Behemoth
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Thinking about buying a fieldThere's a field near my work, in Calderdale, in a small village, round the back of the church. The field used to be church owned allotments, only three of them, but the church itself and the field is being sold for redevelopment, either together or separately. Planning permission has been given to convert the church into two very expensive houses.
The field is in green belt and technically outside the village boundary and can only be used for agriculture, market or allotment gardening. Having spoken to the council planning office they have said that they would not approve change of use from a field to a private garden or for building.
The estate agent seems to be hoping that someone will make a mistake and either the developer of the church will try to turn it into a garden or someone will try to build on it.
The field is 60m x 20m and has no water supply (though there is permision for one).
What's a reasonable offer for a field this size?
I might take a chance and put in a silly low offer in on the grounds that you never know. My idea is to use it for orchard and soft fruit and low maintenance veg.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
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tahir
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Having looked at loads of possibilities in the last 6 months it's definitely worth buying, the planning authority will initially turn down applications for anything at all, but I was speaking to an agent yesterday that had dealt with a similar property last year in a notoriously difficult planning district. Every prospective purchaser that approached the planning office was told in no uncertain terms that no development would be allowed so it went for a pittance. A year later the guy that bought it got consent for a 4 bed house....
And it can be quite cheap to build a house.
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tahir
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Have you looked at your local authorities regional plan?
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Behemoth
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Thanks - I just have and it's full of lots of aspirations with caveats which suggest everything is written in jelly. Generally, green stays green unless you can argue otherwise. The maps were not available on line.
I overstimated the size of the field it's 40m x 20m. is that .8 of a hectare and approx half an acre?
I think someone will pay qute a bit for it and then sit on it and chip away at the planning dept. However as the estate agent isn't marketing it very well, the field is always attached to the £500k development info of the church itself, it may slip under the radar.
Any suggestions on price anybody?
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tahir
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.8 of a hectare is 2 acres, if the field was sold as agricultural it'd be anywhere between £2.5k - £5k per acre. If the church were looking to sell to one of the potential house owners for equestrian or other purposes I reckon they'd be after nearer £20 k an acre.
The field I was trying to buy fro the CofE was worth about £4k an acre, they wanted £20k an acre and had a whole long list of covenants that I'd be expected to abide by. They also included a provision for a "clawback" of a certain percentage of any value uplift achieved by me through consents and development.
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tahir
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By my calcs i make that around .2 of an acre
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wellington womble
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Where is it? I'd be tempted by the whole lot to be honest - or is it monopoly money?
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thos
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| Behemoth wrote: | Thanks - I just have and it's full of lots of aspirations with caveats which suggest everything is written in jelly. Generally, green stays green unless you can argue otherwise. The maps were not available on line.
I overstimated the size of the field it's 40m x 20m. is that .8 of a hectare and approx half an acre?
I think someone will pay qute a bit for it and then sit on it and chip away at the planning dept. However as the estate agent isn't marketing it very well, the field is always attached to the £500k development info of the church itself, it may slip under the radar.
Any suggestions on price anybody? |
Sorry, 40m x 20m = 800m² = 8 Are = 0.08 hA
That is about 0.2 acres.
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Behemoth
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Just spent the last half hour working it out - should have waited to be corrected! 
The church can only be sold to someone with the wherewithall to complete the project outlined in the planning permission - i.e. Cost approx £400k plus £200k development money.
It's south of bradford, east of halifax, and that's as close a you get!
Assuming it goes as agric land at about £4k/ acre that approx £800. Bet it goes for much more. Whoever buys the church will pick it up in the package and just sit on it.
But....
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tahir
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Now that we're agreed that it's 0.2 acres I can't see anyone buying it except as an extension to their garden which the council will probably not allow, I can't see that much hope of it being developed either as you have to present a convincing case for the reasons you'd like to build on it (i.e. looking after livestock etc).
So in answer to your question on price it's really all down to how much the church want for it, is it being handled locally or is it Church Commission?
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Behemoth
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Church commision, the church has been decomissioned/deactivated/demobbed or whatever they do to such premises and the estate agent handles a lot of ecclisiastical properties. They're acting on the chrurch commision behalf.
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tahir
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Have the agaent given you any indication? And also are there any covenants or restrictions from the church's point of view?
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Behemoth
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Might all be academic as the closing date for tenders was noon today
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tahir
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You never know, they may not have received any offers.
Give the agents a ring
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Behemoth
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Just did - and he'd just spoken to the commisioners - the field went with the church for a significant amount. I've asked him to contact me should things change.
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tahir
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You never know when something else might turn up. Aren't there any attractive victorian pumping staions in secluded settings coming up for sale your way? Insider information and all that...
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Behemoth
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Mostly flogged off ten years ago - I we don't get any favours - not even a water butt.
When my missus gets a job I''ll start looking more seriously.
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tahir
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| Behemoth wrote: | | When my missus gets a job I''ll start looking more seriously. |
That's the spirit, get her out there earning some dollars 
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Gertie
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The field where our horses are kept was recently sold for £50k - it's just over 2 acres.
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tahir
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Blimey that's more money than down here.
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Bugs
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We've been looking for woodland and a lot of it seems to be an estate being split up and sold off...the paddocks/whatever you call things for horses are significantly more expensive than the woodland, which just seems bizarre to me., but there you are.
Wouldn't a horse like to have a bit of woodland to look around? 
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Gertie
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We aren't talking lush grazing neither!
Land in this part of the country is normally a lot cheaper. However, this was at auction.
The Yorkshire Post on a Saturday has some lovely houses with land advertised for sale - I would still need to win the lottery to have a chance of buying something with a few acres.
Bugs - I've had our horses on different yards where there has been woodland and they do love it, as long as there aren't oak trees! The only time I've been frightened about them being out was in the middle of a thunder storm.
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Behemoth
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Oooh Saturday Property Post, it's almost porn. I always drop into the Playhouse for a bit of a peek and a coffee after doing my market shop (plus the beast can run around). Mmmm, out buildings.....Then I go and invest in the lottery.
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tahir
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Treacodactyl
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The other thing with very small fields is people will by them it it allows access to a much larger field. I've seen some plots for sale for far more than a house recently.
If you can get a small field and it must be kept as agricultural can fruit trees be planted or is this also change of use?
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tahir
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Orchards are agricultural
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Treacodactyl
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Mmmm, what about hazel trees and other fruit trees. Then there's sap producing trees.
I thought you need to apply for change of use to turn a field into a woodland?
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tahir
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A woodland is different from a plantation or orchard if I remember correctly.
Plantation and orchard are both agricultural
MM might know more
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Gertie
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| Behemoth wrote: | | Oooh Saturday Property Post, it's almost porn. I always drop into the Playhouse for a bit of a peek and a coffee after doing my market shop (plus the beast can run around). Mmmm, out buildings.....Then I go and invest in the lottery. |
Well, I hope you remember me - if you win a million or two extra than you need!! 
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wellington womble
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| Treacodactyl wrote: |
I thought you need to apply for change of use to turn a field into a woodland? |
It'd happen naturally if you left it long enough!
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Bugs
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| wellington womble wrote: | | Treacodactyl wrote: |
I thought you need to apply for change of use to turn a field into a woodland? |
It'd happen naturally if you left it long enough! |
Do you think you could convince the planning officers that it was just a lot longer than they thought since they last visited, when they pop by to check out your field and find it crammed with majestic oaks and a few suites worth of Scots pine?
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wellington womble
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You might be able to argue you were assisting a natural process! Of course what you ought to do is get the trees in, say they grew naturally (don't leave the tags on!) or just bung a few acorns in, then it would only be a semi-lie! get TPO's on them, and sit back and watch the planners argue with the conservation people. It'd take them years to sort it out between them, by which time you'd have your 12 years of use or whatever it is.
I am very sad to say, that probably they wouldn't have anything more constructive to do - like stoping some evil developer developing the wood next door!
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