| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| tahir |
Shooting weekend?Dunno about the flyfishing, can't see any of us ever taking it up, so how about:A weekend somewhere nice where they run courses in air rifles, the sort that we could use for rabbit control.... All ideas appreciated. |
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| sean |
A quick google seems to bring up stuff with shotguns rather than air-rifles. | ||||||||
| tahir |
Yeah, that's why I asked here | ||||||||
| Behemoth |
From what I can see many gun clubs do air rifles as well:
http://www.onesite.co.uk/find/shooting.htm |
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| sean |
I assumed that but I've never been afraid to point out the bleedin' obvious.
Didn't we have at least a couple of members who were keen airgunners? Dunx/FTB/the lot who went down to Pricey's for the bunny carnage weekend? |
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| Behemoth |
http://www.cwmbran32.fsnet.co.uk/ | ||||||||
| tahir |
OK, lets put it like this, I KNOW NOTHING!
What I'm after is a weekend somewhere nice with access to somewhere to shoot the kind of air rifles I might use to control bunnies with. Dunno what they're called, or what facilities are available. Don't know that many places in the UK either. Spose from the point of view of my BILs we need somewhere with decent pubs, from FILs point of view decent (not posh) grub. I'd be happy to just get a primer in shooting so that I know whether it's something I want to get involved with. |
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| gil |
.22 air rifles, .177 at a pinch if you're accurate and the rabbits are slow |
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| cab |
Tahir, if you have plenty of space to practice, surely what you need is to get hold of an appropriate air rifle (there are people here to give you that info) and simply practice? And when you think you're good enough (and nor before you're comfortable with that) move on to live targets?
Or is handling an air rifle way more complex than that? |
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| sean |
I reckon that's about it really. |
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| hedgewitch |
What happened to the fishing trip? Honestly, men just change their mind every two minutes don't they?   
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| gil |
No, it's not complex, though basic safety routines and principles are essential. Then how to carry, load and hold the rifle, if you've never done it before. Then plenty of target practice, either tin cans on a shelf/log or paper targets pinned to a plank/board, to an increasing degree of accuracy. If none of you have ever shot before, being with someone who has is very useful.
Making a weekend of it, as a social event with practical application, rather than a bare necessity. |
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| Jonnyboy |
I was going to suggest the very same thing. we shot air rifles as kids, and now grown adults need a three week health and safety course before even venturing into a gun shop.
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| tahir |
Yeah but where's the weekend of fun to go with that? I know I'll never get round to shooting unless I go out of my way to start, this might be the opportunity that does it. |
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| sean |
Oh, don't forget to make sure that you can tell the difference between ferrets. rabbits and whippets/lurchers from a distance. Someone shot one of my ferrets with a 12 bore once. 
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| Behemoth |
...in a high-vis tabbard. |
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| Jonnyboy |
Go to blackpool for the weekend, they're bound to have an air rifle range at the fun fair.
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| Jonnyboy |
Don't get me started... |
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| tahir |
Fanks
Actually it'd be a laugh |
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| Behemoth |
A 2 pronged approach.
Choose somewhere nice to go to and go there for the weekend. Enjoy. On your return, buy an air rifle and practice. Invite the lads round to eat meat, shoot cans and reminisce about the best weekend ever. |
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| sean |
So, have you got air rifles for your sprogs yet? |
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| Northern_Lad |
In Blackpool? A more depressing hell-hole I cannot think of. |
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| Jonnyboy |
They are FAC over here. Local laws. You hardly ever see 12ft/lb rifles over here due to it. But the local shop have a nice 18ft/lbs at £250 with scope that I'm looking at. It takes 12 weeks for the licence admin though. 
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| Behemoth |
Go on, I bet you can. |
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| sean |
Just in time for Christmas pressies then.
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| lottie |
Wigan |
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| lottie |
Re: Shooting weekend?
Shane Smith shooting academy leicestershire do air rifle courses---shooting pop up animals etc--I think or in Berkshire www.countryevents.co.uk/airrifles.html |
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| Behemoth |
St Helen's Junction. | ||||||||
| tahir |
Re: Shooting weekend?
Thanks Lottie, someone cares.... |
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| sean |
Re: Shooting weekend?
We *care*, we're just no use. |
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| Behemoth |
and possibly annoying. | ||||||||
| sean |
Have you fitted the bath panel yet? | ||||||||
| tahir |
It would be nice to see him doing something useful wouldn't it? |
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| Behemoth |
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| tahir |
Re: Shooting weekend?
They do 4x4s too, reckon that could sell it to 'em. Thanks Lottie |
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| Treacodactyl |
I don't know of any places that do air rifle weekends. However, if you do end up with your own make sure you get a pellet catcher for practising with rather than leaving lead laying about where wild or domestic birds might pick it up.
If you have lots of bunnies to shoot then I would think a compressed air multi-shot air rifle is what you should hope to practice with or perhaps a .22LR rifle if the bunnies get shy. |
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| Treacodactyl |
Re: Shooting weekend?
I 'spose you could get "rabbit bars" for your 4x4 rather than bull bars and then you could simply mow down your veg nibbling varmints. |
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| Jamanda |
Scunthorpe | ||||||||
| pricey |
 Why?
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| Brownbear |
If someone's got the land, I'd be happy to offer basic lessons in choosing a rifle/air rifle and scope, zeroing, ranging, marksmanship etc. None of the people I shoot for would take kindly to my using their land for a shooting school, but other than that, I'm happy to help. | ||||||||
| Jamanda |
That's why. |
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| bernie-woman |
Walsall |
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| tahir |
Woss one of them? |
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| tahir |
Would be cool, but need land. Will contact the people in Lotties link |
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| Treacodactyl |
There's all sorts of them about, just stick pellet catcher into google. Something like this is very common, it holds your target and catches the spent pellet. http://www.cheshiregunroom.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1294 |
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| Northern_Lad |
What's Walsall ever done to you? Surely you're past it in 37 seconds, or is it for the times it takes 37 hours to get past? |
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| Nick |
How much land?
And what would be the other requirements? |
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| pricey |
When are you thinking of doing this, November and you can come and stay here, but cant do it before then because of the Holiday Makers, H&S And all that. | ||||||||
| Brownbear |
I could manage than, and there. I haven't an air rifle, but have rim fire and centre fire rifles. If someone wants advice on buying an air rifle and sight, I'd be happy to advise and then later set it up as a way of demonstrating the techniques. In fact, I'd be happy to help as many people as wanted to get their sights tuned in, guns set up etc. | ||||||||
| whitelegg1 |
Busy schedule allowing, I would happily support this 'event'.
Be very careful talking to gun shop owners about what equipment you need. From experience, you can get some bad and dangerous advice!! Airifles: Spring powered = cheap to run but accuracy suffers more from recoil PCP (Pre-Chargded Pneumatic) = more expensive to buy and to run, have to refill them from a scuba bottle or pump up by hand(arms like Popeye!!) BUT they can be very very accurate, effectively zero recoil. I can consistently hit a 5p piece from 35 yards. .22 = usually harder hitting, and for pcp's uses less air per shot so more effecient. .177 = usually more accurate due to higher velocity and lower weight, giving better ballistics. They have a less pronounced loop to the trajectory. At the end of the day .22 or .177 from a sensible distance will do the job on rabbits. PROVIDED you hit the right place. Since you shouldn't be shooting them anywhere other than the brain.....the best is the most accurate you can afford. In my opinion. The age old problem is getting close enough to the rabbit to actually shoot it! Pete P.S. Steer well clear of the Chinese £35 air rifles.......you may get a good one, but I doubt it.....money wasted and if you do use it on a rabbit, you would most likely wound it IF you mangaed to hit it..... |
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| hedgewitch |
Birmingham. All of it,. Really - it's dreadful.
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| whitelegg1 |
I say this with some incredulity.I'm free every weekend in November
Don't know how long that will last! Pete 
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| pricey |
you can come down any time you like
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| whitelegg1 |
I am touched.
Unfortunately, I have been told I can't come down any weekend I'd like to. Only the one's when I'm free
Pete (I will take you up on that offer hopefully) |
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| tahir |
Dunno, so November could be done eh? Worrabout guns? None of us own any. (Ta v much BTW) |
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| tahir |
Yeah spoke to a friend who shoots yesterday and he said a .22 rinfire would be better as it wouldn't need such accuracy, a body shot would kill. So dunno what I should be doing really. |
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| Brownbear |
A rimfire is better - with a decent sound mod it's quiet, it's effective with a 40-grain hollow-point projectile rather than an 8-grain pointed one, and a shot to the upper chest at 75 yards is just as deadly as an airgun shot to the head at 20 yards, and a lot easier to achieve. | ||||||||
| tahir |
Swot he said, only downside being that I need an FAC isn't it? Is the kit a lot dearer? |
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| Brownbear |
Fifty quid for your application, about the same for a cabinet, two references and a letter saying you have permission to shoot somewhere, or if you have your own land no probs. You can get a good .22 for £200, a superb one for £450, and then say about £150-£300 for a good scope. With an airgun, you're looking at about £400 for a fairly average one. A lot more engineering in an airgun. If it's a precharged one, you've got hassle with pumps and bottles and all. With a rimmy, pop in a magazine and you're away. Far better in all respects, IMO. |
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| tahir |
Best thing would be to join a gun club for training would it? | ||||||||
| Frewen |
You can apply for a firearms licence online Tahir - do you want me to find the page? It will take me two clicks 
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| tahir |
Ta Frewen, might not be ready for it yet though. | ||||||||
| Andy B |
Your not wrong ! And whats worse is its getting worse crime and antisocial behavior is so common its like they given up trying to control it. |
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| Brownbear |
Joining a rifle club is good for your application anyway - speeds it up a bit as a rule. But you still need the land or authority to shoot bunnies in order to be able to buy hollowpoint ammo. Coaching often costs a few quid - £50/hour is not uncommon. I'd be happy to offer coaching for free if this weekend happens. |
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| Frewen |
here you go
https://www.essexpolice.org/services/s_fa_03.php?type= Saves you going into a station to ask
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| gil |
Hi Frewen, yes please. Been meaning to get round to this for some time, and might as well do now. |
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| tahir |
Ta for the offer, what happened about land to shoot on? And we ain't got no firearms... |
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| Brownbear |
If someone can provide the land, I have a .22, a .223, a 6.5x55 and a .308. That should keep us occupied for a while. |
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| tahir |
Ta |
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| Frewen |
Gil - being in Scotland and having different laws from England/Wales I don't know what juristiction you fall under or what procedure you will have to follow. Which constabulary covers you? I'll see what I can find. |
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| gil |
Dumfries and Galloway. Hadn't realised you were giving Tahir the Essex link - thought there might be a central web point for downloading info/forms. Point taken about Scotland - it probably will be different up here. | ||||||||
| sean |
ISTR that Pricey's place will only allow airguns for insurance reasons. |
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| Frewen |
Gil try this
http://www.dg.police.uk/firearms/fels/forms/fa_app.pdf Link fairy can. edit : sorry - I can't do the link fairy but it's quite fun doing this - almost like being back at work 
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| gil |
Thanks, Frewen | ||||||||
| Treacodactyl |
That's what I said a few pages back. I'm a member of a rifle club that shoots on an indoor range. You do meet other people and after you've been checked out and serve a probation period they will act as one of your FAC references. You are shown what to do etc although most of that can be picked up in a few hours, we also had to go regularly before becoming full members. I'm not sure if you would get the time, perhaps a days course might be more suitable. |
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| gil |
It depends what you want to do with the rabbits afterwards. Vermin control, food source, or both. Personally, I've gone for learning to shoot accurately, so I can kill with a head shot, as I don't want to be eating a carcass that's full of lead as well as bones (might break my teeth). Hence I use a .177. |
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| tahir |
Food source too. | ||||||||
| tahir |
Might be. Better find a club |
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| lottie |
My youngest's at Uni there and loves the place!!---mind you there are spots he avoids since someone was shot outside a nightclub he was at 
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| hedgewitch |
I just couldn't take to it. But I don't like Sheffield either, and a lot of people really love it.
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| Brownbear |
I've shot plenty of rabbits through the head, and plenty through the heart as well. Doesn't seem to affect their use as meat. The bullet expands and then exits. Never found a bit of lead, though I did once bite on an airgun pellet that had lodged in a rabbit at some previous point. | ||||||||
| lottie |
I agree about Brum actually--feels like a vision of hell as you drive towards the place---my M.I.L lives in Sheffield which grim tho' it is is 100% better than Birmingham | ||||||||
| gil |
I've been using an air rifle, and find the pellets lodge rather than exiting. hence the head shots. | ||||||||
| bernie-woman |
It is just horrible - ugly place which even on the happiest days can drain you of all cheer and happiness. In fcat the only good thing about it is that in the Art gallery lifts the voice that tells which floor you are on and that the door is closing is Noddy Holders
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| whitelegg1 |
Something tells me that Tahir won't have a problem with Land and Authority FAC 'should' be fairly straightforward.
However, not wanting to be a stick in the mud, but..... I was under the impression that one cannot use someone elses firearm. Even when supervised. On regular land. The rules may be different at a range or club (and they most probably are). But you can borrow a shotgun, you can borrow the estate owners firearm, but you cannot shoot someone elses firearm (who is NOT the estate owner). 6.16 Section 16(1) of the 1988 Act enables a person to borrow a rifle from the occupier of private premises and to use it on those premises in the presence of either the occupier or their servant without holding a firearm certificate in respect of that rifle. It should be noted that this gives slightly more flexibility in the use of a borrowed rifle than is permissible with the use of a shot gun as described in paragraph 6.14, in that the borrowed rifle can also be used in the presence of the servant of the occupier. However, the occupier and/or their servant must hold a firearm certificate in respect of the firearm being used, and the borrower, who must be accompanied by the certificate holder (whether it is the occupier or their servant), must comply with the conditions of the certificate. These may include a safekeeping requirement and, in some cases, territorial restrictions. Section 57(4) of the 1968 Act defines “premises” as including any land. The effect of the provision is to allow a person visiting a private estate to borrow and use a rifle without a certificate. The exemption does not extend to persons under the age of 17 or to other types of firearm. There is no notification required on the loan of a firearm under these circumstances. A borrowed rifle should not be specifically identified as such on a “keeper’s” or “landowner’s” firearm certificate. The term “in the presence of” is not defined in law but is generally interpreted as being within sight and earshot. Frustratingly it would appear that the estate owner needs to be the owner of the firearm if it is to be lent! What you do do is up to you of course. Forwarned is forarmed (or not!) Pete |
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| hedgewitch |
Is that in case you miss with the gun? Club 'em to death?
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| hedgewitch |
Yes - would agree. And I got to quite like bits of Eccelsall Road in Sheffield - the 'hippy' bit near the school.. |
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| tahir |
Yeah, they don't scare me |
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| hedgewitch |
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| whitelegg1 |
There is a place in Essex.
http://www.airgunfarm.co.uk/ Near Chelmsford. just of the A12 This would be a good place to go with an 'instructor' or just to spend some time getting the feel of an air rifle. Pete |
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| tahir |
Looks pretty good, been there? | ||||||||
| whitelegg1 |
Not yet!
Pete |
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| sparky |
hi i do a fir bit of shooting and even with a rimfire i tend to not take a body shots as even as close as 20 yards i have seen them get to there hole or hedge row and die out of reach so i would say if you cannot get a head shot dont take it
unless it is with .17 or 223 
patience =accuracy=dinner rush =inaccuracy=long slow death |
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| whitelegg1 |
Assuming you mean .17 Remington, with those two calibers, I would have said, you wouldn't need to gut the rabbit either....or pick it up. As there wouldn't be much left!!!! The ballistic trauma caused by the high velocity would be phenominal!!
Pete
P.S. Would you Devon boys be up for a weekend and Pricey's?[/u] |
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| sparky |
pre mashed ferret food
always up for bunny bashing
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| Nick |
I may have missed a bit of this thread, but I have some land. How much do we need, and how far from the highways/other people's stuff do we need to be.
I'm happy to lend the land out, along with space for camping, use of the kitchen/bathrooms sort of thing. Don't really have room for people to sleep inside right now, due to flood induced carnage, but that aside... There's also a plentiful supply of rabbits & pigeons... |
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| Brownbear |
Well, if someone can't hit a rabbit in the head at 60 yards, I don't see why they'd be able to hit it at 20 either. It's not that different - eht bullet goes where you point the rifle. You have to calculate the drop, but if you know your rabbit is 60 yards off, and the bullet falls by 4 clicks or 1 MOA or whatever frim your zeroed range, then the correction is a simple one. Shooting things in the guts is a rotten way to shoot - cruel, ineffective as even if you retrieve the animal the stomach contents will have ruined the meat anyway, and indicative of ignorance of proper shot placement. But it's perfectly effective to drop a bunny with a round through the upper chest - hitting the heart and lungs. It's how deer are shot, after all. |
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| whitelegg1 |
It's all gone very quiet on this thread
Pete
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| tahir |
Twatting BILs decided he can't go, scared of his missus.
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| welsh lamb |
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