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Tavascarow

To make it easier for developers IMHO

I distinctly remember a young David Cameroon saying 'Be Green vote Blue'. Stating that if the conservatives got elected they would be the greenest government we have ever had.
Yet I know discover Natural England, a government agency is advocating allowing destruction of eggs & nests of some of our more common & not so common birds.
I'm on a mates iPad & don't know how to cut & paste links but an interesting article in the guardian.
IMHO this is just an excuse for developers to strip the environment to build all these new houses we are supposed to need at the mo.
Nesting birds, even quite common species often delay building by many months.
Hairyloon

Re: To make it easier for developers IMHO

I distinctly remember a young David Cameroon saying 'Be Green vote Blue'. Stating that if the conservatives got elected they would be the greenest government we have ever had...

Green is what you usually get when you mix yellow and blue...
Rob R

Re: To make it easier for developers IMHO

I'm on a mates iPad & don't know how to cut & paste links but an interesting article in the guardian.

This one? baldybloke

Re: To make it easier for developers IMHO

I distinctly remember a young David Cameroon saying 'Be Green vote Blue'. Stating that if the conservatives got elected they would be the greenest government we have ever had...
Green is what you usually get when you mix yellow and blue...
As a colour matcher by trade, I can only agree that yellow and blue does indeed make green. However it hasn't proved to be the case politically. Will be showing my true colours tomorrow at the Polling Station.
Rob R

Re: To make it easier for developers IMHO

IMHO this is just an excuse for developers to strip the environment to build all these new houses we are supposed to need at the mo.
Nesting birds, even quite common species often delay building by many months.

Not just building new houses, but doing up old ones, too.

I'm well into providing habitats and proper land management for nesting birds (as you'll be well aware) but in the wrong place it can be very disruptive. There was one (blackbird) trying to build it's nest on the top of my chiller unit, thankfully I managed to stop it before it laid any eggs but if it had, that would have been my business out of action for a month at least, likely to be longer as they use the same nest more than once in the season.

Natural England should be there to ensure adequate nesting sites, IMO, but they shouldn't be in the business of protecting every nest at all costs.
Mistress Rose

Sadly legislation can't take into account common sense. In the case of your chiller Rob, it was obvious that that was a bad place for them to build. I have also seen young pairs build within 3' of the ground in a holly tree and on a sloping projection on a chimney breast outside my parents front door.

It is not uncommon for various bits of forestry equipment to be out of commission for parts of the spring and summer with birds nested in them. We had one nest in a pipe of our log frame for the processor. When son went to have a look, the female bluetit spat at him.

I am concerned that a number of birds, including those that have falling numbers are proposed to be moved off the licencable register, but do feel that licences ought to be granted more easily for some species, perhaps a sort of halfway house.
Tavascarow

I couldn't agree more Rob, but I fear this will just be the start, & much rarer species will be next.
My concern is for a piece of heathland that holds breeding pairs of stonechats, yellowhammers, various warblers & cuckoos to name a few & is currently threatened by a large development.
The current rules & greener building codes mean the developers can only disturb the site out of season & have to create new like for like elsewhere, this will make that pointless.
Tavascarow

Re: To make it easier for developers IMHO

I'm on a mates iPad & don't know how to cut & paste links but an interesting article in the guardian.

This one? Ay that's the one.
Thanks. Very Happy
dpack

there have been some rather sneaky changes to planning laws which definitely favor the build ,trouser cash and run style of development

exempting things from public planning inquiry is a good example

un necessary railway (but potentially profitable for the building contractors)through the local sssi anyone?
buzzy

Interesting to read Natural England's response to these criticisms.

Quote
Wildlife myths

1. Natural England is allowing the destruction of robins’ nests to help developers

This is not true. The proposal in no way changes the narrow set of circumstances in which it is legal to take action. The removal of nests for development purposes is not a licensable activity under the Wildlife & Countryside Act. Proposal 2 on the consultation is quite clear that General Licences permit the destruction of pied wagtail, robin and starling nests where the location of those nests represents a potential health and safety hazard ONLY. This could be where the birds are nesting in areas of hospitals or food-handling premises - such as in ventilation flues - which have the potential to spread infection. It could also be where nesting in gas pipework or a railway signal box could lead to a serious accident. The proposed licence change would allow essential action to be taken more quickly. The destruction of a nest outside the circumstances proposed would remain illegal under the Act.
Endquote

There are a lot of people out there making cheap political points, and not at all interested in conservation, I'm afraid.

Henry
Rob R

I couldn't agree more Rob, but I fear this will just be the start, & much rarer species will be next.

Why?
Tavascarow

Because once you open a door it's not always so easy to close it.
Maybe my fears are misguided, but there is no doubt that our rights & those of the environment have been seriously eroded over the last decade & particularly in this present governments term.
dpack

not just birds and builders

"Cameron has said fracking would be "good for our country" and has blamed a lack of understanding of the process for some of the opposition. The government is preparing to introduce changes to the trespass laws that would make it easier to begin fracking.

A government figure insisted that local people would still be consulted, but that a few objectors would not be able to stand in the way, according to the Times.

The source said: "If planning permission is granted above ground, we cannot allow a small number of people to delay the agreed development by trying to wrap the pipes in reams of red tape below ground."

from the grauniad
Rob R

Because once you open a door it's not always so easy to close it.
Maybe my fears are misguided, but there is no doubt that our rights & those of the environment have been seriously eroded over the last decade & particularly in this present governments term.

I think you are being a little rash, until the more damaging proposal is mooted we should concentrate our efforts on the real threats. We all agree that the present situation is unworkable. As it happens they have just been talking about birds building nests in cars & the RSPB said it would be wrong to move them because of the law. I don't know anyone who would acctually obey the law in this scenario.
Tavascarow

Because once you open a door it's not always so easy to close it.
Maybe my fears are misguided, but there is no doubt that our rights & those of the environment have been seriously eroded over the last decade & particularly in this present governments term.

I think you are being a little rash, until the more damaging proposal is mooted we should concentrate our efforts on the real threats. We all agree that the present situation is unworkable. As it happens they have just been talking about birds building nests in cars & the RSPB said it would be wrong to move them because of the law. I don't know anyone who would acctually obey the law in this scenario. I can remember my father not using his tractor for a month because a wren was nesting under the bonnet (he did have a second tractor he could use though). Same man put an electric fence around a skylarks nest to stop the cows from disturbing it. & that was at a time when skylarks where still plentiful.
Maybe I am being a 'little rash' but I've seen enough of the workings of politicians to know that their actions are rarely simple & often veiled.
The laws protecting the environment & the creatures who live there have been hard fought for & only recently taken seriously, & to see them eroded so soon in various subtle ways sticks in my throat.
If I was an egg collector or a gamekeeper destroying raptor nests & caught by the law I think part of my defence might be DC said it was alright at the mo.
Rob R

Because once you open a door it's not always so easy to close it.
Maybe my fears are misguided, but there is no doubt that our rights & those of the environment have been seriously eroded over the last decade & particularly in this present governments term.

I think you are being a little rash, until the more damaging proposal is mooted we should concentrate our efforts on the real threats. We all agree that the present situation is unworkable. As it happens they have just been talking about birds building nests in cars & the RSPB said it would be wrong to move them because of the law. I don't know anyone who would acctually obey the law in this scenario. I can remember my father not using his tractor for a month because a wren was nesting under the bonnet (he did have a second tractor he could use though). Same man put an electric fence around a skylarks nest to stop the cows from disturbing it. & that was at a time when skylarks where still plentiful.
Maybe I am being a 'little rash' but I've seen enough of the workings of politicians to know that their actions are rarely simple & often veiled.

Maybe you're right, but it does noone any good to be fighting a battle that doesn't need fighting and it errodes your support for a real battle if you use it all up early on.

We've probably all done sentimental acts to preserve nests in the past but it hasn't done anything to halt the declines. I could have left that nest on the chiller and waited until after the weekend to ring the authorities but by then it would likely have been finished and had some eggs in, so as far as the bird was conerned it was better to remove it early on & save a lot of wasted energy.

The same goes for the wider populations of birds - it'd be better for bird populations if I stay in business and manage the whole farm as good nesting sites for many birds than losing money being out of action to save one. And I'm willing to stand in court and say that, but it'd be better for everyone if I don't have to.

The laws protecting the environment & the creatures who live there have been hard fought for & only recently taken seriously, & to see them eroded so soon in various subtle ways sticks in my throat.
If I was an egg collector or a gamekeeper destroying raptor nests & caught by the law I think part of my defence might be DC said it was alright at the mo.

The courts are there to enforce the law, taking account of all the evidence put before them. If that excuse stood up in court, then I do think we'd have something to shout about, as it'd be akin to someone caught doing 60 in a 30 zone getting off because it's fine to do 70 on a motorway.
Hairyloon

The courts are there to enforce the law...
No, the police are there to enforce the law.
Quote:
If that excuse stood up in court...

It would not stand up in court, but on a less extreme offence it might persuade a copper to let you off this time...
Mistress Rose

Tavascarow, I can see that you are concerned because you see this as the thin end of the wedge, and I agree it could be. Having recently discussed the ecology of several sites with developers, I can see that they will do the absolute minimum the law requires, even if common sense tells them that this is not enough and that they could be storing up problems, like badgers going through fences for their customers.

As far as nests in unsuitable places, like Robs chiller is concerned, I think most people will do all they can to dissuade the birds anyway regardless of the law.
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