| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| Nick |
The Somme.I'm moving my pigs from their current quagmire as soon as I can get some new fencing up, and the land they've been on is thick mud and very wet. I'd like to grow something on it to restore some structure, some drainage and possibly a food crop for them next year.Any suggestions of what to plant, and where I'd get the seed from? It's perhaps a quarter of an acre. |
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| dougal |
Hereford.... hmmm... Rice? | ||||
| dpack |
get them in the house 
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| dpack |
field beans
i know beans are the devils seed but piggies like them and the improve the soil |
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| LynneA |
Want some of my JA's?
In Fat of the Land, John Seymour wrote about planting a section of field with Jerusalem Artichokes, then running the pigs in there the following winter. I suggested this to Justme once, but I don't think he reached the stage of letting the pigs loose on the JA patch. Maybe the two of you could have a go. Maybe bring them indoors after, harvest the methane and see how much power you can get out of them as well
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| Nick |
I tried them last year. Sodding rabbits, or similar had the whole crop. 
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| Cathryn |
Won't the pigs have improved it anyway or is it that you want a crop?
I am interested in the answers as I am feeding my horses on a small separate area this year which is dreadful now but the rest of the field looks better as a result. Just wondering how long the small area is going to take to recover. |
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| Nick |
I don't want a crop, but it is terribly boggy and if and when it dries out, it's going to be like concrete, so I figured some plant life would break it up a bit, give them something to root about in and probably do something to clean it up (I suspect the pig muck will have altered the natural state quite a bit...) | ||||
| cab |
So something thats got a good root system but which will do well in churned up but pretty rich ground...
Gut feeling would be sunflowers, beans, beets and sweetcorn. They're all pretty unfussy, and I'm sure the pigs would love 'em if they're allowed back in. They've all got roots that'll cope with that and stop it caking over; sunflowers seem especially good at binding and aerating soil. |
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| Rob R |
Something with a decent tap root to break up the paddled bit: http://www.cotswoldseeds.com/orglongtermGM.htm
Chicory is also a good natural wormer 
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| LynneA |
Maybe alfalfa, which has a deep root run, can be grown as a perennial, and harvested for fodder? | ||||
| Nick |
This bit of land has had pigs on it every year, for 7/9 months at a time, for 4 years. When left, it stays sterile. And now they've been on it for a year, and with the heavy rain, it's very dead. It needs some seed, else it'll regrow thistles in the next 18 months. I don't want a harvest, I'll put the pigs back on it. Maybe they'll get a harvest, but not me. 
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| Rob R |
Unfortunately alfalfa, or lucerne as it's also known, won't tollerate waterlogging, so perhaps not so good for a paddled site... | ||||
| Nick |
It's at the top of a slight incline, so it should drain, eventually. They've essentially worn it down so there's a bit of a lip (where the fence is) which stops standing water running off. | ||||
| Rob R |
Water doesn't want to be draining that way though, it needs to be draining down, or you'll end up with all the good nutrients heading down hill. Maize likes a lot of muck, but you won't want to put that in until April or May, so I'm guessing you want something early to try smothering the rubbish? | ||||
| cab |
Presumably something that'll grow early and bulk up before the nutrients all wash away then? How early in the year can you sow fodder or stubble turnips? | ||||
| Nick |
Soon as it stops raining, I'm sure it'll drain down, through the soil, but for now, there's standing water, because it's become compacted and puddled, and there's nothing plant like breaking it up.
I'm hoping to move them off it this week, and get something in there before nature takes over, as experience suggests I get a green slime growing first, then nothing except thistles, which the pigs don't like. Time isn't important, except in that sense. |
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| Nick |
Looks fine, and useful, and priced well. WHY CAN'T I BUY IT FROM THAT PAGE! GRRRR |
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| dougal |
Would it be possible to break through that 'lip' to allow the water to run off? Sounds as though that might be the easiest way to improve the drainage... and that in turn would allow you to plant better things. |
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| Rob R |
Annoying but drop them an email & you could have it by Tuesday- they're also bloody good for advice. Just been looking at sweet clover, if it would establish alright that would be another suggestion. |
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| Nick |
Not without digging further under the fence. I'm hoping to raise the level, once it's dryer, in fact, which will help in future, but it's a chicken and egg situation at the moment. I am confident it will dry, however, once I can remove the animals. | ||||
| dougal |
I was thinking that with the animals away, it wouldn't matter digging under the fence, to allow it to drain away. Then, lay in a bit of pipe for the future, and restore the bank (and thus the effectiveness of the fence!) |
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| Nick |
They're going to be on the other side of the fence, I'm afraid. | ||||
| Rob R |
You don't want to encourage water downhill anyway, terribly destructive to soil & fertility. | ||||
| RichardW |
Still want to do that but my first years planting failed to produce more than a hand full of tubers. Just about to dig the second years & see what they have produced. I want to keep a production bed running to keep a supply of tubers to plant to produce a grazing crop for the pigs. Justme |
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| Cho-ku-ri |
Sounds a very intensive and environmentally damaging way to farm. If you were a farmer receiving CAP payments you would have them docked or stopped for over stocking and poaching the soil. Naughty naughty farmer. Why do we never see pictures of naked pigs up to their 'pits' in slushy mud on web pages? |
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| Rob R |
Cos we don't look, perhaps? http://www.oldspots.org.uk/gallery/oink.jpg |
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| Nick |
4 pigs on quarter of an acre. Very, very intensive. Bad old me. |
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| Cho-ku-ri |
Quote from you "When left, it stays sterile." Isn't this a clue?
4 pigs per quarter acre equates to an avarage sized farm stocking aprox 5600 pigs. Just because something is small scale does not mean that it isn't intensive. As mentioned here before many keen veg growers grow more intensivly on their plots than any commercial farmer. |
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| Cho-ku-ri |
Ah summer wallowing isn't the same at zero degrees and a touch of frost on wet, bare skin. Nature would have the bores deep in a forest standing on weight supporting rooty ground. |
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| dougal |
Clearly, I'm a townie not a farmer, because I rather thought that standing water + stock had already resulted in, er, um, a soil of low fertility and appalling structure, that Nick was hoping to improve somehow...
Sure, a more elaborate solution, distributing the runoff right across the slope would be even better, but to *restore* fertility and soil structure to the top field, removing the standing water, somehow, has to be an early part of whatever solution, doesn't it? |
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| Nick |
The standing water is puddles, due to it raining since Noah vanished, or so it seems. As for it remaining sterile, I mean they've removed all the grass roots, and such that was there before.
Either way, the pigs are off today to new pasture, and I'll seed the ground with the GM soon as the rain dries up and the company will take my order. |
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| Rob R |
He's right about drainage, but if you were to put a pipe in it would have to be at subsoil level to avoid washing the P & K that the pigs have deposited or even the topsoil itself in heavy rain. I'm at a bit of an advantage though, as I've seen the site too. | ||||
| mochyn |
When the 2 boars go off for slaughter I'll be moving the girls up to the woodland. That will leave their (similarly muddy) field empty. I was wondering what to sow in it! Looks like the problem could be solved. Cheers! | ||||
| Cho-ku-ri |
Bad news. According to this Soil Association Standard at your stocking level that equates to almost 40 pigs per Hectare you couldn't describe your pigs as organic, 9pigs, or Freedom foods, 25-30 pigs or even Red Tractor at 30 pigs. Do you market your pigs as being intensively produced? |
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| Nick |
Nope. And currently, they're running about in 3 acres, between 5 of them. | ||||
| Cho-ku-ri |
That's better.
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| Nick |
It's NOT, the buggers should stay put, and not be out trashing the field!
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