| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| Fran Calderbank |
Slugs and Snails.I have just got an allotment and have started planting my first produce. This is thanks to the kind hearted people who have donated various vegetables.However, I have already come to my first major problem. Slugs and snails that eat most things overnight to my dismay. I put my young seedlings in the ground and they have their feast, only to leave vacant spaces to be filled for their following evenings meal. I have been told to use the blue pellet form of pest control. I do not want to go down this road if I can help it. I don’t know if it will have any adverse effect on my vegetables when they mature. Does anybody know of another method of beating the little beasties? I would be pleased to hear form anybody who as combated this problem in a more environmentally friendly manner. |
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| cab |
Well, depending on the pellets, they're not all THAT environmentally nasty.
My top tips for slugs and snails: (1) Torch and scissors, at night. Less useful on a plot than in the garden. (2) Beer traps. Old pie tins work well, and brown ale tends to attract more to a beery drowning than other brews. (3) Egghells/coarse sand, in rings around vulnerable plants, can help a lot. (4) Clear weeds/clutter away. Don't give them shelter near your veg; the down side is that pest eating insects also have less shelter. (5) Copper tape. Works a treat. It's expensive, though. (6) Grow plants on indoors or away from the plot till they're big enough and ugly enough to fend off a bti of slug damage. I often find that this is my best bet. (7) Purge the snails on a diet of lettuce for a few days, ideally 5. Starve them for two days, then make sure they're all still alive before plunging into boiling water for a few minutes. When they've all popped out of the shells, take the hard bits off, remove fully from the shells, and chop them coarsely. Add them to any wild mushroom risotto recipe, and they'll be divine; don't stint on the garlic. |
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| Behemoth |
Grow your seedlings in pots until they are large enough to survive an attack, although this is not always a guarentee.
Then there's the usual slug traps involving a jar and beer. Sharp gravel scattered around the plants. Coffee grinds the dont likeeither. For a bit more cash you can by nematodes that eat there way through the slugs: http://www.nickys-nursery.co.uk/seeds/pages/nematode.htm |
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| whitelegg1 |
Along with sand and eggshell, try sprinkling woodash and hair, both good for the soil and the slugs hate it. Also heard that they don't like chicken manure. | ||||
| judith |
And don't forget the coffee jar on its side full of bran. Exploding slugs. Love it 
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| cab |
I've been using dog hair; that sounds insane, I know, but I pass a dog grooming 'salon' on the way to the plot, and I can pick up bin bags of the stuff. Primarily it's to deter foxes (I figure the smell might put them off and stop them playing with my string, and digging under my muck pile), but it might also do for slugs. | ||||
| tahir |
Slug murderers  
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| judith |
Pinko mollusc lover | ||||
| Behemoth |
Gastropodista! |
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| sean |
Or try attracting a hedgehog. | ||||
| whitelegg1 |
Talking of the coffe jar, used coffee grounds are meant to be good....Although as I was drying out my last batch, the OH said what's that pot of compost on the windowsill.....she had been watering it!!!
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| footprints |
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| judith |
The slugs eat the bran, the bran then absorbs any liquid inside the slug, which makes it expand, and expand, ... | ||||
| greenbean |
In my (very limited) experience, the best way is to get torch and tongs to pick them up at night and pop into a tupperware box (I did the scissors once and discovered half a slug had crawled/slimed for about a yard before completely dying, I do hate them but still don't like to cause pain. I put some lettuce or cabbage in the box and then when walking my dog the next day I release them into the woods, they take a bit of getting out the box (I had thought about flicking them at my horrid neighbour's garden but with my luck I'd be caught  ). I have also had success with lying down copper pipe on the soil which acts as a barrier. I have also made wee plastic rings cut with pinking shears to make jaggy edge from used water bottles. I'm going to start another post here about ants now, as they are my biggest problem just now. Good luck, love, Greenbean.
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| tahir |
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| footprints |
snail bran
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| Bugs |
Oh, no, Greenbean, don't do that! They'll come straight back. Pick someone you don't like who lives further away
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| Treacodactyl |
Get chickens! They eat the smaller slugs and snails that tend to do most of the damage. The larger slugs can be hunted with a big stick and the largest snails can be eaten by your good self. (Or, like me, you can put them in a bucket for a few days to purge and along comes something and snaffles them. )
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| Guest |
snail bran
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| greenbean |
OK, Hadn't thought about them coming back, thanks. Not that I was going to actually do it.  He does deserve it as he took down a beautiful 70 year old hedge that was my boundary and replaced it with a fence (whilst we were out). I think he must have been a slug in his last life, he certainly hasn't evolved much.
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| JonO |
Has anyone tried nematodes ? Supposed to be better than pellets and also more greener, as wildlife (and poultry) can eat the dead slugs ?
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| Treacodactyl |
we tried them in our first year here. They did work and kept the slugs down. We don't use them now we have hens and I'm also not sure if they can affect pond snails etc in our ponds. Worth a go if you have lots of slugs and snails. | ||||
| JonO |
I am actually having quite a few problems with slugs and snails only since I seperated my garden up and the the chickens and ducks are now not near near the veg patch (obvious advantages as well as disadvantages !)
The slimy fellas are having a field day with my rocket,spinach and squash and my nematodes should arrive tomorrow. I have heard that they should not be put down anywhere near a pond though as Treacodactyl says, as they do disturb the balance in the pond and kill some creatures off. I will tell you in about a week if there any good ! |
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| judith |
How much do the nematodes cost these days? The last time I considered it, I decided that I could buy an awful lot of veg for the price of a couple of applications, and just couldn't justify it. Although, I suppose if it breaks the reproduction cycle, it could have a knock-on effect for future years. | ||||
| Behemoth |
When I looked a three dose application to see you through the year cost in the order of £75. I lived with the slugs even though they ate my chillies. | ||||
| judith |
If your slugs are that hard, you wouldn't want to make them cross, would you? | ||||
| Bugs |
That's a good point, and why we've not used it since...although as you say there could have been a knock on effect, and then we got chickens as well, which helped. We're on chalk which seems to come with snails, as an added hurdle just in case you do manage to get anything to grow, and although we have plenty of snails it's not horrific. However when I was at my mum's last week (Midlands clay...not sure what else although there is a nature reserve type thing out the back, with allotments the other side of that), her back yard (rarely used) was like the Pied Piper of Snail Hamlin had been using it for flute practice. I had to start throwing them over the fence (I know it doesn't work but it will give the plants a head start) after my shoes started to get slippy
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| Lozzie |
We used nemotodes - just one dose at the beginning of the season, and it seemed to work very well indeed. Problem was you kept coming across the slimy deposits of unmentionable goooo that used to be their bodies. I don't remembre it being THAT expensive - maybe because we didn't have that large a space that needed doing.
http://www.greengardener.co.uk/slug.htm Chickens are good, but they eat small frogs, too 
One way we tried on our last lottie was making collars out of plastic bottles - about 2 and a half inches deep or so, but cut with zig-zag pinking shears. That gave them vicious sharp little teeth that deterred slugs and snails quite well. |
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| Guest |
[b]Please excuse my ignorance but what are nematodes. Could somebody explain what they do?[/b] |
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| cab |
Yes, as long as you promise to stop shouting 
Nematodes are really primitive, really simple llittle work like creatures. There are untold thousands of species of nematodes, and one of them has been exploited for its ability to perasitise slugs and snails. The practical end of this is that you buy the nematodes, let 'em go, and they take care of the snails and slugs for you. When it works, it's great, and many people have had a lot of success with this method. The down side is that it's expensive if you're trying to protect a large area. |
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| Bugs |
Not many garden centres/nurseries stock them yet, because they are living creatures, obviously you can't just bung em on a shelf and leave them to dry off. I think they tend to be kept refrigerated if they are kept for any length of time. You buy them in a sealed pack (look a bit like a ready meal if I remember correctly) and they're so tiny, you can't see them, they are in a mix (sand?rock?soil?) that you mix in with a bucket of water and water over the patch...you should do it at a damp time/keep the soil damp as they will die off without enough (I don't know how much is enough) moisture.
That's for the slug ones at any rate, I think they do different nematodes for different nefarious critters. |
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| cab |
I've seen them in a fridge in one of the better local garden centres we have, a place downin Shelford called Scotdales. But I've never seen such things in a 'chain' centre. But then again, I got blank looks this Spring asking in one of those places about seed potatoes... | ||||
| Behemoth |
Here's the producer's website: http://www.nemasysinfo.com/ | ||||
| wellington womble |
I tried these, and haven't seen many slugs (I once collected 112 in an evening - I barbequed them!) just the odd one round the patio, where I couldn't sprinkle, loads of snails still, but they are heavier, so you can throw them further!
I recall it being about a tenner, and I think the trick with it is to get in early and stop the buggers breeding. Many people have said they didn't need to reapply, although it does say you should. I suppose if you had a walled garden (sigh!) you could probably eliminate them! I bought it from HDRA, but some garden centres sell cards, where you pay them, post off the card, and they post the beasties. They just look like powder in a ready meal pack, and you need to store them in the fridge, and use them within a week or so. Do they do anything for aphids? I don;t mind the odd greenfly, but they bring the wasps in. |
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| Andrea |
I tried everything to keep the slugs of my poor wee lettuces and seem to have finally cracked it.
Every morning & evening I go outside & collect any of the buggers I can catch, then I lightly rake over the soil between the plants. Apparantly slugs & snails follow their slime trails back to tasty feeding spots, and disturbing the trail encourages them to try somewhere else. Can't believe it's that simple, but it seems to be working for me! I haven't worked out what to do with the bags of slugs I collect though, in the absence of ducks. My son enjoys flinging them over the fence into the neighbours but I have horrible visions of him hitting someone out for an early potter! I cop out & just tie the bag & chuck it in the weelie bin. Somewhere I was reading recently suggested putting them in your compost heap as they'd assist in the decomposition process and tend to stay put due to the availability of food. I'm not convinced they wouldn't just escape & head straight back to my lettuces though. Do people here really eat snails from the garden? Eeeew! I'm afraid snails come into the category of things I would have to be very hungry to try, so excuse my ignorance as I don't take allot of notice, but I figured the ones you ate were a special breed. Andrea |
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| Treacodactyl |
I'll let you know by the middle of next week as mine are purging for a few more days. 
The large brown snails you get are eaten in France, I think they are the standard ones people eat but others such as the Roman snail and other larger ones are eaten. I must admit the Roman snails look far more edible as they are less slimy and look more 'meaty'. Thanks for the raking tip. |
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| cab |
Yes, sometimes. And very tasty they are too
Remember, the two big species of snail you're likely to find in your garden ARE special breeds, introduced by the Romans (or so they say) for food. |
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| Andrea |
So, if I laid aside my prejudice against slimy things & decided to give it a go in the name of research ....
Could I eat any of the garden snails you find in this country? I imagine only the big brown variety (are these the 'roman' ones?) would be worth the bother, but want to check I'm not going to poison anyone! And what would I do with them? |
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| Treacodactyl |
Roman snails are larger and paler than the common large snail. Take a look at this thread for a bit more info on what to do with them. I'll try and get some pics of our snails and some Roman ones when I can.
http://forum.downsizer.net/viewtopic.php?t=3621 |
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| Andrea |
That would be good, now that I've committed myself! Peering out the window here, it's bucketing down with rain. Might be able to capture my first victims tonight 
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| judith |
How do snails compare to winkles texture-wise? I definitely have a mental block about snails for absolutely no reason that I can justify. Keep us posted Andrea - I want to see how someone similarly squeamish about the idea gets on! | ||||
| JonO |
Update :
Well a week ago I put nemaslug down and since then I have had no slug/snail attacks ! This was not before they managed to wipe out all my squash and some courgette plus a lot of my salad crop the week before. I was going a bit mad over it but the stuff seems to save my greens and my sanity ! 
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| judith |
Sounds like a result, JonO. Will you be applying it again later in the season? | ||||
| wellington womble |
I haven't had many slugs, but the snail population is healthy! Body counts are dropping off now (only one small snail last night) but I did notice lots of slug eggs on some plants I bought in recently, I squashed them, but watch out (so handy that they're bright yellow!) |
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| Bugs |
I think slug eggs are white/clear...the yellow things are fertiliser..I think..but don't worry, I won't tell if you don't, and nobody will see this
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| cab |
Bugs, thank you for saying that, I was thinking a very similar thing | ||||
| wellington womble |
Do fertilizers go crunch/squish then? I'm not taking any chances, and fertiliser probably still works squished! | ||||
| cab |
Wellington, they were yellow you say? Were they gelatinous or were they more kind of solid looking? And you say they were on a plant? More like the eggs laid by a butterfly, I think. |
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| sally_in_wales |
Just managed half an hour hacking back the jungle that had grown in the garden while we were away, and as well as scoffing all my courgettes in pots, the little buggers had seen off the perpetual spinach and the spring onions. Have they no limits? Anyway, have now stuffed some potatoes that had sprouted in the veg rack while we were away into the empty plot, maybe we'll get a few baby spuds at the end of the season if all else fails. grrr | ||||
| wellington womble |
No, in the compost, round the roots. I don't think they were fertiliser, as they are similar to the ones I find all over the garden, and squish, and I don't use any granular fertiliser like that - they hard on the outside, and squishy on the inside, and make a very satisfying crunch/squish when you squash them! bright yellow may have been a slight exageration, definitely yellow though. |
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| JonO |
Nope, I'm hoping this will get the bulk of them and reduce overall numbers, and by the time the 6 weeks runs out most of my plants should be sturdier. The chucks and ducks can polish off the remainding straglers ! |
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| cab |
Hmmm. Slug ones tend to be very gelatinous, I find. Wonder what yours were. Oh, well, they're not going to be bothering anyone any time soon... |
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| Res |
I get them yellow eggs around fruit plants like strawberries and gooseberries that are planted in potting compost. Have not worked out what they are yet but they do have a hard shell. They are certainly NOT fertilizer guys. I suppose the only sure way to find out is to put one in isolation and see what hatches
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| sean |
Just make sure you've got Sigourney Weaver around when it happens... |
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| Res |
LOL! you might have a point there Sean, but I might get a bit distracted with Sigourney around waving her powerful weapons around
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| Treacodactyl |
Why do you say they are not fertilizer? Slow release fertilizers often leave old yellow cases that are squishy and give a yellow liquid when crushed. |
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| wellington womble |
I wonder if they're snail eggs? If they're fertiliser, I'm not bothered wither way, but I hope they're not some friendly little beastie - wouldn't like to be crushing ladybirds or lacewings or anything. I'll take some snaps next time I do some planting. I'm not hatching any - the slugs get enough breaks as far as I'm concerned!
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| Guest |
We have tried the "beer traps" here with considerable success. Just get a shallow dish, half fill it with beer (pref. brown ale but lager or any beer will do) and sink it into the soil - one at the end of each row of vulnerable veg. I use the dregs of my fermenter which proves very popular with the little blighters an avoids wasting good beer.
I also heard that you can rip old copper pipe down the centre (longways), flatten it out and then put it around the edge of you veg patch. Apparently it gives the slugs / snails an electrical "tingle" which they do not like and therefore they avoid crossing it. I have yet to try this method as my beer traps are working OK S |
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| Guest |
We have tried the "beer traps" here with considerable success. Just get a shallow dish, half fill it with beer (pref. brown ale but lager or any beer will do) and sink it into the soil - one at the end of each row of vulnerable veg. I use the dregs of my fermenter which proves very popular with the little blighters an avoids wasting good beer.
I also heard that you can rip old copper pipe down the centre (longways), flatten it out and then put it around the edge of you veg patch. Apparently it gives the slugs / snails an electrical "tingle" which they do not like and therefore they avoid crossing it. I have yet to try this method as my beer traps are working OK S |
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| Blue Sky |
Sorry I just posted twice, and sorry I forgot to log in. My browser is doing very strange things this morning. Must be something to do with the massive storm we have just had. | ||||
| cab |
Beer traps work, sort of, but I sometimes wonder whether they're THAT good an idea. Ever go out and look at what the drunk survivors are getting up to? It ain't pretty, and they'll regret it in the morning. Rather like students after a few beers, I suppose.
Seriously, I often wonder whether you're killing off some of the adults and gaining lots more young ones. |
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| thescientist |
slugshi, i am just starting a research on how to effectively erradicate slugs without altering the ecosystem or other organisms.the big problem is that in my home there are no slugs, you know dry weather and very high temperatures. that's why i was asking myself, we do you guys live! i need lots of slugs to start breeding them. i haven't even checked the origin of this forum, is it american? (hope so...) anyway, thank you very much. i'll await anyone's answer and may be we can get into an arrangement to deal with those slugs
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| Treacodactyl |
We are mainly based in the UK, quite a few in Europe and some others from all over the place.
Although in some places we can go a few months without much rain and still get hundreds of slugs & snails they do emerge once it's rained or when it's getting damp over night. |
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| judith |
Re: slugs
I can't see how you could eradicate slugs without altering the ecosystem since there are beasties upstream in the food chain that eat them. You would have to provide these other animals with an alternative source of food. |
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| wellington womble |
Re: slugs
Question is, where do YOU live - Oh for a life without slugs! Also there are about 50 outside my back door a the moment, awaiting dispatch - where shall I send them?
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| Blue Sky |
NOT THIS WAY, that's for sure
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| thescientist |
slugsactually judith, i'm planning to use ionic compounds plus lewis bases that could help crops.answering the other question... right now i'm living in Monterrey, Mexico but obviously i myself would be paying the expenses of delivery. i'll be writing the names of the lucky slug-hunters on the research paper, reward is deserved. anyone interested? please... really need those slugs. |
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| thescientist |
slugsoh im so sorry judith. i forgot to write in my last post, that the research is on "pests". though the term is not perfectly adequate. |
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| judith |
Re: slugs
It was more the animal species upstream in the food chain that I was worried about rather than the crops being grown. Are you going to provide them with an alternative food source? Words like "eradication" bother me a lot. I'm much more of a "balance" sort of girl myself .
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| dougal |
Re: slugs
J-U-D-Y ! Quick! Export order for unlimited quantities of organic welsh slugs! Well, it has to be an improvement on your idea of eating them - and most of our other 'helpful' suggestions! |
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| tahir |
Re: slugs
We're UK based although we do have a few international users |
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| Treacodactyl |
I don't think US or Mexico customs would be happy with a consignment of UK slugs. I'm not sure if they would survive the post or even if they would escape. 
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| thescientist |
Re: slugs
pardon me but, i didn't quite get that =S. i would never eat slugs if that's what you were thinking... |
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| tahir |
Re: slugs
There's been debate here on the edibility of slugs |
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| thescientist |
slugsslugs can be sent to either:
North Carolina, US Massa, Italy any destination you chose i'll appreciate it. once more, please... i really need those mollusks. i'm sure they can survive delivery, i'm paying airship. the box could have some orchard, damp plants for their survival. thanks for your posts. |
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| dougal |
Re: slugs
If this is serious, may I suggest that you register so that people can 'dialog' with you directly by Private Messaging (maybe better than an overt posting of an email address). I suppose the ideal thing for simplicity would be to have you instruct your carrier (FedEx?) to collect. That'd save international reimbursement problems. Now, how many hundred do you need? |
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| thescientist |
slugs
no judith, my work is on pests. as it is on slugs, it could have been on rabbits, rats, roaches, spiders, wasps... whatever. the point is that when animals become pests they have to be controlled. otherwise, ecosystems would definitely undergo serious damages and changes. not to mention how costly is it when they are found eating your garden plants. they have an affinity for dicots. may be eradicte is a strong word, "to lessen" would be fine then. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ i just can't imagine your houses and gardens full of slugs. i have a very scarce population of slugs due to weather conditions. but anyway, the destruction they do on my ornamental plants and flowers is critical. this is where my inspiration of studying slugs comes from. |
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| thescientist |
i'm registered now. i need zip codes to calculate shipping costs. | ||||
| Treacodactyl |
Re: slugs
Most people on here would agree slugs and snails are pests but the ones we have here are native and fit in to our ecosystem. Snails for example provide food for thrushes (lovely song birds) and if too many snails are killed all at once then the thrushes may dies out. Some of the many beetles and things like slow worms (fantastic legless lizards) eat slugs and again a sudden loss of slugs could kill off them. So, control is ok IMHO as long as the control area is limited and there's no chance whatever is controlling them gets out of control itself - like so many things man has done. I think people would wish to know what sort of control methods you are looking into before deciding to help. I am still unsure about sending snails from England all the way to Mexico, I'm not personally keen on spreading alien species around. Is there no way of collecting them more locally, through schools or something in Mexico? |
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| thescientist |
Re: slugs
And that’s fine, I mean… I’m not trying to eliminate slugs from this world. I focus myself on situations when slugs become plagues, having lots of slugs (like you, I suppose because of what you just said) is quite different from having plagues of slugs. Sometimes, these kinds of alterations (plagues) come from humans’ misuse of resources by modifying the natural order of an ecosystem. These variations can start as simple as when occupying a territory. We consume, we modify and thus, everything changes. In some cases, species multiply themselves at a great rate by diverse causes. It could be for their own survival or because the alterations made by men are now being pretty favourable to certain species. Consequently, the “alteration problem” worsens and a method to stabilize or “balance” has to be designed for everyone’s good. When masses and masses of animals damage other things that corrupt the food chain, one should worry about this issue and try to deal with it; because it is more likely to lessen a great population to conserve the natural order, than to helping it to keep growing. Think about the consequences, as primer example you have plants. They will surely die as they are being infested. And I know you have no plague, but some crops do and it could be a good idea to produce more vegetables rather than letting slugs eating them all. My idea is to design a substance favourable to plants and, definitely not for slugs. The materials I am using were mentioned before already, but in case you didn’t read them here they are: Ionic compounds, Lewis Bases and probably I’ll be playing with more stuff. I promise that when the research is done I can send you the method, the investigation plan as well as the results. Thanks for your posts and remember… I am not a species-killer. I love reptiles. I’ve got a Nile Monitor, a Bearded Dragon and a Veiled Chameleon. |
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| judyofthewoods |
Re: slugs
Salt? |
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| thescientist |
Re: slugs
Of course, salt is the most common. Between the bonding of Na+ and Cl- there is a transference of electrons. (The cation donates and the anion receives, this is done so that both can complete their octet and form a stable molecule). That's why it is called an ionic bond and therefore, an ionic compound. You should know more ionic compounds, that's not the only one... 
Check elecronegativity and ionization energy. -_-u |
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| thescientist |
bonding classI forgot to mention that not all bonds determine the type of compound it is. Study polarity in CO2 -_-U |
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| thescientist |
... | ||||
| hils |
Did anyone see the spring watch where Bill was saying about slugs -"Big and black put it back, small and brown let it drown!"
or something like that... The black ones apparantly eat decaying undergrowth and the brown ones eat your plants. Saw a big black one last night and thanks to Bill I didn't feel the need to exterminate. |
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| hils |
My robin at the allotment (as can be seen to your left) likes a big tray of the little critters. I'm thinking about making a platform with a tray on it edged with copper to stop the slugs and snails I put on there escaping. Is this a little extreme? | ||||
| wellington womble |
Nope - have been known to take mine to the park to feed them to the ducks! To the delight of the duckies and the horror of all the mummies, and the mixed delight and disgust and universal fascinatioin of their toddlers!
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| judyofthewoods |
In the current political climate of the US, would they allow in weapons of mass destruction? |
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| thescientist |
slugs
Huh? Are you being sarcastic? Do you consider slugs as a menace?
I haven't read of any slug hunters... I'd better start watering my garden until it drowns. Thanks anyway for taking your time reading my posts. |
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| judyofthewoods |
Re: slugs
The evidence speaks for itself PS confession: it was my cat who actually killed the bunny 
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| tahir |
Radio 4 Monday 16:00 The Food Programme
Sheila Dillon follows the trail of the new-found British passion for the snail. She visits the country's largest snail farm to discover the intricacies of heliculture and to find out why the British government is urging more farmers to move into snail farming. And there's a feature from Bosnia about the sudden boom in snail farming there. Sheila samples various kinds of snail, including the giant African land snail, and tucks into a bowl of Heston Blumenthal's special snail porridge. |
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| thescientist |
Slug shipping to Monterrey, MexicoHello Judith of the Woods!!!It's been a while since I last wrote in this forum. I just wanted to tell you and rest of the people here... that my research brought ashtonishing results. Appeareantly, caffeine not only would help people get rid of slugs but it would also nurture their ornate plants. For experimentation, I finally got slugs from local gardens and created a slug greenhouse, which gave me lots of eggs! Anyway, hope you gave great slug days... and thank you for all your sarcasm. It was a good push on my way to culminate my work
Bye bye! |
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| 12Bore |
Re: Slug shipping to Monterrey, Mexico
So wasn't wasting my time or imagining things when I was sprinkling Starbucks leftover coffee grounds around my veg last season. I thought there were fewer slugs than previously!
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| Vanessa |
BRILLIANT!! Coffee grounds will forever more go into a special pot to be used against slugs
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