| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| cab |
Water meterJust talked to the local water company.When I last asked they said we wouldn't save money with a water meter. As we try not to waste water anyway, I decided against getting a water meter. No brainer really. Asked again, as the opposite advice had more recently been given to Bagpuss's bloke when he enquired after moving into a similar home. They now say we'd save a little money. Is there a bad side to a getting a water meter fitted? |
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| Northern_Lad |
When you plumb in the jacuzzi for the hedgehog you'll get stung.
If you're a low user then it should only be good for you, and you're in control (to a large extent, not entirely) how much you spend on water. The besnorkled one should bound into view soon enough. |
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| RichardW |
Do you water the garden or use tap water for stock / other animals? If so then dont get a meter. Or do a test run by fitting your own & see what usage you realy get. i think once you have one fitted you have a short while to go back to unmetered but I think they leave the meter in any way so they get the next owner.
Justme |
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| cab |
Errm... We do water the garden, sometimes even with a hose, but not so much because the garden ain't all that big. The only livestock we have is a giant african land snail and a hedgehog being nursed to health before release in Spring, so they hardly count 
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| marigold |
You may save a little money, but you may also turn into a miserable neurotic water-miser, getting ratty if a guest leaves a tap running while they brush their teeth, overfills the kettle or washes their hands too often. Also bear in mind that your cooking and wine-making activities may use more water than the "average" household.
Whilst I think it's important not to waste water I also think the £301 a year I pay for water services is a huge bargain and it isn't worth having to get really stingy with water to save a small proportion of that. I'm just very, very grateful that I've got all the clean water I need and sewerage is dealt with for me for less than a quid a day. I shower (every other day), don't flush the loo every time (and only ever use the short flush option), turn the tap off when I'm brushing my teeth etc etc, but I do water the garden quite a lot in summer (cans, not hosepipe though) and when I have a bath once a fortnight or so it's a deep and luxurious one. |
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| bagpuss |
what is your monthly cost without a meter? | ||||||
| cab |
Fourty quid or so. |
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| dottyspots |
Crikey - that seems quite a bit?
Ours is £21 (plus a twice yearly charge for sewage as we're under two different water companies, but that's about £10 each time). We're a family of 6 so chances are use much more water than you? |
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| alisjs |
I have saved loads more per month than they estimated I would. Never looked back. Go for it. | ||||||
| bagpuss |
we went from £50 to £15 a month |
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| Helen_A |
Every house before this one has been on a meter and we have never paid more than £12 a month (and that was in the last place after a price rise).
This house has no meter and they want nearly £500 a year.... Talking to their 'useage services' its been clear that they make some basic assumpsions about a households useage that are so far in excess of us (and probably most people here! ) For example they expect that you will have a loo cistern that uses 7L and that you will flush it at least 5 times a day for each person in the house. That your washing machine will use 65L a wash, and that you run it three times a week for each person in the household, plus an extra wash for bedlinen and another for towels. That you have a dishwasher that runs twice a day using 15L each time. If you indicate taking baths they assume you fill the bath each time and take one a day. etc etc Needless to say we are very confident that we will save lots of money by having a meter. But we won't get back any of the sum we've paid in the last 6 months that it has taken them to get round to fitting the meter, even should the meter clearly show that our useage is a lot lower than they are assuming... 
I'd say go for it Cab |
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| cab |
As your current place is rated presumably the same as ours was when the ratings were done, thats probably very telling. A heck of a saving for us; I just wish that whenever things changed and it became economic to do this, they'd told us (I last asked the water board years ago, they advised against as the cost would have been higher). |
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| marigold |
I read in a how-to-save-money article last night that a rule of thumb re water metering is that you are likely to save money if your house has more bedrooms than occupants. Though if you can save as much as Bagpuss it sounds like a no-brainer decision 
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| Treacodactyl |
How much does it cost to get a meter fitted? | ||||||
| marigold |
Nothing usually AFAIK. |
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| Treacodactyl |
Thanks, I thought there was a charge but having checked our provider there isn't. Also found this out which I didn't know: Households which have a swimming pool or use a garden sprinkler or unattended water device must have a meter fitted by law. Now, what does the 'average' punter think of them? Hopefully we'll be moving in a year or so and I wonder if most people would prefer a water meter not? |
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| Vic |
suddenly i feel strangely squalid - with two people in the house, we use the washing machine twice and very rarely three times a week (when OH brings back stuff from work to wash). Some people must spend their entire lives washing and drying things! 
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| marigold |
Interestingly, in light of the dishwasher or not debate, Southern Water's "would a meter benefit me?" calculator assumes you'll use MORE water if you have a dishwasher  . Looks like I'd save a few quid by having a meter, but I still prefer not to have my usage measured 'cos I know I'd then fret about it and it's bad enough fretting about the gas and electricity costs  .
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| cab |
Its free here, dunno about whether theres a charge with other water companies. |
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| Nick |
We use a huge, huge amount of water, and it's continually a relief to me that we don't have to worry about it (we're on a well). But, baths every day, dishwasher and washing machine, stock, kids. I'd hate to think about the cost if it wasn't free. I think for you Cab, Bagpuss' experience would be similar to yours, except, do you make an awful lot more wine than her? (and how much does a snail drink?) | ||||||
| cab |
Wine is the odd gallon of water here and there, its pretty minor really in terms of overall water use. I'll bet we use a lot more water washing vegetables from the plot than we ever do in homebrew. A snail drinks less than a hedgehog. Theres a bloke coming to assess our house to see if we can have a water meter, then the company will be getting in touch with us. Should be straight forward. |
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| Nick |
Yeah, but the snail is a resident, the hedgehog is only temporary. And watch Brian's consumption leap up in the summer months. | ||||||
| cab |
She's called Lazarus, and she does indeed get through more moisture in summer; not that she's drinking a great deal more, its just that theres more evaporation from her tank. |
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| dougal |
Re: Water meter
Extraordinary that they should give such advice, especially in view of your declared consumption habits... I thought they were supposed to be promoting them, and that the tarrifs were computed such that, for average consumption, one would be better off being metered (and rather better off if one was careful about consumption). In my area, metering is now compulsory - only place in the country so far. |
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| Behemoth |
You should get some of it. Water companies have 90 days to fit the meter from receiving the request. If they don't on the 90th day the unmeasured charges should be cancelled and any overpayment refunded (or credited to the account). Metered standing charges only should then be applied until the meter is fitted, technically free water and sewerage service. This is what the regulator says: "How quickly will the company fit a meter? Companies are required to specify in their charges schemes the timescale within which meters will be fitted. We consider that meters should be installed within three months of a customer's application. Where companies cannot meet the deadline for installation they should make provisions to ensure customers are no worse off, by allowing customers to pay bills that better reflect the charges customers might have paid had they been metered. Most companies will backdate metered charges to the date on which the meter should have been installed." If they don't do this, complain. |
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| Behemoth |
Re: Water meter
All households can opt for a meter to be installed, free of charge, in England and Wales. Tariffs are set so that the 'average customer' should pay the same whether on a meter or unmeasured. As you can imagine there is a bookful of calculations and estimates to get to that figure. It keeps the fella on my right in a job. My guess is CAb will half his bill with a meter - but that's just a guess, as are all estimates based on averages and surveys etc. |
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| cab |
Re: Water meter
In fairness, last time I asked was a couple of years back, it isn't impossible that pricing structures have changed such that while I wouldn't have been better off then, I would be now. |
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| cab |
Re: Water meter
Excellent, I think its well worth a punt to see what happens, thanks Behemoth. I gather that if it looks like I'll be paying more, I have a year to say 'no thanks, take the meter out'. At least thats what the nice lady on the phone told me. So I've probably got nothing (much) to lose here. |
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| Behemoth |
Re: Water meter
If it was a long time ago it may have included an installation charge. Also, the customers who opt for a meter are mostly those who will benefit financially. As more customer opt for meters the income 'lost' from them is divided up amongst those who remain on the unmeasured rates tariff. So as more pay less by meter the remainder pay more by rates. Total paid by everybody remains the same. |
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| bagpuss |
Re: Water meter
which presumably means that once everyone has meters those of us on meters bill will got up by some |
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| Behemoth |
Re: Water meter
Some allow you to revert others don't so check the small print. If you do revert, the meter will probably stay put, they'll just change the basis for billing. Cambridge Water says: "What if I have a meter fitted but find it is not beneficial to me? (I want to go back to rateable value) You may revert as long as: The occupier gives notice to CWC within: 12 months of the first day of charging by meter (having previously been charged at that property on an unmeasured basis); OR 30 days from receipt of the bill that shows 12 months consumption (i.e. normally the second or third bill) This is the first time that the occupier has asked to change back to unmetered charges at that property One of the consumers who occupied the premises at the time of the change to meter charges still occupies the premises at the time of notice of reversion (i.e. a new occupier cannot demand reversion to unmeasured charges) The customer opted to have the meter installed. Reversion is not available for properties that have been compulsorily metered Reversion of unmeasured charges takes effect from the day that the request to revert is received by Cambridge Water. " |
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| sean |
Aren't they legally obliged to uproot any plants in front of your property when they install the meter?
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| Nick |
They are, but there are two ways they sub contract this out. Firstly, they can have the council pull shrubs up without checking. This is the most common way forward, but is generally seen as less 'personal'. For those customers requiring the touchy feely approach, a close member of the customers family, say, perhaps, his girlfriend, is given a strimmer and told to Let Loose.
I hear the effects can be quite striking. |
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| cab |
Wow... The small print makes it seem somehow entirely fair and reasonable. What a rarity
Cheers again, Behemoth. |
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| Helen_A |
Thats OK - we run it 4 times on a bad week (usually its twice, plus a linen wash maybe once a fortnight) and there are 5 of us! I always feel squalid when washing comes up on parenting forum (usually on nappy forums, lol, when peeps are insisting that they don't have time to wash nappies!) and I see how little wear people put their clothes to before washing them! For some it seems like the clothing just has to leave the drawer and it is grabbed and washed! Mind you - I have recently resorted to going through DD1 and 2s laundry basket before washing things as they are rather prone to leaving 'tidying up' by putting every visible scrap of clothing into the laundry whether they have worn it or not! Helen_A |
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| Helen_A |
We're doing this - but as they somehow 'lost' our application form around 89 days from our sending it and thus failed to be able to come and survey (we know they must have had it though as someone called, made an appt and then it was cancelled! after which communication ceased until we yelled a bit...) we are buggered! I didn't send the original letter recorded or tape the phone call where they arranged to survey so ..um um um etc. Helen_A |
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| Behemoth |
You've got them - they have to record and keep appointments (or pay compensation for not turning up) or have a reason for not keeping it, e.g. cancelled by you or them for a valid reason. Complain in writing and if they claim they have no record of your appointment cast aspersions on their character in the light of some other companies fiddling their figures relating to customer service measures that they report to the regulator . This might make them a bit twitchy. If you really want to go to town ask them how they responded to Ofwat's letter MD220 on recording and reporting the keeping of appointments. http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/aptrix/ofwat/publish.nsf/Content/md220
if you don't get a satisfactory reply contact this lot: http://www.ccwater.org.uk/ |
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| Nick |
And be sure to mention Behemoth's name. |