Is there any danger you could please, pretty please, learn to shorten links? Your posts make things unreadable.


The last time you mentioned this,i did ask how i could copy and paste without this happening,no one answered to tell me how.

I don`t honestly know how to shorten these links.

Merry Christmas to you.
Ty Gwyn

Is there any danger you could please, pretty please, learn to shorten links? Your posts make things unreadable.
Or if not, then at least follow the link to the site and post the URL from the header: posting straight from the search engine adds a shedload of clutter.

On a lighter note: Merry Christmas.

Thank you,i will try that.

Merry Christmas.
Nick

http://forum.downsizer.net/viewtopic.php?t=25325

And to you. Smile

Yell if it doesn't make sense.
Hairyloon

Yell if it doesn't make sense.
Christmas? No, it doesn't make a lot of sense...
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