| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| Stacey |
So, we're all getting the 'Don't feed your pigs........kitchen waste' visit round here. I had a very sweet girl tell me it was ok if I peeled my potatoes outside but if we did it in the kitchen that was ver ver bad *wag finger*We don't feed our pigs anything but sow and weaner pellets but I was wondering what the value of this excercise is unless they follow it up with a visit to check everyones troughs 
And did you know that the maximum sentence for feeding pigs kitchen waste is 2 years imprisonment? 
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| sean |
Re: So, we're all getting the 'Don't feed your pigs........
When you consider most people's diets that seems quite lenient. |
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| Dunk |
Seriously you can get fined now? I dont have pigs, but when we used to go on holiday we always put our kitchen waste in a pig bucket and then went to feed them, i'm sure they were fed properly too ... | ||||
| Treacodactyl |
Re: So, we're all getting the 'Don't feed your pigs........
I hope she said the potatoes had to be dug from your garden and peeled outside. If they came from a shop then it doesn't matter where they're peeled it's wag finger time; if my understanding is correct. |
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| Stacey |
Re: So, we're all getting the 'Don't feed your pigs........
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| Treacodactyl |
That's just it, I can see the reasons for the laws but they seem a bit too extreme when DEFRA officials don't know or understand the laws and many people just ignore them totally. For example, why should I not feed my hens cabbage leaves from a cabbage purchased from a greengrocers, in the very tiny chance they have been contaminated with meat products, when people feed canned dog food to their hens? | ||||
| Rob R |
But it could have come into contact with meat  And the authorities have no concept of scale- apply to put up a shed for half a dozen pigs & they'll automatically assume you are building a huge pig unit. They have no idea.
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| @Calli |
Mine go next week and we were told that the abbatoir routinely send random samples for testing, so although they don't check the troughs there is some form of checking further down the line. | ||||
| VSS |
They don't make the rules for people like us. Unfortunately we are supposed to abide by them all the same
www.viableselfsufficiency.co.uk |
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| sean |
Trouble is, while I've some sympathy for that: Unless you believe that we don't need regulation of food production, where would you put the cut off point? | ||||
| Rob R |
At our borders- stop the rubbish coming in that really causes so many problems would be a start... |
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| Mr O |
The really sad thing is that those that make the rules believe that the rules they make are protecting the welfare of us producers. When in reality it is the rules that are putting us out of business or at least forcing us to stop producing. The F&M argument will go on for years, but when rules are actually worse than a disease that can be vacinated against and have a more far reaching effect on animal keepers then there is something sadly wrong. I hate to say it but I would prefer F&M to Defra because at least I can get a vaccine for F&M but I havn't found one for DEFRA yet. 
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| Stacey |
Somewhere round the common sense mark would suit me 
Anyway - I'm off to Co Antrim for a couple of days. I'll bring you all back a stick of rock 
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| sean |
Have fun. | ||||
| NeathChris |
what makes me laugh is the ones who work for defra/ministry are the ones who flought the roles most. 
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| Tradbritfowlco |
Well we all know what i think! | ||||
| Cho-ku-ri |
Most of those working for Defra are failed farmers. | ||||
| Andy B |
Sorry to be a bit thick but, why cant you feed kitchen scraps to pigs? | ||||
| alison |
Andy, this is due to scraps may be contaminated with meat, which the pigs are not allowed. | ||||
| Andy B |
Well i can see it being a problem if you feed them whats left of a meal but when your preparing stuff you ususally keep the meat and veg seperate. But what could a pig catch off say the remains of a chicken curry? |
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| Cho-ku-ri |
F&M last time, was introduced by cheap imported meat fed to our army to save a £. Kitchen scraps were then fed to pigs.................
.........................If our own government introduces regulations to the meat industry, but side steps them by buying cheap sub U.K. standard imports to save cash what chance does our home meat industry have at succeeding. 
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| Andy B |
Youve lost me, were they army pigs! I can see that its unatural to feed a herbivore meat.( I think they used to feed processed sheep bits to cattle ) But pigs will eat anything and on a small local one or two pigs for private consumption scale i wouldnt have though it would be a problem! Seems to me Defra would be better off keeping an eye on the Bernard Mattews of this world. |
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| Cho-ku-ri |
No, a pig farmer next door to the army camp was feeding the scraps illegaly. (Post B.S.E. regulations). Why the army were suppling him I don't know. I suppose waste regulations will now restrict this. The infected meats will now go to landfills to be eaten by rats and seagulls. Wouldn't it be easier to ban imports of sub U.K. standard produce? 
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| bodger |
This is a point that I made on another thread and that is that BSE came out of a bag . | ||||
| Rob R |
An inspected pig farmer at that
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| VSS |
Touble is that Defra insist on applying the rules.
Take the EU regs for example - the french say "Oui" we'll do as you say, and then just carry on doing their own thing regardless. Perhaps it is time for a peasants revolt!!When the rules have got to the satge that they wont even let you use your own land to rear your own livestock to feed your own family, something is wrong with the whole system. www.viableselfsufficiency.co.uk |
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| Tradbritfowlco |
ear ear!  so maybe we should take a min to sign the petition...only 40 sigs so far, i'm sure theres many more peeps out there on our side!
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| caths |
the time for the peasants to revolt is well overdue - just trying to get my head round the rules for getting the skins back off my OWN animals for sending for curing - have to apply for registration and inspection as "an intermediate plant to handle by-prodcts" - just to put salt on the hides and pack them up for posting. Must provide plan, describe the structure, define my hygiene routine, attach my HACCP plan, describe the collection and waste disposal arrangements blah blah blah blah - wonder if I could just say "as per bernard matthews" - after all, he doesn't seem to have any bother when he flouts the rules - earns quite a few hundred thousand out of it instead!!
have already signed the petition TBF but think something slightly more radical is required!
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| VSS |
Don't know what the "rules" say, but could you home slaughter, (if you don't sell your meat or pass it to a third party,), then you wouldn't have any hassle getting the skins.
www.viableselfsufficiency.co.uk |
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| Rob R |
No, you'd just have the hassle of getting rid of the waste- according to the 'rules', even feeding bones to dog's isn't strictly legal now
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| caths |
don't worry I already thought of that one - we're only going down this route cos the curing company can't take your skins anymore unless it gets the paperwork with your intermediate plant number on it!!! 
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| RichardW |
Your local dead stock collector should be able to sort you out. Ours takes our butchers waste & our home kill waste (not at same time as we have to sepperate the processes). Justme |
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| Tradbritfowlco |
aye, but what? if i had loads signatures and backing i could think about summat more radical....  
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| VSS |
I've signed it too.
It is difficult to know what to do - perhaps it will come down to making a stand about it. We have a ridiculous situation where, given that we home kill, produce all our dairy stuff, etc that we cannot legally have anyone to stay here and feed them. We cant even give anyone a cup of tea. I say that is just ludicrous - i cant have my parents for Christmas without buying grub from elesewhere. I am not trying to decieve anyone, of pass something off as something it isn't. Where is the harm in it? www.viableselfsufficiency.co.uk |
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| Rob R |
The rules have been made to protect the corporations 
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| Treacodactyl |
I can understand many of the rules but with home slaughter I don't understand why you can't have some form of simple opt-out. So, if you wish to home slaughter a sheep and people wish to eat it just get them to sign something saying they understand the risks. |
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| Rob R |
That is a good idea- the whole system is supposed to 'protect' public health, but all it really does is to erode choice, personal responsibility & civil liberty. | ||||
| Stacey |
You know what - it all horribly reminds me of working in mental health. There are people paid to just have 'ideas' - they don't have to bear any resemblance to actual service delivery - just as many ideas as they can come up with. The most soul destroying excercise was when we had to ask service users what they wanted from the service and ,when they told us what they wanted, we had to inform them that we couldn't actually give them that due to whatever bureaucracy was in action that week. A totally pointless excercise. I was constantly trying to tell people in offices that I wasn't actually, humanly able to implement their 'radical new idea' in practice. I get the idea that DEFRA is actually based in 'think tank' bureaucracy and bears no resemblance to reality at the best of times. |
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| VSS |
Its a good idea but as i understand it disclaimers (which is effectivley) have no legal status. Even if you said you understood the risks, if there was a problem and someone sued you, you wouldn't have a leg to stand on becaus you had broken the rules. The point is though that the rules are geared towards public protection which is all well and good, but i don't want to protext the public, merely to feed my family. www.viableselfsufficiency.co.uk |
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| caths |
wasn't having a go at you TBF - just the b***** system! |
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| fenwoman |
That constitutes a written contract so I expect mine in the post lol
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