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spicycauldron

Trying to source strong grass multi-seed mix

Saw a fascinatiing programme 'A Farm for the Future' - can be found on Google Video - and on it there was reference to land growing a thick mix of grasses that was so thick it was difficult to part to see the ground. This kind of thickness is what I'm looking to cultivate, it's ideal but I understand not all grasses suit all places - and don't know how you're supposed to tell. I mean, I can't guess from looking at local grasses and is it a case of some grasses won't grow while others will do really well?

I do know we live in an area known for hill-grazing sheep. We can see them on the hills behind our house every day!

It's for turning a desolate but significant portion of garden into a robustly-grassed area for the hens to 'play' on that won't, unlike normal suburban grass, which is comparatively weak, give up and vanish within days.

I need tough grasses, really. It is also intended to be left to grow wild, never cultivated beyond the initial sowing, to bring in beneficial insects and provide seeds for birds etc etc.

I've seen wildly varying prices for grass seed from £35 for a 25kg bag to upwards of £80 or £90 which for a home concern and limited income is out of my price range. I could handle up to £40.

I was hoping someone might have advice for me, maybe even some links to online stores selling suitable grass mixes at prices that are affordable for home concerns. Thank you in advance!
cab

Nickys has a broad selection:

http://www.nickys-nursery.co.uk/seeds/pages/grassseed.htm
spicycauldron

cab wrote:
Nickys has a broad selection:

http://www.nickys-nursery.co.uk/seeds/pages/grassseed.htm


Thanks for that cab. Perfect! I'm looking at the ley mixtures right now, they're within that up to £40 price range.
gil

Have you come across the Cockle Park-type grass mixes in your search ? I noticed prices for seed mixes varied widely when I last looked.

The MSc Organic Farming course I did covered grass mixes [more from soil fertility / quadruped grazing / silage perspective though, not poultry], so I'll dig out my notes etc to see if I can find owt useful.

Are you on the same kind of hill soil as the sheep farms, or down in the valley ?

Edit to add : You want to be thinking 'permanent pasture', not a short ley.

Thanks for posting this, Andy - I need to look at that material again soon anyway, so this will push me to start.
spicycauldron

Hiya Gil

No, not come across those but will do a search and see what comes up.

We're on the same kind of hill soil, yes. The sheep aren't that far from us at all - about ten minutes as the crow flies. Of course our garden like any other used to have non-local turf grass until the hens demolished every last trace of it. I think thicker, rougher grasses that won't even part easily to reveal the soil would stand a better chance of longevity and durability. Besides, they'd be better in the chickens' diet than standard lawn grass.

There is a permanent pasture mix we've decided to go for, so your advice reinforces what we interpreted from the 'writeups' of each grass mix. It would be out of our price range at just over £50a bag but our friend Jo is going halves with us as she wants to experiment as well in the same way, so £25 each is way more palatable as a cost and still gives each of us a massive amount of seed. The mix looks ideal and even references being used for chickens:

http://www.nickys-nursery.co.uk/seeds/pages/ley-mixtures.htm

(it's at the bottom of the page linked to above)

What do you reckon?

gil wrote:
Have you come across the Cockle Park-type grass mixes in your search ? I noticed prices for seed mixes varied widely when I last looked.

The MSc Organic Farming course I did covered grass mixes [more from soil fertility / quadruped grazing / silage perspective though, not poultry], so I'll dig out my notes etc to see if I can find owt useful.

Are you on the same kind of hill soil as the sheep farms, or down in the valley ?

Edit to add : You want to be thinking 'permanent pasture', not a short ley.

Thanks for posting this, Andy - I need to look at that material again soon anyway, so this will push me to start.
spicycauldron

Gods know what the garden is actually going to look like, of course, with this grand experiment but we're hoping for a nice wild meadow effect and have already sown various wildflower mixes in places, plus a few clover varieties. It looks like the farm it has become but that in my view is infinitely more interesting and fun to spend time in than the green deserts on either side of us populated with giant trampolines! Very Happy

The idea is basically, without being grounded in the science, to try to give the land what it likes rather than impose upon it more than what is absolutely necessary - which is the raised veg beds and two flower beds, really. So this year I'm not pulling up all the weeds, I'm going to adopt a 'see what happens' approach and try to learn from that for next year.

Still, neighbours might well see mess where we see nature. That's always the way. But I don't think it will be mess at all. And of course with the new grasses we will also have a bulking supply for the compost bins as well!
gil

Cockle Park grass mixes : included herbs in the mix such as yarrow, burnet, chicory. Bother to increase soil fertility and for the enjoyment / taste experience for livestock. The herbs may also have some medicinal functions, some acting as wormers, etc.

PRG is hmmm...... how to put it - will certainly last, but is often thought of organically as being a bit of a monoculture monster. i.e. less conducive to biodiversity than other grass mixes. It is good for making a lot of silage, though - my farmer neighbour [non-organic] uses pure PRG for his upland silage fields, and reseeds about every 12 years, and it does last well.

I'll look up some other links to seed suppliers, cos I found some a couple of years back that did mixes that were more varied / interesting.

RobR has experience of other grass mixes, ISTR [?????]
Ixy

the grass would benefit from some kind of cutting or grazing - that's what thickens it up. guinea pigs would be good! or rabbits? or geese.
Lorrainelovesplants

I saw this last season - marketed as Canadian mix. Tried it and yes it works, came up good and strong (in the spring drought) survived the Cornish monsoon that passes for a summer, and has completely covered the earthworks we threw up digging in a new water main.
spicycauldron

gil wrote:
Cockle Park grass mixes : included herbs in the mix such as yarrow, burnet, chicory. Bother to increase soil fertility and for the enjoyment / taste experience for livestock. The herbs may also have some medicinal functions, some acting as wormers, etc.

PRG is hmmm...... how to put it - will certainly last, but is often thought of organically as being a bit of a monoculture monster. i.e. less conducive to biodiversity than other grass mixes. It is good for making a lot of silage, though - my farmer neighbour [non-organic] uses pure PRG for his upland silage fields, and reseeds about every 12 years, and it does last well. I'll look up some other links to seed suppliers, cos I found some a couple of years back that did mixes that were more varied / interesting.

RobR has experience of other grass mixes, ISTR [?????]


Hi Gil

Sorry it's taken me a few days to get back online and respond. I appreciate the assistance greatly. Hmm. I don't want a monoculture monster in a garden situation. Obviously happy to have an unorthodox non-trad garden sans lawn but with a change towards more, not less, diversity! Smile
spicycauldron

gil wrote:
Cockle Park grass mixes : included herbs in the mix such as yarrow, burnet, chicory. Bother to increase soil fertility and for the enjoyment / taste experience for livestock. The herbs may also have some medicinal functions, some acting as wormers, etc.

PRG is hmmm...... how to put it - will certainly last, but is often thought of organically as being a bit of a monoculture monster. i.e. less conducive to biodiversity than other grass mixes. It is good for making a lot of silage, though - my farmer neighbour [non-organic] uses pure PRG for his upland silage fields, and reseeds about every 12 years, and it does last well. I'll look up some other links to seed suppliers, cos I found some a couple of years back that did mixes that were more varied / interesting.

RobR has experience of other grass mixes, ISTR [?????]


Hi Gil

Sorry it's taken me a few days to get back online and respond. I appreciate the assistance greatly. Hmm. I don't want a monoculture monster in a garden situation. Obviously happy to have an unorthodox non-trad garden sans lawn but with a change towards more, not less, diversity! Smile
spicycauldron

Lorrainelovesplants wrote:
I saw this last season - marketed as Canadian mix. Tried it and yes it works, came up good and strong (in the spring drought) survived the Cornish monsoon that passes for a summer, and has completely covered the earthworks we threw up digging in a new water main.


What mix do you refer to, Lorrainelovesplants? The one I found, the one referenced by Gil? Or is the 'Canadian mix' something different again?

Grasses that would mask earthworks would be good! I don't want to be carving up the earth just to sow the seed, of course, but over the past year some digging has been necessary especially to start working organic matter into boggy areas (so far working to alleviate flood hotspots!).
spicycauldron

I have no idea why my response to Gil above appears twice - I only hit the button once, but apologies for the duplication regardless!
spicycauldron

Ixy wrote:
the grass would benefit from some kind of cutting or grazing - that's what thickens it up. guinea pigs would be good! or rabbits? or geese.


We have chickens that can strip land of all plant material like hungry locusts. Very Happy
Ixy

spicycauldron wrote:
Ixy wrote:
the grass would benefit from some kind of cutting or grazing - that's what thickens it up. guinea pigs would be good! or rabbits? or geese.


We have chickens that can strip land of all plant material like hungry locusts. Very Happy


yes, that is slightly different to grazing though - grazing geese won't scratch up the roots up, they just nick the top of the blade off, encouraging the plant to grow more blades and thicken up. chickens are just plain thugs. A bit of grazing would create that thick mat as seen in the programme and make the grass better able to withstand the chickens.
gil

Andy - check your PMs, and let me know if the info I attached has arrived readably !
spicycauldron

gil wrote:
Andy - check your PMs, and let me know if the info I attached has arrived readably !


Hi Gil

Thank you so much for that - I just downloaded the doc file and am reading it through now! Very Happy
spicycauldron

Ixy wrote:
spicycauldron wrote:
Ixy wrote:
the grass would benefit from some kind of cutting or grazing - that's what thickens it up. guinea pigs would be good! or rabbits? or geese.


We have chickens that can strip land of all plant material like hungry locusts. Very Happy


yes, that is slightly different to grazing though - grazing geese won't scratch up the roots up, they just nick the top of the blade off, encouraging the plant to grow more blades and thicken up. chickens are just plain thugs. A bit of grazing would create that thick mat as seen in the programme and make the grass better able to withstand the chickens.


Thugs is right! Okay, now I understand. Thanks for the info!
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