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roobarb

Septic tank registration?

I'm not sure if this is the right section to put this in, but it is to do with property....

Has anyone heard about the registering of your septic tank/cess pit?

I noticed a brief article in the recent GWLAD magazine (the magazine that farmers/smallholders receive in Wales), which reminded people in Wales with a septic tank that they need to register it by the 31st December. This is the first I've heard about it (or certainly in Wales, I vaguely remember my Dad making some mention of it for houses in England). We haven't received anything from the Environment Agency/Welsh Assembly about this and wonder if anyone else has in Wales? Have we missed something?Confused

I mentioned it to one of our neighbours as well and he hadn't heard about it either.

Does anyone know what the implications are of registering or not registering (the bit I read suggested fines etc. for not registering)? I also read it was now under review in England, so not compulsory, but in Wales it was still going ahead.
Green Rosie

Not sure if it's a European thing. All new French septic tanks are supposed to be checked by an organisation called SPANC before they are buried. OH, with considerable difficulty, left all ours and the filtration pipes open only to discover that our commune has no SPANC covering it and therefore couldn't be checked Mad
Cathryn

It's totally daft and easy to register online.
mochyn

My worry is that 'they' will then charge us for having a septic tank. Any ideas?
Green Rosie

Not in France it ain't - http://eco-gites.blogspot.com/search?q=SPANC
Cathryn

There are too many of us who would just tell them where to go. Wink
Nick

There are too many of us who would just tell them where to go. Wink


But if you get a legally enforcable bill you're stuffed. Easier to avoid the issue.


Behemoth, find out, let us know.
Behemoth

No idea. Will mooch around.
crofter

We were supposed to register our septic tanks (in Scotland) last year, (or maybe the year before?) Not many people must have bothered to register because they then had an "amnesty" when you could register them for free before a certain date. I did hear that you will not be able to sell a house with an unregistered tank, but I am not sure that I see any real advantages to registration, and suspect it will not be long before the "septic tank licence" begins to incur an annual fee.
Behemoth

Very briefly, I think, a discharge from a septic tanks needs to be registered. Over 2m3 discharge per day is to be controlled like any other sewage discharge. Good. Under 2m3 a day you need to register but get an exemption. This will cover most domestic tanks.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/publications/files/pb13561-ep2010waterdischarge-101220.pdf
wizz

http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/118753.aspx
might also be of interest
- everyone posting at once!
Behemoth

We were supposed to register our septic tanks (in Scotland) last year, (or maybe the year before?) Not many people must have bothered to register because they then had an "amnesty" when you could register them for free before a certain date. I did hear that you will not be able to sell a house with an unregistered tank, but I am not sure that I see any real advantages to registration, and suspect it will not be long before the "septic tank licence" begins to incur an annual fee.


If you want to manage the water quality in a watercourse you ned to know what's going into it and from where. That includes sewage effluent form sewage works, farms, and septic, inlcuding the impact of soakaways. Not so long ago many of the villages in the flatter bits of east Yorkshire were surrounded by ditches which were no more than open sewers because of the inadequate treatment from poorly maintained tanks.
pookie

Seems it is going to be compulsory in Wales first.

http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/132387.aspx

http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/118753.aspx

http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/132391.aspx


sorry posted before refreshing new posts Embarassed
alice

We were supposed to register our septic tanks (in Scotland) last year, (or maybe the year before?) Not many people must have bothered to register because they then had an "amnesty" when you could register them for free before a certain date. I did hear that you will not be able to sell a house with an unregistered tank, but I am not sure that I see any real advantages to registration, and suspect it will not be long before the "septic tank licence" begins to incur an annual fee.

That was the conclusion we came to - especially the bit about a subsequent fee. And the 'amnesty' made us laugh.
gil

I've not heard of this from anyone I know round here, and we all have septic tanks. crofter

I've not heard of this from anyone I know round here, and we all have septic tanks.

You were supposed to register your tank with SEPA so they can add it to their list of tanks to be inspected to ensure they are not causing pollution. Since you have missed the amnesty, it will now cost you 103 pounds to get it registered, and subsequent inspections may require further expenditure, if it is not working as it should.
gil

Wonderful. JB

So what do they do if you don't register? crofter

So what do they do if you don't register?

Nothing. I don't think there is enough resources to go out looking for unregistered tanks. I believe that if nobody complains and you do not intend to sell your property you can safely avoid paying the registration fee.
roobarb

Thanks for all the replies - certainly some food for thought.

I downloaded a document from the Environment Agency Website specifically on registering in Wales
http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/132391.aspx


Click to download file

On the final page in the part titled "After you have registered" it states that you should:
- "Arrange for excess sludge to be regularly removed" - we've been in our current home for 3 years and never emptied it, and seems to be working fine. We've been told that they shouldn't need emptying very often if they're working correctly.

- "Make sure that the system is properly maintained in line with manufacturers instructions." - what instructions? We never were given any by the previous owners, and with many septic tanks as old as the hills how many householders have an instruction manuel?

- "keep all records (for example, maintenance receipts, tank emptying receipts, servicing records) relating to the system for at least five years" - that'll be a blank sheet of paper then!

I think we've come to the conclusion that unless we hear anything formally from the Environment Agency then we will ignore this. If they can't be bothered to inform people in the proper manner then they clearly aren't that serious about it.
crofter

- "Arrange for excess sludge to be regularly removed" - we've been in our current home for 3 years and never emptied it, and seems to be working fine. We've been told that they shouldn't need emptying very often if they're working correctly.

- "Make sure that the system is properly maintained in line with manufacturers instructions." - what instructions? We never were given any by the previous owners, and with many septic tanks as old as the hills how many householders have an instruction manuel?

- "keep all records (for example, maintenance receipts, tank emptying receipts, servicing records) relating to the system for at least five years" - that'll be a blank sheet of paper then!




In Scotland, SEPA say that sludge should be removed annually, by a licensed waste company, and you need a paper trail to prove this has been done. Some of the "old as the hills" tanks may not comply with modern standards, although many will be OK.
gil

Quote:
"Arrange for excess sludge to be regularly removed"


As in regularly every century ?
And it's only excess sludge.
Behemoth

Yes, the frequency will depend on the load and effectiveness of the tank.

Being responsible for the effective operation and maintainance of a potentially polluting asset can be a pain...or an employment opportunity
gil

Quote:
or an employment opportunity


For shovelling sh*t ?

Mine is an old brick-lined soakaway, which works very well.
Behemoth

The position of Gong Farmer is a proud and historic one!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gong_farmer
gil

'Specialised tankers'.
That would include an ordinary muck spreader operating in reverse.
Behemoth

Sort of. I think having tankers specialised for this task is probably for the best Very Happy JB

Sort of. I think having tankers specialised for this task is probably for the best Very Happy

yes you wouldn't want the dairy farm to have one tanker instead of two!
crofter

'Specialised tankers'.
That would include an ordinary muck spreader operating in reverse.

Only if your friendly local farmer has a waste transfer permit...
RichardW

'Specialised tankers'.
That would include an ordinary muck spreader operating in reverse.

Only if your friendly local farmer has a waste transfer permit...

Or he spreads it on your own land.
gil

Sorted. Very Happy Rob R

'Specialised tankers'.
That would include an ordinary muck spreader operating in reverse.

Only if your friendly local farmer has a waste transfer permit...

Or he spreads it on your own land.

AS long as you have an exemption to do so
RichardW

Lol yes,

must remember the jobs not finished till all the paper works done Shocked Shocked
chicken feed

'Specialised tankers'.
That would include an ordinary muck spreader operating in reverse.

Only if your friendly local farmer has a waste transfer permit...

Or he spreads it on your own land.

around here it has to be put from tanker to a holding tank then pumped into the fields via underground pipes, they are not allowed to spread directly onto the fields.
Ty Gwyn

I though raw sewage had to be injected not spread chicken feed

I though raw sewage had to be injected not spread

it does around here
Behemoth

Yes, it stops it being washed off the surface into watercourses by heavy rain. Rob R

You can still spread it if it is to be immediately incorporated. chicken feed

You can still spread it if it is to be immediately incorporated.

has to be treated first the rules changed in 2005 no untreated waste can be put on fields that will be used to produce for human consumption.

this information is from our local (next door waste collector/farmer)

will try and find a link later
Rob R

Here's the link; http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/business/sectors/130187.aspx

He's not quite right, but almost.
Lorrainelovesplants

They spray it direct onto the fields here. Dont imagine they would bother treating it either. Rolling Eyes chicken feed

Here's the link; http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/business/sectors/130187.aspx

He's not quite right, but almost.

he should have a idea he spent 1000's putting in holding tanks and underground injectors when the rules changed.

http://www.wte-ltd.co.uk/emptying_tanks.html

the country air smells a whole lot better around here these days Wink
Rob R

Here's the link; http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/business/sectors/130187.aspx

He's not quite right, but almost.

he should have a idea he spent 1000's putting in holding tanks and underground injectors when the rules changed.

http://www.wte-ltd.co.uk/emptying_tanks.html

the country air smells a whole lot better around here these days Wink

I'll stick to referring to the Environment Agency - the reference link to ADAS on his website is ten years out of date (April 2001)

ETA - although that link is also on the EA website, but it's guidance on best practise, rather than law. You'd have thought they would have upgraded it post-2005 though. Confused
Kenworth

Over here they must be inspected before new usage. Certain burial depths, drain field regs, etc.

Not up to code, fix or fine.
Marionb

I'm just trying to fill my form in this morning... finding a location map will be fun. However, my query is this... my septic tank is on the property next door to mine (it all used to be one property but part of it got sold off). Therefore what should I put as the location of exemption... I'm assuming it will be next door's address as thats where the tank is... am I right? Rob R

I'm just trying to fill my form in this morning... finding a location map will be fun. However, my query is this... my septic tank is on the property next door to mine (it all used to be one property but part of it got sold off). Therefore what should I put as the location of exemption... I'm assuming it will be next door's address as thats where the tank is... am I right?

If there's a separate section for correspondence address, I would put the neighour's address as location.

If you need a decent map use www.magic.gov.uk
Marionb

Thanks Rob!! roobarb

Received a paper copy for registering the septic tank this morning - looks like we're going to have to register now there is a paper trail!

Funny though how the deadline has now changed to June (it was end of December 2011)...probably when they realised that no one knew anything about it and no one registered.
TTouch Homestead

Yes, we got ours a few days ago too... Nick

They have to know you have a septic tank to send you a registration form to tell them you have a septic tank...

(nothing here!)
diggerjohn

EPP2 Legislation

A full explanation of the new legislation can be found here:[url]septic tank registration EPP2 legislation Tavascarow

They have to know you have a septic tank to send you a registration form to tell them you have a septic tank...

(nothing here!)
No, all they have to know is which households aren't paying the sewerage part of their water bill.
Behemoth

You'd think so but some households have different water and sewerage suppliers and some have no water connection but are connected to sewerage and some are connected to neither and some are illegally connected to one or the other or both and some were but have been disconnected and some have been redevloped or built, some were never on the old local authoritiy lists, some share a tank, some share a water connection, some have submeters and are resold their water by the principal customer...

...it's like nailing jelly to the wall.
lottie

We got our registration form this morning---since I don't think our back field is "an environmentally sensitive location" which would cost us 125 it looks like no problem. Very Happy Nick

They have to know you have a septic tank to send you a registration form to tell them you have a septic tank...

(nothing here!)
No, all they have to know is which households aren't paying the sewerage part of their water bill.

As Behemoth says, not quite. We don't pay any water related bill, and they keep threatening to cut us off if we don't talk to them. So we don't. But it still rains.
Behemoth


they keep threatening to cut us off if we don't talk to them. So we don't. But it still rains.

We're working on that, you'll see, mwahahah, Mwahaha, MWAHAHA.....
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