Brownbear
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This isn't just nemesis...M&S food business interests appear to be in freefall - as the originators of the overpackaged, ludicrously overpriced, designer food, boil-in-the-oven, pretend-its-yours food, I feel this is long overdue.
But is this hapenning because people are starting to see through the hype (especially those chocolate puddings that burst and ooze like a brown abscess), because people are a bit short of the readies, or because other retailers have taken over the 'concept' from M&S.
I hope it is the former but rather fear the latter is more likely.
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Jonnyboy
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I bet you a dressed canadian lobster that it's the latter. Lidl and aldi are showing impressive growth.
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woodsprite
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Funny enough Mr W and I were discussing the very same thing last evening. Unfortunately we reached the same conclusion. 
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boisdevie1
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Household income is being squeezed:
1. Fuel price increases.
2. Food price increases.
3. Council tax increasing faster than salaries.
4. Many renegotiating mortgages which lead to higher outlay.
So we're in for a very very tough time. Disposable income is down so people will spend less on other stuff and the whole economy will suffer. I don't think that politicians are prepared to accept how bad things are going to get.
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cab
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Other news reports from earleir this week said that Iceland and Aldo (and the like) have seen an increase in sales. Sounds like people are feeling the pinch and economising by buying from cheaper supermarkets.
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Andy B
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Does anyone know what the average age of a M&S customer is?
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cab
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| Andy B wrote: | | Does anyone know what the average age of a M&S customer is? |
Dunno, but I'd guess around 106.
And they all seem to go to the same hairdressers to get the 'regulation M&S hairstyle' too.
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marigold
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| boisdevie1 wrote: | | I don't think that politicians are prepared to accept how bad things are going to get. |
I suspect politicians know only too well, but they are hardly likely to come out and tell the electorate are they???
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Andy B
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| cab wrote: | | Andy B wrote: | | Does anyone know what the average age of a M&S customer is? |
Dunno, but I'd guess around 106.
And they all seem to go to the same hairdressers to get the 'regulation M&S hairstyle' too. |
I have a theory that a certain age range, early 50's upwards are not really affected that much by the credit crunch, i wonder if the M&S demograph fits. Or i could be wrong, been known to happen.
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marigold
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| cab wrote: | | Andy B wrote: | | Does anyone know what the average age of a M&S customer is? |
Dunno, but I'd guess around 106.
And they all seem to go to the same hairdressers to get the 'regulation M&S hairstyle' too. |
I'd have said 103, but maybe people look younger living by the sea  .
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marigold
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| Andy B wrote: | | I have a theory that a certain age range, early 50's upwards are not really affected that much by the credit crunch, |
If only!!!!! 
I don't think it's got much to do with age.
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vegplot
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| Jonnyboy wrote: | | I bet you a dressed canadian lobster that it's the latter. Lidl and aldi are showing impressive growth. |
While the quality of their food improves, especially Lidl's who also tend to source more in the UK than they used to.
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Frewen
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So how do Aldi and Lidl retail their goods so cheaply?
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RichardW
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| Frewen wrote: | | So how do Aldi and Lidl retail their goods so cheaply? |
Stack it high & sell it cheap.
low cost shops with minimal "window dressing"
no fancy display stands
not taking credit cards reduces fees
low cost / rental shop siting in less popular areas
less staff (but paid more so work harder)
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jema
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I don't tend to look in m&s, when we did look round one on Cambridge I was gobsmacked by the amount of packaging they use 
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vegplot
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| RichardW wrote: | | Frewen wrote: | | So how do Aldi and Lidl retail their goods so cheaply? |
Stack it high & sell it cheap.
low cost shops with minimal "window dressing"
no fancy display stands
not taking credit cards reduces fees
low cost / rental shop siting in less popular areas
less staff (but paid more so work harder) |
The staffing levels are noticeable. Neither in Lidl or Aldi, do you see more than two or three staff at any one time. The pay at Lidl and Aldi, I believe, is very good. Shop managers at around 35k.
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RichardW
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Shop assistance £7-9 per hour I think
Lidl store assistants upto £8
Aldi £7.50 rising to c.£8.60 per hour (plus London weighting)
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Stacey
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Last I heard staff at Lidl are kind of sub contracted in as self-employed so they have to pay all their own tax and NI. It makes the wages look better than they are. It may have changed in the meantime as this was about 5 yrs ago.
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RichardW
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| Quote: | Why do we pay our Staff so well?
We believe that our Store Assistants are the best in the retail business. The job involves much more than most shop work as our teams are small. Our Store Assistants do everything in the Store, work harder and faster than most, are flexible with their shifts and expect to use their own initiative day in day out. We think that our Store Assistants are worth every penny. And by the way, there are no hidden charges that reduce your pay to more ‘normal’ rates. We pay more because our Store Assistants deliver more.
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From Aldi web site
Also I dont think that would stand the test of self employment from the Tax office
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cab
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| jema wrote: | | I don't tend to look in m&s, when we did look round one on Cambridge I was gobsmacked by the amount of packaging they use |
Whats even more gobsmacking is seeing people queueing up there with produce shipped from miles away, paying more than they'd pay for better local goods at the market stalls just opposite. When there are outstanding local (like, within 4 miles) strawberries for sale on the market, people still buy strawberries from goodness knows where in M&S. Shows a certain element of dim wittedness, in my view
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Stacey
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| RichardW wrote: | | Quote: | Why do we pay our Staff so well?
We believe that our Store Assistants are the best in the retail business. The job involves much more than most shop work as our teams are small. Our Store Assistants do everything in the Store, work harder and faster than most, are flexible with their shifts and expect to use their own initiative day in day out. We think that our Store Assistants are worth every penny. And by the way, there are no hidden charges that reduce your pay to more ‘normal’ rates. We pay more because our Store Assistants deliver more.
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From Aldi web site
Also I dont think that would stand the test of self employment from the Tax office |
Like I said - maybe it's changed. I was told it by someone who worked as a manager for Lidl but it was a few years ago now.
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Stacey
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| cab wrote: | | jema wrote: | | I don't tend to look in m&s, when we did look round one on Cambridge I was gobsmacked by the amount of packaging they use |
Whats even more gobsmacking is seeing people queueing up there with produce shipped from miles away, paying more than they'd pay for better local goods at the market stalls just opposite. When there are outstanding local (like, within 4 miles) strawberries for sale on the market, people still buy strawberries from goodness knows where in M&S. Shows a certain element of dim wittedness, in my view |
Mr Tolerance all over aincha
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jema
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Lidl are not Aldi 
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Stacey
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| jema wrote: | | Lidl are not Aldi |
Who said they were?
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jema
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You talk about Lidl and then respond to stuff about Aldi as if it applies to Lidl....
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Stacey
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| jema wrote: | | You talk about Lidl and then respond to stuff about Aldi as if it applies to Lidl.... |
No I don't - read it again.
| RichardW wrote: | Shop assistance £7-9 per hour I think
Lidl store assistants upto £8
Aldi £7.50 rising to c.£8.60 per hour (plus London weighting |
to which I replied
| Quote: | Last I heard staff at Lidl are kind of sub contracted in as self-employed so they have to pay all their own tax and NI. It makes the wages look better than they are. It may have changed in the meantime as this was about 5 yrs ago.
_________________
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If you want to nit pcik anyone try Richard - he's the one who responded with the Aldi wages
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Brownbear
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Aldi tends to attract a much better class of Chav.
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Stacey
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| Brownbear wrote: | | Aldi tends to attract a much better class of Chav. |
Don't start
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jema
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| Stacey wrote: | | jema wrote: | | You talk about Lidl and then respond to stuff about Aldi as if it applies to Lidl.... |
No I don't - read it again.
| RichardW wrote: | Shop assistance £7-9 per hour I think
Lidl store assistants upto £8
Aldi £7.50 rising to c.£8.60 per hour (plus London weighting |
to which I replied
| Quote: | Last I heard staff at Lidl are kind of sub contracted in as self-employed so they have to pay all their own tax and NI. It makes the wages look better than they are. It may have changed in the meantime as this was about 5 yrs ago.
_________________
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If you want to nit pcik anyone try Richard - he's the one who responded with the Aldi wages |
and you responded with "like i said maybe its changed" as if his post about Aldi was relevant.
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vegplot
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| Brownbear wrote: | | Aldi tends to attract a much better class of Chav. |
Is there such a thing?
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Brownbear
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| vegplot wrote: | | Brownbear wrote: | | Aldi tends to attract a much better class of Chav. |
Is there such a thing? |
Of course. The Aldi sort always ask pardon after throwing up their white cider breakfast, and after unleashing a stream of obscenities will add "If you don't mind me saying so."
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lottie
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| vegplot wrote: | | Brownbear wrote: | | Aldi tends to attract a much better class of Chav. |
Is there such a thing? |
I'm a very good class of chav---who has to shop at lidl 'cos we don't have an Aldi---got a £5 M&S voucher in the post this morning as a consolation prize in a free draw---think our nearest one is 50 miles away
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Treacodactyl
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Back on topic, I wonder how this will affect the animal welfare of food being sold. Doesn't M&S only sell free range poultry and eggs, what about the other cheaper stores?
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cab
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Theres a certain honesty to the pile-it-high-flog-it-cheap supermarkets that I quite admire. They're not pretending to have a better range, they're not re-packaging average food as 'taste the difference' or whatever other fake labels are used... Their produce is just exactly what it appears to be. And for things like tinned tomatoes, oil and suchlike they're fine. As for fruit and veg, my observation is that our local one (Aldi, I think, although it could be Lidl) has as good as or better range of British fruit and veg than any of the bigger supermarkets.
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Brownbear
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| Treacodactyl wrote: | | Back on topic, I wonder how this will affect the animal welfare of food being sold. Doesn't M&S only sell free range poultry and eggs, what about the other cheaper stores? |
Well, there's free range as legally possible to get away with, and then there's free range as a normal person would understand it. I imagine that the M&S one would not be the latter model.
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cab
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| Treacodactyl wrote: | | Back on topic, I wonder how this will affect the animal welfare of food being sold. Doesn't M&S only sell free range poultry and eggs, what about the other cheaper stores? |
While they do say that, I doubt that they ensure the highest standards we'd hope for... But still, you're right, I should think that its better than the ordinary products in cheaper shops.
The sad thing is that thus far this squeeze does not seem to be pushing more people towards shopping for cheaper ethical products, sourcing straight from suppliers, etc
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Jonnyboy
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| Treacodactyl wrote: | | Back on topic, I wonder how this will affect the animal welfare of food being sold. Doesn't M&S only sell free range poultry and eggs, what about the other cheaper stores? |
I don't know. But part of me feels that the M&S blanket free range approach to poultry products, whilst happily selling intensively reared pork, for example. Simply encourages its shoppers not to apply any critical evaluation to the ethics of their weekly shop.
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vegplot
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The drive to cheaper shops is good in one respect in that as BB stated in the initial post it will move away from overpriced food. My concern is that quality will be pushed aside in the search for cheaper food and that might negate on local suppliers who prices appear to be on parity with supermarkets (as judged by a local farmers mart recently).
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Stacey
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| jema wrote: | | Stacey wrote: | | jema wrote: | | You talk about Lidl and then respond to stuff about Aldi as if it applies to Lidl.... |
No I don't - read it again.
| RichardW wrote: | Shop assistance £7-9 per hour I think
Lidl store assistants upto £8
Aldi £7.50 rising to c.£8.60 per hour (plus London weighting |
to which I replied
| Quote: | Last I heard staff at Lidl are kind of sub contracted in as self-employed so they have to pay all their own tax and NI. It makes the wages look better than they are. It may have changed in the meantime as this was about 5 yrs ago.
_________________
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If you want to nit pcik anyone try Richard - he's the one who responded with the Aldi wages |
and you responded with "like i said maybe its changed" as if his post about Aldi was relevant. |
Bit bored today are we, Jema?
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Stacey
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| cab wrote: | | Theres a certain honesty to the pile-it-high-flog-it-cheap supermarkets that I quite admire. They're not pretending to have a better range, they're not re-packaging average food as 'taste the difference' or whatever other fake labels are used... Their produce is just exactly what it appears to be. And for things like tinned tomatoes, oil and suchlike they're fine. As for fruit and veg, my observation is that our local one (Aldi, I think, although it could be Lidl) has as good as or better range of British fruit and veg than any of the bigger supermarkets. |
How do you know what M&S or Aldi food tastes like when you don't buy it?
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lottie
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I don't buy eggs but Lidl do sell free range---I noticed yesterday that they were offering the option of frozen fish from one of the managed for conservation areas--which put an extra £ on the price--I don't think they are better or worse than any of the other mainstream retailers
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Stacey
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| Jonnyboy wrote: | | Treacodactyl wrote: | | Back on topic, I wonder how this will affect the animal welfare of food being sold. Doesn't M&S only sell free range poultry and eggs, what about the other cheaper stores? |
I don't know. But part of me feels that the M&S blanket free range approach to poultry products, whilst happily selling intensively reared pork, for example. Simply encourages its shoppers not to apply any critical evaluation to the ethics of their weekly shop. |
I'm not sure people critically evaluate the ethics of their weekly shop anyway. They see the word 'Ethical' and that's all they want to know. They never dig deeper.
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Treacodactyl
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| Brownbear wrote: | | Treacodactyl wrote: | | Back on topic, I wonder how this will affect the animal welfare of food being sold. Doesn't M&S only sell free range poultry and eggs, what about the other cheaper stores? |
Well, there's free range as legally possible to get away with, and then there's free range as a normal person would understand it. I imagine that the M&S one would not be the latter model. |
Even if that was true it would still be better than the minimum standards the various celeb chefs are asking for.
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Brownbear
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| Stacey wrote: |
I'm not sure people critically evaluate the ethics of their weekly shop anyway. They see the word 'Ethical' and that's all they want to know. They never dig deeper. |
Very true. That's how the RSPCA make their money out of selling their name for 'freedom foods'.
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cab
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| Stacey wrote: |
How do you know what M&S or Aldi food tastes like when you don't buy it? |
I do occasionally get fed things by others. And there are things that I do get from sumermarkets; as you should recall from previous discussions, I've got nothing against grocers, and there are some groceries best purchased there.
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Brownbear
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I've found a non-chain grocers run by a pleasant local family, it sells every kind of herb and spice one might imagine, as well as tinned and dried goods.
For basics I go to the cash and carry and buy in bulk.
No supermarkets required any longer, thank God.
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Stacey
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| cab wrote: | | Stacey wrote: |
How do you know what M&S or Aldi food tastes like when you don't buy it? |
I do occasionally get fed things by others. And there are things that I do get from sumermarkets; as you should recall from previous discussions, I've got nothing against grocers, and there are some groceries best purchased there. |
I frequently tell people at dinner parties, 'That's from Aldi, you know'
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Helen_A
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| Andy B wrote: | | Does anyone know what the average age of a M&S customer is? |
For ad buying, they seem to go for the 35-55 demographic general, and Clothing-wise, they are buying down into 25-35 end of the market.
Helen_A
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wellington womble
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They do a lot of UK stuff, though. I like M and S - they only use free range eggs, too.
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Jonnyboy
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| Helen_A wrote: |
Clothing-wise, they are buying down into 25-35 end of the market.
Helen_A |
I'm too old for M&S?
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sean
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Yep. Your M&S window has passed. It's trousers from newspaper supplement ads all the way now.
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Jamanda
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| Brownbear wrote: | I've found a non-chain grocers run by a pleasant local family, it sells every kind of herb and spice one might imagine, as well as tinned and dried goods.
For basics I go to the cash and carry and buy in bulk.
No supermarkets required any longer, thank God. |
Where exactly is that BB? You've mentioned it before.
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Helen_A
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Noooooo
25-25 in *addition* to the 35+ range
Helen_A who likes the black, organic cotton Made in turkey, skinny jeans that M&S did briefly but seem to have stopped now
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Bebo
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M&S.
Knickers.
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Jonnyboy
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I blame paxman.
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Bebo
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Whats a little blob dashing around a screen eating pills and being chased by ghosts got to do with M&S?
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Calli
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Once heard a scurrilous rumour that Aldi and Lidl share the same warehousing and network distribution providers.
Ever noticed that the specials run in cycles between the two chains? Coinidence?
hmm
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Brownbear
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| Jamanda wrote: | | Brownbear wrote: | I've found a non-chain grocers run by a pleasant local family, it sells every kind of herb and spice one might imagine, as well as tinned and dried goods.
For basics I go to the cash and carry and buy in bulk.
No supermarkets required any longer, thank God. |
Where exactly is that BB? You've mentioned it before. |
Well Street, Exeter. It's called R. L. Hira, a family I believe originally from India. Open all hours, great bags and pouches of spices for a quid, half-litres of oyster sauce for the price of 75ml in a supermarket. If they haven't go what you want they'll do their damndest to convince you that some other thing that they have got in stock is what you want instead, but apart from that they're great.
Also two doors away is one of those shops where people go to buy brown rice and pretend-milk and strange crackers made specially not to include certain ingredients normally considered a vital component part of crackers.
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Dee J
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Know both those stores quite well... we used to have a flat near the football ground just up the road from there. Now we're in the wilds of west devon - so it's Okehampton for the basics and Tavistock for the farmers market and a rather nice deli...
Dee
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