| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| bodger |
So much for the sparrow flying in through the ventilatorTheory !Have a look at this . My apologies beforhand if any clever soul has already posted this. 
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1336937.ece lorries from Hungary did come regularly to the Holton turkey plant (note - not farm ) |
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| dpack |
not even bm grows turkeys on plants although there was a golden egged goose up a beanstalk iirc
or has someone been selling trangenics equipment again 
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| dougal |
Bodger, I fear that much of this speculation has been fuelled by press reporting that the virus was "the same strain" as found in Hungary.
As far as I know, the Suffolk virus has not yet been sequenced - and the sequence data certainly hasn't been released yet. Its most likely that what is meant by "the same strain" is that both the Hungerian outbreak and the Suffolk one were due to the so-called Quinghai strain of H5N1 (It first appeared at Quinghai lake in China about 18 months ago. This strain has been the broad categorisation that has been responsible for outbreaks across Asia, through the Middle East and Egypt and across Africa to Nigeria and West Africa. It is the strain that was found in the outbreak in France and the Fife dead swan last year. Honestly, it would be news if this *wasn't* the "Quinghai strain" of H5N1. However, its (I think) rather too early to say that the virus is similar in fine detail to the Hungarian one, let alone that they are identically one and the same. The fact, which seems established, is that the virus was only found in *one* of the Mathews sheds. That does tend to indicate that the source was related to that *single* shed, rather than the installation as a whole. There is a certain amount of concern that the widlife monitoring has been somewhat imperfect - last year there were articles in New Scientist about the sample handling methodology being wrong - and resulting in it finding almost no evidence even of 'ordinary' bird flu viruses that are known to be more common than detected by the monitoring. http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg19025473.600 There may well be more in wild birds than the authorities believe. http://www.recombinomics.com/News/02040701/H5N1_England_Surprise.html The Mathews installation is quite close to the coast and various wetland bird reserves. Aquatic birds seem to have been responsible for the long-range transmission of the disease. And transmitting it to other wild and domestic birds in the vicinity of their stopping places. A wild bird getting into one shed is perfectly plausible. And would explain why the virus was only in one shed. We may have to wait a while for the detail of the virus structure and how it fits with the Hungarian one. There's no need for conspiracy theories in the meantime. By all means blame Mathews for keeping birds in intensive sheds. But if their hygiene was good enough to prevent the spread shed-to-shed, I think it actually looks irrational to claim that their hygiene was bad enough to spread the virus from country to country, and somehow only to one single shed in this country. |
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| LynneA |
I think we'd all sussed out there was a link - but being a big corporate farming operation, DEFRA will do everything to cover up the trail.
Woe betide any small scale keeper in East Anglia who has a bird fall ill. Whatever is wrong with the bird, the gov vet will claim it's H5N1 and the source of everything and all hell will break loose. I'm glad I'm a cynic at times like this. |
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| bodger |
I hear what you are saying Dougal but inspite of what you say I think that the article was balanced and merely notes a possible link between an outbreak of a strain of bird flu in Hungary and the outbreak in the BM facility.
It would appear that there is a link between the two sites via the lorries and it would obviously be foolish to ignore this. This possibility will no doubt be explored along with others and the truth may or may not come out in the wash. |
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| dougal |
Almost exactly an hour after I posted above, the BBC has run a story based on a DEFRA Press Release that begins
http://www.defra.gov.uk/news/latest/2007/animal-0208.htm Hmm. It'll be interesting to see, when the results are in, if it IS identical. I'd stiill be interested to discover how a 'poultry product' comes into contact with a turkey shed. And just one shed. I think its unworthy to suggest either that there would be a government coverup or any cull based on false information. Lets get firm evidence, and see what that shows. |
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| dougal |
And now at 20:43 BBC News24 has reported that H5N1 had been discovered in *four* of Mathews' sheds.
Not *one*. If anything, that strikes me as even stranger. One shed, or all sheds, might be anticipated. Four sheds IS strange. A fast moving story tonight! Wonder what's next? 
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| Cho-ku-ri |
What we should be asking was firstly why have we not banned imports of poultry from countries with bird flu? Secondly we should be asking (if we are not already aware) Why is it so economical to rear poultry and par process them abroad, to import them, finish the processing and be legaly alowed to market them as Britsh produce? | ||||||
| Nanny |
i'm with you on this one
but the BM has never been high on the list of environmental and health lists has he all that rubbish about bootiful turkeys from norfolk a load of old poop |
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| Bernie66 |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6346905.stm
Comforting, not. |
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| Bernie66 |
Mind you 10% down in sales of BM foodstuffs will hit hard. Shame
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| dpack |
well x 3
oops bernard plenty of unsold (but mostly harmless imho ) birds in the shops if this stuffs the industrial end of the poultry world ,good . |
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| Cho-ku-ri |
BM seems to date to be getting off lightly. Do you think he funds New Labour? | ||||||
| Bernie66 |
Clearly, and all the stuff he can't sell and the stores take off the shelves will be fed either to pigs or back to battery hens 
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| dpack |
they dont know how to stop their bio hazard masks misting up ,so why should i trust them in a complex situation like this ? |
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| Treacodactyl |
Although I'm still waiting for the infection route to be confirmed it does seem possible the bird flu came into this country via imported poultry, just like I thought several months back.
What worries me at the moment is if there is even the slightest chance infected meat is on sale I bet many people are chucking out their raw poultry. Then their bins bags will be opened by foxes and magpies which means the infected meat might come into contact with wild birds or other poultry. I know this sounds a bit far fetched but I often collect bones and meat dropped by vermin in our garden.  Also, before the outbreak in the four sheds virtually every expert was saying it was so unlikely to occur first in the intensive poultry industry.
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| Cho-ku-ri |
I agree, but can you imagine the public panic if the Government announced it was going to make street collections of unwanted poultry meat to be incinerated at a bio secure site. 
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| bodger |
It would seem that we should be keeping our poultry away from our wild birds and not the other way round.
Another man made problem. What next
A nice big cheap mass produced turkey steak anyone ? |
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| fenwoman |
no it won't since it is illegal to feed any meat or meat by products to poultry or swine. Why do people keep trotting out rubbish like this???? |
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| Bernie66 |
That was comedy maam |
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| bodger |
Interesting bit on Radio 4 yesterday even though it did state the obvious.
The government has gone to great lengths to say that poultry is safe to eat as long as its cooked well, but fails to mention that in order to cook it well people must first handle raw possibly infected meat.
Have a look at this as well. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6352753.stm |
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| fenwoman |
It was? I thought comedy was supposed to be funny  Since too many people still believe that chicken and livestock feed is made up from abbatoir sweepings, poultry manure, sawdust etc, I thought this might be such a person as believed this. I answered a post( different forum) which stated with authority that chicken food was made out of dead chickens, chicken poo etc, only a couple of weeks ago. The poster knew this was true as he had worked in a poultry feed manufacturers and saw what went into it.
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