| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| Barefoot Andrew |
Rump steak conundrumI had a rump steak for my tea last night, and it was as much food for thought as it was food for dinner.I stopped buying meat from Sainsbury's altogether at the end of last year and have since used local butchers - mostly one that's about 15 mins drive away, and more latterly a new one that has opened about half a mile from here. Quality local produce from local farms, supporting local butchers, all very downsizerish things. I was in Sainsbury's on Wednesday evening getting a few bits and bobs. I was expecting Thursday & Friday to be more frantic work-wise than they transpired to be, and I was expecting to be hard-pressed to make it up to the butcher's to get goodies for evening meals. So I decided, just this once, to relent and get some tasty morsels from Sainsbury's meat counter. I had three chilli sausages, plus a piece of rump steak. Obviously they couldn't name the exact farm from which the steak came, but it was British, and it was 21-day "dry aged". So I simply cooked this steak last night: pan-fried over a high heat, with just a little oil, and a splash of soy sauce for seasoning. And I have to say, it was excellent. Succulent, tender, and very very tasty. Equally as good as anything I've had from either butchers in recent weeks. Hmm, this then puts the proverbial cat amongst the downsizer pidgeons. Anonyous meat from a supermarket outstripping locally reared produce from quality local butchers and farmers? Needless to say I'm not giving up on The Cause just yet. I shall return to my butchers and regail them of this experience and ask them to match it - of which I have no doubt they are more than able. But in a wider sense, if supermarkets are dishing up genuinely excellent produce, then small traders best watch out. A. |
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| Stacey |
I had a steak from M&S a few weeks ago that was far better than our home produced 
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| Mrs Fiddlesticks |
difficult as in fairness it wasn't truly an objective and scientific test and there might well be other factors at play like the skill of the chef that night, quality of the robust and spicy etc etc.
Thing is that supermarkets can get it right ( our local farmer whom we get our meat from also supplies Waitrose so...) but its being selective and buying with that knowledge in mind |
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| lottie |
My o.h. came in with some venison sausage from Morrisons because he'd seen it reduced and fancied it and it was really very good.Although since we've plenty of our own stuff in the freezer at the minute it was a daft purchase. | ||||
| Rob R |
Well you did go for the best the supermarket has on offer, and most 'local' farmers will be selling through 'conventional' models, so you can expect some decent stuff from supermarkets. The only draw back is that you don't know what it was that made that steak good & so you could go for exactly the same range next time & have a different experience.
A lot of grass fed stock do go through supermarkets, so the best time to buy will be the same in a supermarket as it is in a butchers or farmshop (autumn/early winter for the best, or spring for the second best). I always opt for lamb when eating out because there's more chance it will have been predominately reared on grass (which makes a greater difference to the composition than hanging ever will- nice to see dry aged though, vac-packing ruins a lot of good meat in supermarkets these days). |
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| Jonnyboy |
What Rob said. IIRC the 21 day matured is part of the 'taste the difference' range whereas most of their other beef is 7-10 days matured.
You got their best product and it lived up to expectation. That's a good thing. |
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| jema |
We just had some of Robs mince in a really excellent spag bol  I'm sure the meat quality contributed, but I have always wondered what the random factor is with beef?
e.g. with all the care in the World are we ever going to get just unlucky ordering from Rob? or does the process pretty much guarantee that unless we are at fault with the cooking, the meat will be tender. I'd actually say that we have been 100% happy with the quality of all farm bought meat we have had, whereas a tough joint of beef from the supermarket was a fairly frequent occurrence. |
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| Mrs Fiddlesticks |
innocent question but what actually is it that determines quality of meat? Breed? Care? Feed? Slaughter? Hanging?
Or simply put how much can a farmer realistically do to improve the end product? What control is there really? Sure by picking a local smaller producer we're more content about welfare and ethical considerations but as Andrew has said when it comes down to it - taste and tenderness are what really matters when you come to eat it |
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| Rob R |
There's many factors that could cock-up my work, stress in loading & stress at slaughter is a big one (ours are all killed after an overnight stay at the abattoir, only ever taken one in on the day, so we don't have so much risk of transport stress, and they only travel up to four miles), stress at any time of the animals life can also have an effect, particularly nutritional stress, post-slaughter mistakes (poor bleeding, bad storage /hanging conditions, butchery- putting too much grissle in the mince, for example) can also make it worse.
All-grass fed beef is reputed to be more tender, which is subjective & often as good as the cooking, but composition wise it will always be different (because you are what you eat holds true). Dexter beef is always said to be very tender, but just being Dexter doesn't make up for any other mistakes. Animals also go through 'bone' & 'muscle' stages, if you time slaughter wrong & get it in a 'bone' stage the meat tends to be tougher because of the nature of the connective tissues, whereas putting down muscle the fibres are 'fresher' and less heavily toned. With the over thirty month rule this was sometimes a problem if you missed the stage & had to run them on close to the deadline. We tend to kill the short legged ones nearer 24 months, whereas the long legged Dexter runs on better to 30 months. Thirty two & thirty six are also good, respectively, but of course you can't do that now. |
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| Cathryn |
I agree with what Mrs Fiddlesticks says. To add, Waitrose are now asking their farmers for another standard as well. (Can't remember right now which it is.) All well and good but Waitrose won't be carrying that cost. They are also considering not bothering with small scale farmers anymore. If they follow this through it will have an unfortunate impact on some around here. They also charge you, the customer, far more for the meat than say...HMM but pay the farmers considerably less. (er, to be honest I haven't done a beef price comparison  )
I can get you the Waitrose costs,what they pay for the meat if you really want. 
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| Rob R |
And thinking back to when we used to home kill- hang it until it starts to go green- the beef is absolutely divine
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| wellington womble |
I buy from farmers (mostly) for other reasons rather than quality - low food miles, keeping the local economy going strong, identifying good farming preactice for wildlife, the option to ask questions about how things were done at souce, the chit chat and to be honest the whole 'I nearly ran over a chicken, mind the cow pat, ahhhhhh look at the baby lambs' farm shop factor
That said, the best beef I've ever had is local stuff - never been beaten. We've had some bad stuff and I haven't gone back - I won't by bad local produce, but I would buy the same quality and pay more and be happy. I recently had a conumdrum with lamb - our local lamb producer supplies our local budgens - so which do I support - the farmer, because I beleive we should support british farmers, and buy direct, or the supermarket for trying, and hope that others will buy too, given the improved access to the product (I now also have the option of a local farm shop) We don't eat all that much lamb, so I mostly buy from Budgens - keeping a supply open has got to be a good thing in increasing take up of local food. |
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| gil |
I'd go for buying direct from the farmer - that way no intermediary to take a cut. Others will buy their lamb from Budgens anyway. | ||||
| Barefoot Andrew |
Some excellent comments here. Particularly interesting to hear Rob's views on what drives flavour and texture from the professional farmer's viewpoint.
A. |
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| Rob R |
Don't worry, there'll be someone along in a minute with a completely different formula
There's another factor, in that how 'trained' you are to a certain type of meat that can affect your judgement. |
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| Jonnyboy |
I dunno. It seems to me that a lot of hard work goes into making the meat taste great, but one cock up in the process can make it average or poor | ||||
| Rob R |
That's why I am never complacent, despite what everyone says about it- every new order is the very first one all over again. | ||||
| Mrs Fiddlesticks |
fascinating Rob R. Thank you. I'd not heard of the bone or muscle phase of growth before. How do you know which the animal is in? | ||||
| Rob R |
It's part of the art of 'finishing', I've read a few interesting papers but there isn't that much science on it, most of the writings are from people's experience. It tends to be different for different breeds (and there's even more variation within a breed as there are between them) & different farming systems.
I think that longer food chains, grain feeding the European grading system have all contributed to less effort being put into consistency of quality in the industrial food system. We tend to concentrate more on the things we can physically measure, like weight, days to slaughter, mm of fat etc. Not that they are necessarily bad parameters, but there are more subtle factors at work, that good stockmen & good butchers know about (and that I merely nibble at the edges of). |
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| Rob R |
I've rather approached farming from a different angle from my colleagues (family included). Instead of going for what the market wants I've made most of decisions on what tastes good to me, because if we don't sell it we have to eat it  Despite always liking the breeds I keep, before I bought a cow I bought some meat & made the decision that way (same with the Highlands). The sheep we bought just a few (as I didn't know anyone local who had the breed at the time) and it turned out well for meat quality. A few times the butcher used to say the cattle weren't big enough, or didn't have enough fat on them etc, it gets to you after a bit, all these dissenting opinions, but when you taste it & it's good or someone tells you they enjoyed it, that makes up for it. Now-a-days he's less cynical about my methods, because I keep bringing them & people keep liking them. There's lots of room for improvement on the farm though, and I keep researching interesting new ideas to try out.
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| Rob R |
Intriguingly most of the newest developments in pasture farming come from the US, that we always think of as the CAFO-kings. Maybe that is the reason why- they have the standard fare so much worse over there that the 'alternative' market is more attractive (or maybe it's just because they are bigger). | ||||
| wellington womble |
That's a good point - if you are reliant on lots of other people also getting everything perfect, for your hard work to be appreciated, and you feel that's not happening, then there is not a lot of point pulling out all the stops in the farming, only have someone else cutting corners to save pennies and losing all the gain in the slaughter, hanging, butchering, storage, cooking etc etc etc. |
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| jema |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factory_farming Concentrated Animal Food Operations. I had to look it up! |
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| lottie |
Went to a talk for the public the other month by the person who heads up the grass research facility at EIGER[IGER?] and he was showing slides of different beef carcasses at various dates after slaughter and hanging and I was suprised by the marked difference according to whether they were grass or grain fed and what type of grass or silage they were fed on. Apparently trying to develop pasture that makes cows less"gassy" as well to help global warming
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| Rob R |
I thought I'd throw it in just to confuse
That's one of the things that bothers me about some of the ways we do things in this country (or rather the way we say we do things). For example our cattle are pastured & fed no concentrates. We move the electric fence daily to give them a fresh ration of grass every day. Next door there are cattle 'pastured' but the field is like a bowling green (if you ignore the turds & ruts) with concentrate feeders in for the youngstock & round bale feeders & feed blocks for the adults. On the other side you can't see the cows for grass (mainly because it's had a burst of nitrogen so it's grown faster than they can eat it) but there is still a concentrate feeder in there. Strictly speaking they are all pastured cattle but how different is the fact that they have grass range from the CAFO's of the US? The grass is not the basis of their diets (and neither is much attention paid to making sure it provides what the animals need). I've heard about the research into making them less gassy, but I feel that's rather hitting the pointy end of the problem- where the animals are in a managed grazing system they do produce gases, but they don't produce the CO2 emissions that tilling the earth, growing, feeding & carting grain (and the opposite for shipping the muck out & dealing with the 'pollution' hazard of it). The manure is better utilised in a biologically active sward (chemical sprays & fertilisers, even well managed at 'safe' levels have a negative effect on soil biology, particularly under sustained use) & the FYM/compost applications are managed in accordance with what the growing forage can utilise. Edit: I used to think of myself as a cattle farmer, but I'm not, I'm a grass farmer- the cattle are just my harvesting, weeding, & fertilising equipment, me being a cattle farmer is like calling an arable person a tractor farmer. Grass/forage is my passion, as much as I've always enjoyed long hours driving tractors for the grain harvest in baking temperatures, this is ultimately more satisfying. |
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| lottie |
You sound a bit like the bloke whose talk I went to---If PercyThrower was convinced the answer was in the soil he believed it was in the grass  Always good to listen to an enthusiast who knows his subject---it was pitched at a level the non scientist or non farmer could follow--- it convinced me anyway especially the stuff showing how much healthier the grass fed beef[omega3's,healthier fat,higher vitamins etc] was to eat.
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| Rob R |
Yep, we didn't care what the animals tastes like when sending 100 of them off every week to the bacon factory. Taste & tenderness didn't even figure on the radar when I was conducting the lamb's feed trial at college, they paid on weight & a certain amount of backfat (cell counts, protein & butterfat in the case of milk). The advantage with a longer chain is that you can all blame eachother though. |
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| Rob R |
Well actually I believe the answer is in the soil, and life is the basis of fertility. Anyway, stop me waffling, I was just replying to say I was hoping to send away some samples to test that science of the better fatty acid profile (and protein) of our meat this year- just as soon as I have the steak to test & saved up to pay for it. I'm quite a selfish person though- I don't use chemicals because I don't like handling them & I do like walking through grass fields instead of harvested stubbles or the enclosed, ventilated pig & poultry buildings I used to work in (I also can't afford 250k for a state of the art large chicken shed, or the fancy arable machinery), and I prefer the taste of the stuff at the end of the day.
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| Barefoot Andrew |
Normal service has been restored
Had a rump steak for my tea last night - a 21-day matured affair bought from the butcher I've been using since Christmas (and not the one that's just opened near my house - they're not open Mondays). Simply cooked as before, and it was very, very nice. Phew!
A. |
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| Nick |
How do you mean? US steaks are fabulous, much better than steaks served widely here. Or am I mis-reading you? |
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| Nick |
Indeed, which is why battery chicken is better than free range, organic to so many people. It doesn't trouble the palate, or the teeth, being bland and very. very soft. |
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| Rob R |
Well feedlot conditions are more suited to E. Coli, one of the reasons why irradiation & chlorine baths are common food sterilisation practises in the US, among other things. |
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| Behemoth |
I had a steak in the US. It was Ok but that fact it was sprayed with a "tenderiser for a more enjoyable eating experience" was a bit disconcerting. Never really got to the bottom of that one, it might possibly have been a digestive enzyme starting to break the meat down so you did't have to chew it. Best steak ever was in Northumberland. I've not had any of Rob's beef yet as his portion sizes are still too large at the moment. | ||||
| dpack |
grass fed well tended ,yum | ||||
| Jonnyboy |
Had some finnebrogue venison tonight. Beef is overrated.
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| Nick |
Commoner. Get somw swan down yer neck. | ||||
| Behemoth |
I had swan once, in a Oxford college, some sort of weird ritual, didn't think much of it. | ||||
| Barefoot Andrew |
What were you doing swanning about down there?
A. |
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| Behemoth |
Helping myself to the free wine. The swan was incidental. |