| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| wellington womble |
SugarThis might be better in chat - it's going to start as a bit of a rant anyway!Why must manufactuers put so much sugar in things? I loathe oversugared readymade cakes and things, and never buy them anymore, but jam is always far too sweet, and loads of savoury things have added sugar. As I make more and more things myself, I'm reducing the sugar in recipes, but so many of them still oversweeten things. The breadmaker said to put sugar in the bread, but I never do (on the advice of the flour producer), and the bread is fine. I halved the sugar in my jams, and they are much nicer and set fine, I reduce sugar in lemon curd, and improved the flavour no end. Yesterday I made Nigella's Chocolate, chilli and cinnamon pudding, and it was so overwhelmingly sweet, I couldn't eat it - you couldn't taste anything in it except sugar and chocolate. And mass produced chocolate is vile - full of sugar and vegatable fat. Proper chocolate is much less sweet, and nicer as far as I'm concerned. My guests all had two helpings of pud, so maybe I just don't have a sweet tooth! Ok, rant over - what do you reduce the sugar in and by how much - or is it just me scrawling all over my recipe books?! What really needs the sugar and have you had any disasters with messing about with the quantites in recipes? |
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| Deedee |
I agree there is way too much sugar in stuff.I made icecream yesterday and the boys all refused to eat it even though it was lovely they said it wasn't sweet enough and after they sprinkled loads of sugar on it then they ate it!! Kinda defeating the object  I am in the process of totally re-educating their tastebuds (wether they like it or not!) I was horrified to see just how bad their diets have become with all the sugar secreted into stuff where you don't expect it to be..I would be interested how little sugar I can get away with in 'breadmaker jam' as the boys eat that
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| jema |
I am pleased to say we are a "no puddings" household, and oddly enough a teenage children with no dental fillings household either, and that is despite a couple of total pains of children when it comes to habitually cleaning their teeth 
jema |
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| tahir |
My wife would leave me if I said we were going to be a no puddngs household | ||||||||||||
| Treacodactyl |
Totally agree about too much sugar in things. I stopped taking sugar in my drinks a couple of years ago, but I've not really had a sweet tooth.
We make most of our own jam now and I tend to only use 30-40% sugar at the most. No problems with setting either and as there's room in the fridge I put it in there in case their is too little sugar to keep it for several months. Still room to use a little less I think. |
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| Bugs |
I wouldn't tend to reduce the amount too much in cakes because I think it's a pretty important part of the chemistry...bics seem less crucial but still wouldn't want to mess around too much.
I make an oat biscuit every now and again which I find can take a good deal more oats and fruit than the recipe claims, but don't write it down. It makes a very nice substantial biscuit. I believe apple juice can make a good substitute for sugar in many things, even in baking, so it might be worth looking out for things like that. Of course it's still sugar but I suppose it's less refined and I vaguely recall being told it tastes sweeter (or you get more of the taste, or something) so you do wind up with less sugar. I would definitley look for recipes though, I wouldn't like to go round sticking apple juice randomly in to recipes. |
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| culpepper |
yes we dont have puddings either and have 2 teens with no fillings(lucky things)
Im making bread this week with my new breadmaker and was amazed to find 3 teaspoons of sugar and 2 teaspoons of salt in the recipe (actually it says 3 tablespoons of sugar but that has to be a typo. Im using 1 tsp sugar,1tsp salt and it tastes fine. My OH is the sugarholic in our family. He's also the most cavity afflicted AND the dentist phobic. You can use honey instead of sugar. We have done this in Apple or Rhubarb crumble with success. |
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| wellington womble |
Any chance of the oat biscuits recipe? We're not a pudding household at all (unless we have company) as we have no kids, but I find myself working in Bethnal Green for the next month or so (dying to get it over with!). I will be in for a long day and need snacks, which is what prompted it, as I need to do some baking to have something decent to eat while I'm out. I get hungrier out than when I'm at home too - annoying as there is less opporuntity to eat good food! | ||||||||||||
| alison |
I think the sugar in the bread machine recipe is food for the yeast. | ||||||||||||
| Bugs |
And I think you'll find that any sane judge in the land would give her house, children and your entire CD collection 
Wellington W, certainly, it's dead easy too. I've got another one from OH's ma which I've yet to try out but which comes highly recommended. In fact, I have an idea for a new thread which I think I'll post the recipe on...watch out on a forum near you soon (do your own gravelly voiceover for that bit). Alison...I know I've asked you before about the yeast, it occurs to me that the sachets have all sorts of additions, which might be why you can get away without the sugar. I'm inclined to think that's a bad thing so I'll have another experiment with the DovesFarm packet. |
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| alison |
I use the Doves farm, instant yeast, but not in an individual serving packet. I measure it out from it. | ||||||||||||
| culpepper |
yes it is but I make bread dough for pizza and use 1tp which is plenty. Yesterday I made a 2lb loaf in the machine and added 1 heaped tsp of sugar instead of 3 and it rose just the same. I use the Allinsons yeast in the little orange tin which works fine. Also the amount of salt quoted in the recipe is far too much as it is just to take the sweetness away from the loaf so I reduce that too. |
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| alison |
I only use a teaspoon of sugar for mine too | ||||||||||||
| Tristan |
In school H.E. lessons my B-I-L forgot to put any sugar at all into pineapple upsidedown cake and about three others, too embarassed to tell the teacher he kept quiet, only to be told they were the best in the class! Having tried the pineapple one I couldn't tell there was no sugar in it!
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| Mrs Fiddlesticks |
There used to be a apple and pear spread you could buy in wholefood shops that I seemed to remember you could use instead of sugar in recipes. Someone will tell if it still exsists. I think it used to be mentioned in wholefood recipe books or vegan ones- the sort of book that encourage carob dependancy!
We do like puds, but don't have them everyday. I don't want the kids to expect there to be one and avoid eating all the main in the hope of something better. Often its a piece of homemade cake or a visit to the fruit bowl. But I do like making a homemade crumble or ice-cream so I couldn't not make something at least once a week. |
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| alison |
No pud offered in our house if you don't eat yoour dinner. | ||||||||||||
| wellington womble |
So the bread machine book says, but the flour people said there was enough sugar in the flour, and I've never had a problem with the bread (except when I forgot to put the paddle in properly!  ) Apparently they're manufactured for the americans who like cakey bread!
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| Tristan |
Interesting point, I was always taught that sugar was only required for activating dried yeast, but the fast acting type sold for breadmakers shouldn't need it. You could always use milk in a recipe to provide lactose rather than sucrose, I'll experiment at the weekend
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| Mrs Fiddlesticks |
doesn't vitamin C do something to the yeast as well? We use to sell ascorbic acid powder ( same thing) in Boots to home breadmakers years ago! | ||||||||||||
| bagpuss |
Can I aks why a couple of teaspoons of sugar in a bread recipe is such a problem on the grand scale of things | ||||||||||||
| wellington womble |
Oh - it's not (sorry if anyone thought I was getting at them!) It's just that in my taste (which is probably warped anyway!) its detrimental to the bread, and it was an example of unecessary added sugar that I was conned into thinking that I needed. It's mostly because I actually dislike oversweet things that I'm trying to reduce them. Nigella's cake was horrible because it was so oversweetened it masked any flavour it might have had and spoilt it worse than too much salt would. I reckon with half the sugar it would have been really nice. I expect their are health benefits, too, but that wasn't what I was bothered about. Apologies for ranting at you all! |
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| bagpuss |
could I aksed which of nigellas cakes you thought had too much sugar as I have made quite a few so I would be intrigued to know which one | ||||||||||||
| Gervase |
Blimey, I didn't realise people put sugar into home-made bread! It always seems to rise for me with no sugar at all.
(Not that I can be holier than thou, as someone who likes Nato-standard char; two spoonfuls in a mug of brick-red tea) |
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| jema |
Yuk to suger in tea. I'll do that to coffee, I tried to be virtuous and persisted in no suger in coffee for months to see if I could acquire the taste. But it hnever happened. jema |
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| wellington womble |
chilli, chocolate and cinnamon pudding, before anyone asks, I don't know whether the chilli was nice in it. All I could taste was sugar. Interesting technique though - you make a batter, sprinlkle sugar on it, and then pour boiling water on the top, and bake (never done that before) I'll try again with less sugar on the top, and see how it goes. I know I don't have a sweet tooth, but this was stick to your teeth job. maybe it's just me - it wouldn't be the first time!
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| Róisín |
I come from a household where we used to put sugar in everything, albeit in moderation; the boyf comes from one that has a horror of sugar and wouldn't even have it in the house. (Holidays were hard, for me ) I think something in between is right. After all, it is just another foodstuff, not grains of evil from the devil. (Depending on your taste!)
The bread recipe I use, which is always yummy to me, has just one teaspoon for every two pound loaves, which I don't think is excessive. I'd use more in a cup of tea to be honest. As far as cake making goes, I don't think I would reduce the sugar content unless I was planning on eating cakes every day. As long as you keep them to a special occasion then you're not taking in too much. I have another scrummy oat biscuit recipe! Will post once I find out which forum to post it in 
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| bagpuss |
That should go here http://forum.downsizer.net/viewforum.php?f=1 which hopefully will be the link to the recipes, preserving and homebrewing forum more recipes are always welcome |
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| tawny owl |
Exactly, so you may find the bread doesn't rise. In addition, the yeast should use up the sugar, so you won't actually be eating sugar. Having said that, I've seen lots of postings were people have reduced both salt and sugar by 1/3 to 1/2 without problems. It does seem to depend on the brand of breadmaker, so I guess it's just a matter of trial and error. Also, it's perfectly possible to use fresh milk rather than powdered milk and water. |
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| cab |
Also depends on the flour and the yeast you use. I find that for most white flours, a dried yeast wants a bit of sugar. When you use a malted grain flour, the yeast will often find enough sugar without having any added. Of course if it's a bread machine it's often worth adding a little sugar because you don't have the option of leaving it to rise a bit longer if it doesn't look ready to go in yet; the sugar is an insurance policy. | ||||||||||||
| tawny owl |
I've seen that one too, but for the life of me can't remember the name. For anyone wanting a low sugar jam, look out for a compote rather than a preserve or jam - Bonne Maman do at least two, a rhubarb and an apricot. It's very runny - it can actually be poured onto the bread - but it is absolutely gorgeous and has only 10% sugar, unlike the usual 35% you get even in low-sugar jams (which often have yucky artificial sweeteners in anyway)
Well, I think that's the point, isn't it? On its own, it would be fine, but it's not on its own, and worse still, most of the sugar we ingest is hidden. If you eat a processed cereal in the morning, you'll probably be taking in about 2 teaspoons of sugar per bowl (without adding any yourself!) then if you have 2 teaspoons in the bread (obviously you won't be eating an entire loaf), and then add baked beans (another 2 teaspoons), your apparently healthy breakfast and lunch has probably landed you 4.5 tsps of sugar. Considering the healthy amount of sugar for an adult is 10 tsp/day for a woman and 14 for a man, that's racking it up pretty quickly. Add a single can of Coke (7 tsps!!), and you've just gone over your daily allowance before you've even had dinner, or a biscuit with your tea. It's even worse for children's food - most foods aimed at children, even if apparently healthy (eg yogurts) are horrendously high in sugar. The sugar is often disguised as glucose, lactose, fructose, maltose, invert sugar, corn syrup etc. and even though some of these are marginally better than others, they are still all sugar. The Food Agency reckons sugar for children in particular is addictive, and it takes at least a month for the tastebuds to get used to lower salt and sugar. We are genetically programmed to prefer sweet things, because they're generally safe to eat, so even babies will smile if given honey, but make a face if given lemon, thus children will always go for the sweetest thing available. That can of Coke, BTW, will send a young child over their RDA on its own, and yet people think nothing of giving them glass after glass of fizzy drink. |
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| bagpuss |
I guess my point there was anyone who is concerned enough about their diet to be regularly making their own bread and thinking about whether putting sugar in it is the right thing to do probably isn't consuming large quanities of processed food with no regard for their sugar content Thinking about our diet and being aware of what goes into processed foods if you do consume them is a good thing and more people should do it but if you are so worried about the amount of sugar you consume you are debating whether a tsp or so of sugar in a bread recipe is a good idea I personally think you are taking it too far. A balanced diet is important which not only means eating lots of fruit and veg and oily fish etc but also eating fat and sugar in their more processed forms on occassion |
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| Bugs |
I don't generally put sugar in bread, nor milk/milk powder, as I find that white flour is pretty sweet anyway and with the activated yeast and a longish programme perhaps started with warmish water, I get a good rise without sugar. I think I can taste the sugar when I do use it.
I put honey or malt extract in to wholemeal bread, because I find that without it it tends to be heavier, although this is quite sweet anyway. |
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| cab |
The bread machine you (and I) have is better at bread that doesn't have sugar in it than the other models I've had. Takes longer to bake, so I guess that isn't surprising. |
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| dougal |
My understanding was that breadmaking machines were about speed, and needed a consistant recipe to produce consistant results from the automated cycle.
Allowing the yeast to generate CO2 quickly (preferentially) from the added sugar would guarantee a 'rise' despite the vagaries of flour, which may hardly break down at all. The sucrose sugar (glucose + fructose) decomposition, as well as CO2, gives ethanol (booze) which is then boiled off during baking. I have supposed that the products of yeast digestion of the more complex sugars in the flour (maltose, amylose?) would produce compounds which, on cooking, actually produce a depth of varied flavour, rather than simple congealed starch. Milk introduces galactose... |
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| cab |
Bread yeasts, although they're the same species as wine and beer yeasts, don't go entirely anaerobic very quickly; they produce less alcohol than you might expect, for the amount of gas they kick out. Try using a wine yeast for making bread and a bread yeast for wine. It's worth thinking about the ecology of Saccharomyces cerevisiae, our common yeast. Wild yeast lives most productively on fruits; the blook on grapes and plums, the yeast that makes elderberries ferment quickly, that's the stuff. It is well adapted at turning fructose, glucose and sucrose into small amounts of alcohol, and cometabolising other compounds in the fruit to produce other aromatics that attract animals to eat the fruit. That's the basis of symbiosis between the yeast and the plants. It isn't well adapted to degrading polysaccharides; the fruit itself secretes pectinases that soften the fruit sufficiently to allow the yeast to take over if the fruit isn't eaten before it falls from the plant. Yeast doesn't degrade starch very well (little of that in fruit), it struggles even more with pectin (hence starch and pectin hazes in home brew). So it really is relying on free sugar to get it going. Now there's ALWAYS some free sugar, especially in malted grain flour of course. But the quality of the rise you get depends not only on free sugar; a good gluten content is needed, and if you've got too many whole or chaffy grains you'll end up cutting down on rising by breaking up the gluten chains. Milk does indeed introduce other sugars (lactose etc.), and vitamin c does help in keeping a good rise; off the top of my head I can't tell you why, I need to ponder that one. |
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| Jonnyboy |
Bread making machines certainly take longer to prove wholemeal bread, but it's still a lot quicker than the time honoured method.
IIRC they don't 'knock back' either, but they use external heat in the proving equation as well. |
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| Bugs |
More convenience than speed. We cook a lot, daily, I can, have and do make bread, but I find it a lot of fuss (messy hands, washing up, finding a warm place in our sparsely heated house without an airing cupboard). Some machines sell themselves on a 50 minute loaf but they are generally not thought to be great - we mostly use the normal white bread setting, 4 hours, put on when I get in from work; the pizza setting, 45 minutes; and the dough setting for sweet stuff and baguettes/rolls at the weekend. When I do have to use the quick setting (just under 2 hours for a white loaf) it is definitely denser without the sugar. |
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| cab |
Bugs, why do you make bread in the evenings rather than letting it go on the timer setting overnight? | ||||||||||||
| dougal |
My point was that the machines are trying to simplify the process, in order to automate it (no intermediate bowl-washing; mix, rise and bake in the same one). And to get that to work, acceptably, in a 'conveniently' short time, they "cheat" wherever possible! (Sugar, milk powder...) No blame attached, but the process doesn't seem to produce results comparable to "manual" bread - which is why I don't have one, and I'm going by the results that others have (proudly) presented me with... (that might sound like I'm angling for an invite to tea!  )
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| wellington womble |
That was actually my point - you get better bread without sugar! It's much more like handmade, and easily comparable to the bakers (without having to go and fetch it!) Apparently becuase breadmakers are american, and americans like their bread a bit cakey. We like it light and fluffy, which you get with less sugar (providing your flour is up to it) I prefer bread without sugar, because it makes better textured bread, and am secretly reducing sugar in cakes because I don't have a sweet tooth. Health benefits are only a serendipitous side effect! |
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| Bugs |
Bedroom door doesn't close properly...bedroom is two steps away from kitchen...kitchen door doesn't close properly either...would definitely get woken up by the whirring and beeping 
Dougal I would happily swap you a breadmaker loaf for a couple of slices of your sourdough - if there's an SE meet up we both make it to, I promise I will bring along some of my best efforts for you to try
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| dougal |
Its this diversity that interests me. One hears of bakers using specific ("ripe") fruits in their sourdough starters - to catch specific strains of yeast. So as to produce particular "side reactions", and a more complex, satisfying flavour in the bread.
My point was that the added (sucrose) sugar provided a dependable source of plenty CO2 for the compromised conditions inside an automated breadmaker. I tend to add things like porridge oats and pumpkin seeds after kneading and bulk fermentation, and to try to do it 'lightly', a bit like folding in a soufflé. |
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| cab |
I can see that working. There's also an old Chinese bread that used fermenting crab apples for a source of sourdough.
It is. That's why often malted four can be a good one that doesn't need sugar in it... But as there are more bits in it, you're often as well adding some sugar for even more kick.
Which is fine, as yeast has a maltase enzyme to split the maltose to a useable product.
Yeah, more or less that's why it's added. Remember as well that most bread machine baking is done with dried yeast that hasn't been activated; you're starting off with a lagging strain, so you need a good set of conditions (lots of free carbob helps) to get it going. Basic microbiology, the yeast wants the sugar to get its metabolism off the ground in a hurry, and in bread machine baking that can make a difference.
Bread machines, many of them at least, also add such ingredients in later. Handy, that. |
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| ButteryHOLsomeness |
possibly but not always, my favourite bread machine recipe doesn't have any sugar in it at all and it rises very well if you use non bread machine yeast you have to feed it with warm water and sugar but the stuff for the bread machine works a little different as far as i know |
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| ButteryHOLsomeness |
i'm not sure of the science behind it but vitamin c gives you a better rise for the loaf personally though, i find most bread machine bread like a brick no matter what leavening agents are used so i only use the dough function and then bake it myself (actually faster anyway) i often make rolls vs bread shaped stuff anyway... but i digress
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| ButteryHOLsomeness |
actually there most definately ARE health benefits (other than just dental) for eating less sugar sugar actually causes an allergic reaction in most people that... wait for it... Makes you crave more sugar  
refined sugar also lowers your immune system... i'm a self confessed sugar addict, i've got such a horrible sweet tooth but i can say that once i've been off the most obvious stuff for a week or so (after i've suffered through horrible withdrawl, every bit as bad as caffeine withdrawl) i tend to lose my cravings for most of anyway. eat lower gi foods and the craving goes away too... obviously not a problem for you ww (you lucky girl!) but for others you'll find it helps |
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| bagpuss |
I wasn't questioning that a diet with less refined sugar in it was better for you as there is large quanities of research which support this but as I pointed out earlier if you are making the effort to make your own bread even using a bread machine you are likely to be more considerate of your diet anyway and in those circumstances there is probably no need to worry about a couple of tsps in a loaf of bread I would be intrigued to see more information about your other claims though |
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| ButteryHOLsomeness |
actually i was replying to ww's post but in answer to yours i put in the search string in google 'sugar causes allergic reaction crave sugar' and found a whole slew of things though this particular page is quite to the point though perhaps not very technically worded http://www.nancyappleton.com/pages/sugquot.html this page whilst not written by a doctor goes into some of the scientific details concerning sugar and it's effects on immune systems http://www.wholefamilyhealth.com/articles_generalhealth_sugarsholdonhealth.htm i couldn't give you the particulars of where i first heard about both of these, they've been in the back of my mind for years. americans tend to know quite a lot about various basic health issues (even if they fail to follow them!) simply because, i believe, they have to at least try to take care of themselves as healthcare is exorbitant in the states. you can't blink without having health information thrown at you from all angles... i'm a sponge so i soak it all up... now, if they'd just stop contradicting themselves every couple of years, it's getting really messy in my brain
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| dougal |
Getting "more going on" has to be good for creating more, and more interesting flavours. Which would be why using a mixture of different flours, even in small quantities, can 'bring out' flavour. And diverse strains of yeast. Whereas plain yeast acting largely on added sucrose, whose alcohol and CO2 are flavourless and largely lost, can't be releasing much flavour from the flour. (Flour on its own, or as a paste, or cooked on its own without browning (even as an unleavened paste) doesn't taste good, or of much.) Yes, americans (especially) love the taste of sucrose, so the residual presence of some would appeal to them. But for 'interesting' and 'characterful' flavour in bread, one has to involve and activate the chemistry of more complex carbohydrates. I find that "Malted" and "Granary" flours (even though they have only a small malt content) do give a characteristic (strong) "malt" flavour. Initially, I cut back on the quantity of Granary, and only a tiny amount did produce an improved flavour. However, having discovered that Rye would provide the Amylase (without the malt's own flavour) I've switched to that - 2 dessert spoonfuls added to 400gm of wheat flours (plus whatever is in the pre-ferment) makes a nice difference. Peter Reinhart (american breadmaking guru) asserts that well-worked amylase (plus oven steam) makes for a dramatically flavoursome crust. I can't prove it scientifically, but I certainly wouldn't disagree. He mixes cooled ingredients and holds at fridge temp for 24 hours before a short and warm bulk fermentation. I use room temp ingredients and allow an overnight, room temp fermentation with amylase supplied by the rye. It works for me!
My reason for noting it, is that this is hardly universal practice among manual breadmakers. Adding "extra solid bits", like nuts, seeds, whole or rolled grains *after* kneading and fermenting *does* produce a lighter loaf. Its a useful tip to be aware of. |
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| bagpuss |
Okay first I will say as both a biochemist and a type 1 diabetic I am always very wary of such websites especially when they never refer to any peer reviewed data
the problems sugar can cause with the immune system are in the cases of hyperglycemia which is what occurs in both forms of diabetes when the blood sugar is consistently above 8mmols or 140mg/dl. High blood sugars do indeed supress the immune system making a person more susceptable to infections and also cause a host of other problems see this paper for details Crit Care Med. 2005 Jul;33(7):1624-33. Related Articles, Links Acute hyperglycemia and the innate immune system: clinical, cellular, and molecular aspects. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16003073&query_hl=2 Most healthy people will not see this effect with sugar as if you have a normal insulin supply and response your blood sugar is unlikely to ever significantly deviate from between 4 and 6 mmols This of course doesn't mean that sugar in large quanities is good for you. Being aware of the glycemic index of foods and making sugar you don't eat excessive amounts of processed sugar is a good idea as far as anyones health is concerned but I find this is where the maxim everything in moderation except moderation is important Sugar doesn't cause allergic reactions in many if any people as an allergy to sugar at least in its simplest form would make life very difficult. I guess what the authors are driving at is that high blood sugars and excessive consumption of sugar will cause health problems one of which is a supression of the immune system but they are over simplfying and using familar terminology to such an extent to make what they are saying misleading |
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| tawny owl |
Yes, I see what you mean. The problem is that there is so much hidden sugar that even people who try to lead a healthy lifestylle could end up taking in a lot more sugar than they need to (or even think they are), thus, although I'd agree that one teaspoon more or less in a whole loaf wouldn't be a problem (any more than some fat is), this idea that everything has to have sugar (or more likely, cheap bulky corn syrup) in it is irritating, and I think that's what WW was getting at, not necessarily bread per se. |
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| bagpuss |
I guess what I was getting it is that we do seem to have a tendency these days to vilanize food stuffs which can be connected to health problems and by a sensible everything in moderation attitude there should be no food which is out of bounds to most people which is why I questioned someone being worried by a tsp of sugar in a loaf of bread being concious of what we eat and how it can affect our bodies is a good idea but we have to be careful not to take it too extremes |
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| wellington womble |
Oh dear, I really must have ranted about that! It's not the added sugar that was the problem, it was just being told that you 'need' it, when it was much better bread without. I suspect a lot of breadmakers bad reputations are the fault of the evil villain, sugar!
Actually, I do object to sugars and sweetners being added to so much - we had an instant pasta sauce the other day, which must have been full of the stuff - it was like drinking diet coke or something, and was horrible! I find myself reducing sugar in alsorts of things I make, and one of the reasons I make stuff, is cos I can mess about with sugar and salt contents - I'm a fussy so an so. I don't know about whether sugar is addictive, or the health implications, althoguh I don't doubt it has some. I'm pretty sure I'm not addicted to sugar, but not so lucky as you might think buttery, as I'm totally adicted to cheese and butter instead! I tend to watch salt, and attempt to watch saturated fat and booze (well a bit, anyway) I don't worry about sugar, cos we rarely eat processed food or sweet stuff. oh - and I'll leave the biochemistry to cab - I haven't a clue about it, but you really can make better bread with no sugar in, honest! |
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| Stacey |
I've bought some Stevia seeds to see if they will provide any kind of reasonable alternative to processed sugar. Has anyone else tried growing and using Stevia? | ||||||||||||
| Bugs |
Where did you buy the stevia from? I believe T&M stopped selling it, because of health concerns, and have just looked it up on the FSA site which says that basically the extract or plant are not permitted for sale as food ingredients anywhere in the EU...main health concerns being effects on male fertility and "a metabolite produced by the human gut microflora, steviol, is genotoxic (ie. damages DNA)"
Stuff here about it: http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/webpage/stevia I imagine the seeds are still available for interest/as a plant but I would think twice - and then probably decide against - about eating it ...there's always angelica and such like to sweeten your fruit dishes and honey for cakes and jam
Not saying it's wrong - just - be careful! |
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| Stacey |
Oooh I didn't know any of that Bugs
I got them from Nickys seeds. I thought it was funny as she sent me a free packet of a plant which is poisonous
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