| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| gom |
Software rip-off - how to avoid it!For years it has amazed me how Microsoft has managed to pull off the biggest scam in history, and I have really resented having to pay for MS Office in particular .
So now I don't, I came across Open Office two years ago and have been using it since without any problems - it is compatible with MS Orifice. It's free, it kicks MS Office's ar*e and it's here: http://www.openoffice.org/ (I have no connection to Open Office, but I do have big problems with getting ripped off by you know who and I am sure some of you will feel the same way). |
||||||
| vegplot |
Re: Software rip-off - how to avoid it!Sounds like a bit of a troll. |
||||||
| oldish chris |
Re: Software rip-off - how to avoid it!
That's a bit unfair. Its only gom's 4th posting. he couldn't have realised that certain subjects arouse pages of agitated comments. He could of course save even more money by not paying for that third rate crock of bloated dung called Windoze giving loads of dosh to the evil monopoly Micro$oft run by some of the most unethical capitolists ever. Now thats trolling 
|
||||||
| Chez |
Personally I feel that everyone who uses windows should be put up against the wall and shot with green gunk until they promise to convert to Ubuntu, installed via command line, because Bill Gates is a hidden Darth Vader who wants to take over the world 
Welcome, gom  . Lots of Open Office users here, and Ubuntu users, too!
|
||||||
| JB |
To give MS it's due I think that most of office is pretty good, it's their OS and servers which are appalling. OTOH most people don't need anything from Word that hasn't been in every version since Word 6 and most people could quite happily make do with even a fraction of the functionality of OpenOffice. | ||||||
| Brownbear |
Which is precisely why normal people don't use it. We haven't time to spend years learning how to weave our own hard drives, we want something that says, 'Press Button A'. Ubuntu sometimes seems to be Linux and vice versa, and there are dozens of sub-versions as little groups of fundamentalist techies break away and form their own release sects after a trivial disagreement with some other techies about what integer to alternate with which command or whatever. |
||||||
| JB |
I suspect Chez was being sarcastic and impying they should be made to suffer. Linux does not require people to 'weave their own hard drives'. The current install process for most flavours of linux is; 1 - insert CD 2 - Err, that's it! I would also have to say that with the most recent versions of Linux the install has usually been easier than installing Windows. The main (only?) reason most people use windows is because it was on the box when they got it. |
||||||
| Brownbear |
And could I still use programmes like Photoshop, MS Office (I prefer OpenOffice but other people don't and send me documents in it) and so on? |
||||||
| vegplot |
@JB
I would disagree with that. I've had more problems getting Unbuntu installed than with any other operating system. |
||||||
| Chez |
I'm sorry, I didn't preface my post with a 'Troll Warning'
|
||||||
| vegplot |
Trollop. (in the nicest possible way)) |
||||||
| Chez |
|
||||||
| vegplot |
If you want to harp on about software rip-offs you could do worse than defocusing on a single vendor and look at the often huge pricing differentials of software bought in the US and over here. | ||||||
| JB |
Not out of the box, and if that is you reason for having a computer then yes you should install windows. But that is a completely different argument from ...
which seems to based more on a very old fashioned view of early versions of linux. Of course most people want little more from a computer other than the ability to run word / outlook / ie / openoffice / evolution / firefox. If that is all they want then windows offers no advantage whatsoever over linux. |
||||||
| Chez |
Invalid argument, Mr Bear - OpenOffice both reads MS documents and allows you to save in MS format! 
|
||||||
| Brownbear |
Hm. I saved a trifold leaflet from openoffice to word the other day and it chopped all the columns up into pages, changed all the formatting and erased the images. |
||||||
| vegplot |
Not Office 2007 files it doesn't. |
||||||
| JB |
Main problem I find with moving documents between open office and ms office are font differences (although I've also found moving between the same apps on different machines a pain if someone has used an unusual font) that will throw alignment and formatting out. Images can be a pain on both systems as they never seem to stay where you want them as soon as you change layout (they both seem to get confused about whether images are attached to pages or text, the former allows text to separate from images, the latter allows images to move which then can have them disappear of page bottoms or onto following pages etc.) Not really an open office or MS office problem. |
||||||
| jema |
There are people who will tell you Ubuntu just installs and works wonderfully, there are people who will tell you the same thing about Vista. It may be true for a large minority, but you need to be doing a lot better than that for an operating system to be regarded as effective for users.
I would not wish Ubuntu on any non techy. When I can do the following with a fresh install I might consider it. 1) My scanner starts working. 2) My Twin monitor setup does not need geekyness to set up. 3) Sound works solidly. 4) I can install something from the net without using chmod a+x from the command line! |
||||||
| Gervase |
[small but elegantly-attired troll pokes head over parapet...]
I like the iWork suite of apps from Apple - Pages is a particularly elegant word processor that opens and saves in virtually all known formats. It's free with new Macs, and about £50 if you want to buy it as a bolt-on. And even an anti-nerd like me can use it with confidence. Perhaps the nicest feature is the 'full screen' button, which gives you a completely blank screen with just your words on it. No buttons, toolbars, dialogue boxes, menus; just what you're writing. Bit like a piece of paper, really. Geeks would probably hate it. [/troll slinks away to play with shiny things] |
||||||
| Brownbear |
If that instruction came up in the instructions for a new computer, I'd soil my strides in techterror. |
||||||
| JB |
When I can do the following with a fresh vista install I might consider it. 1) My network starts working. 3) Sound works at all. 4) I can install something from the net without running into security issues. never tried it with a twin monitor so I'll add 5) it boots without putting itself into 640 x 480 and putting the login prompt off screen. Perhaps we should just agree to agree that all computers and software are carp 
|
||||||
| vegplot |
What ever happened to Ami Pro (before Lotus got their grubby hand on it and ruined what I consider to be the best word processor ever produced)? | ||||||
| gom |
Thanks for the troll comment, much appreciated and a lovely welcome.
I happened across this forum recently and was pleased to find that it contains some really good info, much of which is helpful to me and my small enterprise. I posted the original message because I thought it might be of help to others, I had no idea that it was a contentious issue here, the latest postings did not reflect this and I haven't trawled back through the pages to check for more, why would I? I am grateful to Open Office for what they do, and I thought others might be too - nothing more to it. |
||||||
| jema |
AmiPro3 was Lotus and I still think that that is the best word processor I have used.
It has label printing and mail merge that operated easily and was generally instinctive and easy to use. It had a spell checker as well. I really struggle to fathom what any word processor since then has added that is relevant to 99.5% of users? |
||||||
| Effie |
The Guardian opens a large can of worms by asking readers about non techie linux installation
They only have 173 comments thus far
|
||||||
| Brownbear |
I'm sure nothing was meant by the troll remark, perhaps someone thought it was a windup. Among the many subdivisions on Downsizer, there is a divide between the weedy, spotty, nerdy, speccy, dungeons-and-dragons-type techies (like the one who recently did a corking job of sorting out my web shop) on the one hand; and upright, sturdy, bluff, give-me-a-pen-and-paper-any-day-Carruthers, don't-know-what-the-world's-coming-to types (old farts) like my self. |
||||||
| vegplot |
You're right, Lotus Ami Pro was the edition that spoiled it for me when they integrated it into their suite. It had limitations but got full marks for intuitiveness. Word 2007 is a brilliant piece of software if you have the hardware to run it. |
||||||
| Chez |
Quite - there are a hard core of very technical people here, who enjoy winding each other up - welcome, and jump right in! What are your areas of interest, gom? ETA - I must have been lucky swapping between OpenOffice and MS - I've not had any issues. |
||||||
| yummersetter |
I loved AmiPro too, and still use WordPro in preference to Microsoft Word. That's just on my computer to use with incoming documents. Do any writing programmes have an easy uppercase/lowercase changing thingie, in the way that the early ones did? I'm always rattling through whole sentences with the cAPSLOCK on, and I haven't discovered any easy way of changing the case without deleting and rewriting |
||||||
| jema |
Indeed, I miss that one as well, but hey we have to find space for insanely complex and unused menu options somewhere, and so the boring little ones like that just have to go. | ||||||
| gom |
Ok, got it, newbie mistake. GOM = Grumpy Old Man Interests = Building resilience (buzz word alert) into my life in the face of a crumbling civilization. This translates into managing a small neglected woodland, bringing it and about the same amount of equally neglected pasture back to life. |
||||||
| Chez |
Wonderful, come and sit down here in Misanthropes Corner and have some cake! Quite a few of us here are doing the same sort of thing I think ... although we aren't overt in talking about it a lot of the time. |
||||||
| Treacodactyl |
Same here, I use Ubuntu, Open Office and I'm bringing a few acres of neglected woodland back into use. |
||||||
| jema |
As if to confirm my point about Ubuntu geekyness... I have Firefox3.5 installed, Ubuntu just went and upgraded Firefox3 and reset that to be the default browser, I need to play about with symbolic links to fix it, I then thought lets stop this happening again by removing Firefox3 and that decided to remove my links so firefox3.5 would once again no longer start.
I know you can get similar issues in windows, but there is a much bigger community trying to resolve things. Given each brand of Linux has its own quirks the problems you get leave you a lot more isolated, and the solutions always seem to me to be a lot more geeky. |
||||||
| gz |
I am on Ubuntu- and I like the fact that it ASKS if I would like each update...so I can choose to accept or ignore.
On other son's computer, which is on windows, it goes ahead- tough!!! 
|
||||||
| JB |
To be fair that's a configuration option on windows |
||||||
| JB |
Really? There may be a much bigger community using windows but is there really a much bigger community trying to fix things? |
||||||
| vegplot |
I was responsible for introducing AmiPro into Duracell years ago. I chose it over MS Word. It was the better product at the time but it got worse as Word got better. |
||||||
| jema |
I am giving the benefit of the doubt here, surely there must be 500x the users on XP than there are any particular Linux version! and so one would help there would be more help available even if the numbers trying to help people fix problems is massively out of proportion. |
||||||
| marigold |
How long ago? One of my real-life friends started her career at Duracell in the early 80s... |
||||||
| vegplot |
I started there in 1986 and left in 1995, this was at Duracell European Technical Centre in Crawley. |
||||||
| marigold |
After my friend's time then - I met her at Amex in 1985 (heavens - aren't we ancient?! )
|
||||||
| vegplot |
I like to think of myself as young, sprightly and in need of a reality check. | ||||||
| marigold |
Next time you are in Cambridge...
|
||||||
| oldish chris |
Wonderful thing about Linux is not only is it free, but there is an enormous amount of choice. I use "Abiword" word processor and "Gnumeric" spreadsheet. I did once try to manage my money using GnuCash, far too sophisticated for me, but if you really need to analyse your expenditure (using double entry book keeping), its brill!
Since I discovered that the hoi polloi are using Ubuntu, I've been looking for an alternative. Mandriva doesn't want to connect to the internet using my wifi, with Mint the download was corrupted, I'll try again at the end of the year. |
||||||
| Chez |
It made my head explode I'm afraid. I haven't been able to find a sensible linux-based equivalent to MS Money that is non-specialist enough for me to use easily. That's the one thing that I keep the dual-boot to XP for. |
||||||
| Hairyloon |
Don't they claim that Linux has about 5% of the market share now? Which would mean that Windows has 20x the users. OK, so Linux users are spread across many flavours, but are not the principal problems the same whatever flavour? I'd like to be able to say that the Linux community are more friendly and forthcoming with their help, but I've met belligerent unhelpfulness from both sides of the fence, and I'm sad to say some of the Linux nerds were downright hostile. |
||||||
| Chez |
That's because you are a Normal Person and therefore very scary .
I suspect that there are nobby proponents of every operating system ... and as you say, the same problems sweep across the board. My printer still doesn't work under Ubuntu - I am sure that there is a fix out there, it's just I haven't had the time or head-space to look for it properly. But I am prepared to live with that (I save as a pdf and then switch in to XP to print) because the rest of the OS makes up for it. |
||||||
| Hairyloon |
It has been a long time since anyone called me "normal". But I don't think that was the problem, I hadn't done enough to show up as normal: I was having trouble with something and I found a thread which seemed to be the exact same problem and I asked for a point of clarification. They practically bit my head off for hijacking the thread. Which I thought particularly odd since the chap who'd initiated the thread was sorted. 
|
||||||
| vegplot |
That's probably because they're nerds with no social skills rather than just Linux evangelists. We have one customer who is out and out Linux and very anti MS. I haven't the heart to tell him his mail is handled by a Windows server. Although I suspect he knows as it would take much effort to find out. |