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Woodburner

What can I shoot with an air rifle?

Which of these can I shoot with an air rifle? Rabbits, squirrels, magpies, pigeons, and pheasant, oh and muntjac, if they are good eating.

Also, what are the limitations on where I could shoot them, and are there any limitations on when, for any of them?
marigold

I dunno what you can shoot with an air-rifle, all I ever shot with one was the heads off daffodils (my mother was not amused) Laughing .

Sorry Embarassed , helpful person will be along soon...
tahir

Muntac with an air rifle? I can't imagine there are any out there powerful enough to kill something that large.
Mary-Jane

tahir wrote:
Muntjac with an air rifle? I can't imagine there are any out there powerful enough to kill something that large.


Good God no. You would never shoot Muntjac with an air rifle. You would only wound them and leave them in agony. I wouldn't even use a shotgun personally. Brown Bear will be along later with some sensible advice no doubt.
gil

Re: What can I shoot with an air rifle?

Woodburner wrote:
Which of these can I shoot with an air rifle? Rabbits, squirrels, magpies, pigeons, and pheasant, oh and muntjac, if they are good eating.

Also, what are the limitations on where I could shoot them, and are there any limitations on when, for any of them?


Muntjac - no, too big
Rabbits, squirrels, magpies, pigeon, pheasant - yes, BUT

effective range of an air rifle is 25-30yds
Therefore you have to get quite close to them to be sure of getting a good, clean shot.
You also have to be quite a good shot to hit them when they are moving (running, flying)

Squirrels spend a lot of time in trees (possibility of ricochet off branches/trunk if you miss). Do NOT shoot red squirrels.
Magpie - I wouldn't eat this unless I were desperate, so unless you have a serious problem with them as pests, prolly not worth it
Rabbits - more likely to be on the move at dawn / dusk, though obviously around at other times. You will need to sit downwind and very still for quite a long while, possibly in cold, rain, or a cloud of midges.
Pheasant - often slow-moving, slow-witted. Large-ish. Perfect quarry.
Pigeons (wood) - smaller; don't spend as much time on the ground as pheasant. Tree comments apply.

Shoot where : on your own land; on someone else's land with the landowners permission

When :
pheasant season Oct - Jan in Scotland; Oct - Dec (I think) in England. They're a bit small earlier in the season, so best left till start of Nov.
Rabbits, squirrels : all year

Don't shoot things in their breeding season, nor when they have young to care for.
vegplot

Extract from the BASC website.

BIRDS: (covered by the open general licences) crows, rooks, jackdaws, magpies, jays, woodpigeon, collared doves, feral pigeons.

MAMMALS: brown rats, grey squirrels, stoats, mink and rabbits

All birds are protected, and although there are seasons when you can legally shoot game, and some wildfowl, they are not suitable quarry for air rifles. However, as long as you are complying with firearms law, you can shoot certain pest bird species. These are covered by open general licences which, in simple terms, mean you can shoot the birds listed, provided you have the landowner’s permission and provided you are doing it for one of the reasons allowed by the licence.

These reasons include:
• to protect crops
• to protect game and wildlife
• to protect public health or safety

BASC recommends that anyone wishing to take bird pest species should read BASC’s advice on general licences - click here.

You can shoot mammal pests at any time provided you have the landowner’s permission. Air rifles are suitable for: brown rats, grey squirrels, stoats, mink and rabbits.

http://www.basc.org.uk/content/airriflepractice
Rob R

Barn doors. Laughing
KILLITnGRILLIT

I would have to say that you need to hit a 2p size target 4 times out of 5 on a regular basis before you step out into the world of killing animals and birds.

Muntjac........hell no!




.
mochyn

Rob R wrote:
Barn doors. Laughing


Not all of us.

Actually, I'm quite good with an air pistol.
mochyn

KILLITnGRILLIT wrote:
I would have to say that you need to hit a 2p size target 4 times out of 5 on a regular basis ...


At what distance?
Brownbear

You have to get head shots with an air rifle. If you just have a vast number of bunnies, and want them dead, a .17HMR will kill instantly with a central chest shot, which makes lamping them at night easier.

I would only use an air rifle when considerations of safety rule out all other arms.
vegplot

I shot a rabbit in the head with an air rifle just once. First and last time. It didn't die as quickly as I would have wanted and I dare say, for a short while, the bunny thought the same.
Jonnyboy

vegplot wrote:
I shot a rabbit in the head with an air rifle just once. First and last time. It didn't die as quickly as I would have wanted and I dare say, for a short while, the bunny thought the same.


With any firearm there is the risk of wounding. Being able to quickly despatch a wounded animal is an essential skill to learn when shooting any live quarry. IMHO.
vegplot

Jonnyboy wrote:
vegplot wrote:
I shot a rabbit in the head with an air rifle just once. First and last time. It didn't die as quickly as I would have wanted and I dare say, for a short while, the bunny thought the same.


With any firearm there is the risk of wounding. Being able to quickly despatch a wounded animal is an essential skill to learn when shooting any live quarry. IMHO.


When I reached 15 I bought a shotgun and used that instead.
Brownbear

Jonnyboy wrote:
vegplot wrote:
I shot a rabbit in the head with an air rifle just once. First and last time. It didn't die as quickly as I would have wanted and I dare say, for a short while, the bunny thought the same.


With any firearm there is the risk of wounding. Being able to quickly despatch a wounded animal is an essential skill to learn when shooting any live quarry. IMHO.


True - but the less energy a projectile delivers, the less likely it is to kill outright. A .17HMR bullet only weighs 17 grains, not much more than a .22 air rifle pellet, but if fired at clay or wet earth will blow out a hole the size of a grapefruit, whilst an airgun pellet will just disappear into the ground.
whitelegg1

If you are looking to eat your quarry.

Wood Pigeons
Collared Doves
Crows

Squirrels
Rabbits
Hares Borderline......not considered to be appropriate quarry for an air rifle, but not illegal either...(also be careful as thay have different restrictions to rabbits.....

If you can find a pheasant at the right time of the year that does not move its head arround too much, and you have the appropirate permission from the landowner to do so.....then pheasants.....although you may be entering a grey legal area, as ther are some contradicting laws regarding shooting birds with firearms (and yes an air rifle IS a firearm (even a sub 12ftlb one)) especially if it is a multi-shot variant... The law was NOT written to accomodate modern air rifles, and it probably never will be!! Rolling Eyes

Again as always, the BASC is a good source of helpful information....I even got them to put me help me with a very grey air rifle area....resulting in the disposal of the air rifle!!! Much to my displeasure, but I wasn't prepared to use it and loose more, if they decide that in fact it WAS a section 5 firearm Shocked Section 5 includes sub-machine guns and rocket launchers!!!!!!!!!
I also spoke to the chief fireamrs officer of Essex, even he didn't have a definative answer....'sounds OK, but don't get caught shooting bus shelters up!' was his advice Wink

Pete Smile
Jonnyboy

Brownbear wrote:

True - but the less energy a projectile delivers, the less likely it is to kill outright. A .17HMR bullet only weighs 17 grains, not much more than a .22 air rifle pellet, but if fired at clay or wet earth will blow out a hole the size of a grapefruit, whilst an airgun pellet will just disappear into the ground.


Agree. I was making more of a general point. Regardless of the weapon used (which should generally be the best one for the quarry or type of shooting) knowing how to despatch quarry is an essential task. I've seen people despatch a wounded pigeon by shooting it again....
Brownbear

Jonnyboy wrote:
Brownbear wrote:

True - but the less energy a projectile delivers, the less likely it is to kill outright. A .17HMR bullet only weighs 17 grains, not much more than a .22 air rifle pellet, but if fired at clay or wet earth will blow out a hole the size of a grapefruit, whilst an airgun pellet will just disappear into the ground.


Agree. I was making more of a general point. Regardless of the weapon used (which should generally be the best one for the quarry or type of shooting) knowing how to despatch quarry is an essential task. I've seen people despatch a wounded pigeon by shooting it again....


There was one occasion when I shot a rabbit in the back of the head with a .22 - it went flying and got up again. I shot it again, same thing, and again. Then it jumped up and ran to its hole, dropping about a foot short. When I cleaned and skinned it, I found that it was shot in the head, neck and through the heart Shocked

It was either a cyborg rabbit or related to Rasputin. I have a witness to this.
RichardW

Just to put the cat in with the pigeons. There are some air rifles that are more than capable of taking munties, even wild boar but you wont get one in this country. I am fairly sure you cant shoot game (IE pheasants) with an air rifle.


Man shoot boar with air gun


Justme
KILLITnGRILLIT

mochyn wrote:
KILLITnGRILLIT wrote:
I would have to say that you need to hit a 2p size target 4 times out of 5 on a regular basis ...


At what distance?


Doesn`t matter, if you can`t hit that at 20 yds then you hunt at less than that, if you can do it at 60yds(highly unlikely unless a FAC weapon) then that would be OK.

As a generalisation 30yds for a full power, circa 11-11.99 ftlbs airrifle.




.
Gervase

I have to confess I was hugely impressed with the .17 HMR - it would seem to be the ideal general purpose rifle for the smallholder (and with less recoil than a spring-powered air rifle).
RichardW

Me too.

It was the one I was most looking forward to shooting.

Does it have any down sides compared to the .22?

Justme
Treacodactyl

Justme wrote:
Does it have any down sides compared to the .22?


I got the impression from some people that it might be harder to get on your FAC depending on the type of land you'll be shooting on? Some people also suggest the bullets are more affected by wind. BB, any truth in that or is it just ill informed rubbish?
whitelegg1

.17Hmr vs .22LR

Downsides....you cannot get a semi-auto in 17Hmr in UK. (However the semi-autos are not meant to be as accurate as a bolt action ((unless you spend ALOT of money!)))

You are more likely to get meat damage with a 17Hmr. BUt for vermin control, if you don't want to eat your quarry, then your range envelope is much bigger with a 17Hmr.

Th 17Hmr is ALOT louder than a moderated sub-sonic .22LR! My .22 is virtually silent, the loudest noise is the impact on the rabbits head.

Bullets (a bad word as they are cartridges as well, but you know what I mean!) are significantly more expensive with the 17HMR.

Is the 17Hmr on its way out, with the reintroduction of the 5mm rimfire??? (That one will put the purr purr amongst the coo coos!)

The choice of rifles with the 17HMR is rather limited. Ruger, CZ, Marlin, Anschutz, Savage ((have I missed any??), they tend to have just one model per manufacturer. .22s are tooooo many to list.

Well thats some thoughts to be getting on with!
One thing I would say.....
Being able to shoot out well past 100 yards, is all well and good..... next time you are out in a field....work out how far 100 yards is, then try to imagine spotting a rabbit at 100 yards... it isn't very easy. Unless you are Steve Austin...ddddddddd Shocked


Pete Smile
RichardW

Wind & gravity all need time to affect the path of the projectile. As the hmr is so much faster than a .22 its less afected by gravity, its also smaller so the wind get less grip on it but its mass is lighter so its easier to move it. Or thats what all the info on other forums seems to say.


Justme
gil

I was impressed with the 17HMR too, and would like to try one out again at some point with a view to getting a FAC.
Brownbear

I was a devotee of the .22, which (in an expensively custom-built and very accurate semi-auto version) is my night bunny gun with IR sight, but I took to the .17HMR for a number of reasons.

It has a very flat trajectory - from 50 to 100 yards there is no bullet drop to speak of, whilst the slower and heavier .22 will drop several inches over the same distance. This saves time calculating range and holdover. It is also a tack driver - yes it does more meat damage, but with a good scope I can get head-shots at up to 120 yards. This virtually blows their heads off, ther's no damage to the eating meat but it kills first time every time.

If straightforwardly doing pest control, when just killing is the job and there's less worry about meat damage, a chest shot (quicker to acquire the target) with a .22 frequently doesn't kill. A double-tap is standard. One hit to the chest area with a .17HMR kills first time, every time, and at greater range. Yes, the bullet crack is noisier and spooks the bunnies, but no more, in my experience, than the sound of the impact of a .22 on a rabbit does.

The .22 is much more likely to ricochet, being slow and of lead. The fast, light, frangible .17 round disintegrates on impact, even in a flinty field. The greater range makes them useable against crows, magpies without having to decoy them in. The greater power makes them suitable against fox up to 120 yards.

Yes, rain and strong wind can divert the bullet. If you commonly go out shooting bunnies in the teeth of a howlng gale and the peeing-down rain, it's probably not the round for you. It's not much different to a .22 for that, though, because although the round is half the mass of a .22, it's travelling at about three times the speed.
vegplot

Another downside of the .17 HMR is the higher barrel wear compared to a .22. The .17 HMR bullet is jacketed (copper) whilst the .22 is lead. However, for all practical purposes this isn't going to matter much unless you're shooting several 1000 rounds for this to become a problem.

If I was in vermin control the .17 HMR would be my weapon of choice. If I'm plinking and target shooting I would favour the .22LR. In essence if you out in the field, like BB, you'd have a selection of guns to cover each situtation you're likely to find yourself in, choosing your gun for the task.

I dare say BB could provide a list of half a dozen guns that would cover most field situations.

Here's my choice:

12 bore shotgun
.410 shotgun
6.5x55 rifle (or similar)
.17 HMR
.22 LR
whitelegg1

Ones to add to that list might be.....
A moderated shotgun....long and heavy, but very useful for what it does.....
A .22 centerfire rifle (.22hornet(less so), .222, .223, .22/250) for use on small deer and fox. What you go for depends on budjet, and whether or not you would homeload! Which cuts down the cost alot, but is obviously a skill that you don't want to get wrong Shocked )
Also there is .22 FAC Air....obviously this needs to be on ticket, and has restrictions on use. But has less of the danger from shotting up into trees that cartridge based rifles have.(ie if you miss, how far is the bullet going to go, and what is it going to do when it comes back down to earth!!)
Possible list:
.177 Air , very quiet and very accurate
.22 FAC Air not so quiet, hard hitting & longer range than sub 12 ftlbs.
.22LR moderated, very quiet good up to 100 yards. (If you're a better shot than me)
.17HMR moderated (might as well moderate it!) much longer range than .22 hardest hitting rimfire...
.223 for small deer and fox (probably the cheapest ammo of the .22s)
Something large for the bigger deer!
Semi-auto 12g for pigeons and crows. Less recoil than a SBS!!


Budget list.

.177 Air, use anywhere it is safe to get a PCP as there are effectively recoiless. Very accurate out to 30 yards (and a bit). Very good for practicing, cheap cheap cheap ammo. Headshots on Rats, Squirrels, Rabbits, Crows, Pigeons, Magpies.
.22LR cheapest rimfire, ammo the cheapest. Go for a bolt action, moderated. Good starter into FAC. Shouldn't freek out your FEO!! Practice practice practice now before your shooting something that hits your pocket every time your pull the trigger!!
12g SBS or O/U, something russian S/H £100 approx. Will do for pigeons and crows on the wing...and opportunistic fox at suitable range, with suitable cartridges.
Doesn't cover you for deer of any sort, but perhaps that is not a good quarry to start on.......unless it is your land and you have a problem!!

Pete Smile
vegplot

12 bore shotgun
.410 shotgun
.223
6.5x55 rifle (or similar)
.17 HMR
.22 LR

Wink
Treacodactyl

vegplot wrote:
12 bore shotgun
.410 shotgun
.223
6.5x55 rifle (or similar)
.17 HMR
.22 LR

Wink


Plus a large gun cabinet, a few scopes and plenty of land to shoot over. Shocked Laughing What would happen if you have wild boar about?

I know a fair bit will depend on what and where you're shooting but what would be the minimum? Although overkill, literally, but would a .223 be a suitable long range bunny gun for pest control? An idea of the cost of ammunition would be useful as well.

I personally like the idea of a .22 spring air rifle as it can sit around, is very cheap to run and I've often had bunnies, grey squirrels and pigeons within 10m or so when out walking so it could be useful to get something for the pot once in a while.
Brownbear

vegplot wrote:
12 bore shotgun
.410 shotgun
.223
6.5x55 rifle (or similar)
.17 HMR
.22 LR

Wink


plus .308 Win. for Red deer and boar.
vegplot

[quote="Treacodactyl"]Plus a large gun cabinet, a few scopes and plenty of land to shoot over.
Quote:


Of course.


[quote="Treacodactyl"]What would happen if you have wild boar about?


A larger calibre might be required such as a .308 or 7x57(?) for instance.

Treacodactyl wrote:
but would a .223 be a suitable long range bunny gun for pest control?


I doubt very much whether you'd get a .223 on the basis of rabbit shooting alone. Be wary of shooting anything at long range as you are less aware of what is behind the target (never shoot at something unless it has a good backstop) and you're less accurate the further away you are. .223 bullets can travel a long way.

Treacodactyl wrote:

I personally like the idea of a .22 spring air rifle as it can sit around, is very cheap to run and I've often had bunnies, grey squirrels and pigeons within 10m or so when out walking so it could be useful to get something for the pot once in a while.


Be wary of shooting birds they are covered by general licences. Quoting BASC "By definition you do not need to apply for a general licence but you are required by law to abide by the terms and conditions of each licence. Thus, it is extremely important to be aware of the terms and conditions relevant to your situation."

If you plan to do any sort of field shooting consult the BASC site first and better still become a member.
Brownbear

The Police would not give you authorisation for a .223 if you only had rabbits but no fox. They wouldn't give you a .17HMR if you said it was for fox and not rabbits. These rules were laid down by some bod in the Home Office who'd never fired a rifle in his or her life. If you have bunnies and the odd fox, get a .17; if you have swarms of fox, get a .223 or even a .22-250.

The cost of .223 ammunition would make it a most unsuitable weapon for rabbit control.
Treacodactyl

Brownbear wrote:
The Police would not give you authorisation for a .223 if you only had rabbits but no fox. They wouldn't give you a .17HMR if you said it was for fox and not rabbits. These rules were laid down by some bod in the Home Office who'd never fired a rifle in his or her life. If you have bunnies and the odd fox, get a .17; if you have swarms of fox, get a .223 or even a .22-250.

The cost of .223 ammunition would make it a most unsuitable weapon for rabbit control.


I wouldn't be after a .223 just for bunnies, I would want to eat them after all, and I doubt I would have a real need for one. I was also under the impression that it would be easier to get hold a .22LR than a .17HMR and that can depend on your local police?

What I have thought about is would you be able to apply for a .243 FAC for fox control and then once you have your rifle take a DSC1 and use it for deer?

VP, I'm reasonably aware of the open licences and I've been a member of BASC for a few years now. Personally I'll be shooting over my small holding once I get it so it'll mainly be for pest control anyway and anything that can be eaten will be. Magpie fritters anyone? Shocked
vegplot

Just to clarify, for those who may be confused by the terminology. Ammunition is often quoted by just by it's calibre (bullet diameter in inches or mm) e.g. .223, .17 .22 etc.

For instance the .223 round has the same calibre as the .22 LR(actually .223 inches) but dramatically different 'performance'.

.22LR energy 104-141 ft.lb
.223 energy 1,080-2,750 ft.lb

(source: wikipedia)
vegplot

Treacodactyl wrote:
Magpie fritters anyone? Shocked


Glorious Smile
Brownbear

Treacodactyl wrote:


I wouldn't be after a .223 just for bunnies, I would want to eat them after all, and I doubt I would have a real need for one. I was also under the impression that it would be easier to get hold a .22LR than a .17HMR and that can depend on your local police?


Well, it would depend on the police, but they'd have to be operating on some pretty odd criteria to allow .22 and not .17HMR, which is in some ways a less risky calibre - more accurate and far less likely to ricochet. If they took such a line, BASCs legal and firearms depts should be able to sort them out.

Treacodactyl wrote:

What I have thought about is would you be able to apply for a .243 FAC for fox control and then once you have your rifle take a DSC1 and use it for deer?


Yes, if you have 'need' for a fox rifle you could get it. You could also have it conditioned for deer. Not sure you actually need a DSC1 - I've seen what they do and I don't rate it very highly. The marksmanship requirement is very low, though the safety is good. Apart from that, you learn to memorise closed season dates - useful if they don't change and you're unable, for some strange reason, to look things up before going out stalking.
Treacodactyl

Brownbear wrote:
Treacodactyl wrote:

What I have thought about is would you be able to apply for a .243 FAC for fox control and then once you have your rifle take a DSC1 and use it for deer?


Yes, if you have 'need' for a fox rifle you could get it. You could also have it conditioned for deer. Not sure you actually need a DSC1 - I've seen what they do and I don't rate it very highly. The marksmanship requirement is very low, though the safety is good. Apart from that, you learn to memorise closed season dates - useful if they don't change and you're unable, for some strange reason, to look things up before going out stalking.


Interesting, thanks. I'll give that some more thought nearer the time. What training would you suggest of someone wanted to shoot the odd deer for forestry protection and the table? Or would you suggest getting a professional in?
Brownbear

Treacodactyl wrote:
Brownbear wrote:
Treacodactyl wrote:

What I have thought about is would you be able to apply for a .243 FAC for fox control and then once you have your rifle take a DSC1 and use it for deer?


Yes, if you have 'need' for a fox rifle you could get it. You could also have it conditioned for deer. Not sure you actually need a DSC1 - I've seen what they do and I don't rate it very highly. The marksmanship requirement is very low, though the safety is good. Apart from that, you learn to memorise closed season dates - useful if they don't change and you're unable, for some strange reason, to look things up before going out stalking.


Interesting, thanks. I'll give that some more thought nearer the time. What training would you suggest of someone wanted to shoot the odd deer for forestry protection and the table? Or would you suggest getting a professional in?


I'd suggest doing the safe weapons handling course, or going to Budleigh Farm (where the Forestry Commission people are trained), and getting a stalking qualification, that mostly has to do with the important bits - marksmanship and safe handling/choosing backstops - for far less money. Of course, you can always call in a pro if you don't want the hassle. I'd suggest not getting 'someone you know' to do it as unless you know them very well and that they are safe, all sorts of things can go wrong.
vegplot

Brownbear wrote:
Treacodactyl wrote:

What I have thought about is would you be able to apply for a .243 FAC for fox control and then once you have your rifle take a DSC1 and use it for deer?


Yes, if you have 'need' for a fox rifle you could get it. You could also have it conditioned for deer. Not sure you actually need a DSC1 - I've seen what they do and I don't rate it very highly. The marksmanship requirement is very low, though the safety is good. Apart from that, you learn to memorise closed season dates - useful if they don't change and you're unable, for some strange reason, to look things up before going out stalking.


I put down my reason for the 7x57 as booking for a paid stalking shoot and included the invoice as evidence. The Firearms Officer checked the booking and the land just to make sure and granted the variation on my FAC. I went on to do my DSC1 which was a another valid reason I could have used. However, I have been warned that if I don't use said rifle for intended purpose I could have it removed from my FAC, but that is a condition applied to club shooting as well.
RichardW

I thought you needed your DSC1 to supply deer meat to people?

Justme
Woodburner

Looking up this thread for some info, I realised I never said thanks for all the contirbutions. It's rather belated I know but thanks all the same. Smile

Oh, and I was never considering eating magpies! Shocked Laughing
batman4435

22

i have a air rifle i was wonderin can u shoot it in ur bacg garden with out be in done as my garden is big it 20m long and 10m wide thanks
vegplot

Re: 22

batman4435 wrote:
i have a air rifle i was wonderin can u shoot it in ur bacg garden with out be in done as my garden is big it 20m long and 10m wide thanks


As long as the air rifle is within legal limits (12ft.lbs muzzle energy) and the pellets do not travel outside your boundary then it's not a problem.

Make sure there is a suitable backstop and a supervising adult if youngsters are shooting then you shouldn't have a problem.

Be safe and a good neighbour.
Brownbear

RichardW wrote:
I thought you needed your DSC1 to supply deer meat to people?

Justme


No. You need to 'demonstrate that you are competent to handle a carcass' which could mean just knowing how to do it. Some police forces try to insist on a DSC before permitting a stalking rifle, but they have no lawful authority to do so and can be challenged in court.

The people who make a fortune out of training courses - BASC principally, no longer an organisation of shooters but a self-perpetuating oligarchy of administrators (other than their legal/firearms dept who are mustard) - try to tell you that you need all sorts of courses, but you don't. They may be useful, and the safety aspects are good, but the marksmanship element is rotten.

When you can group 4 shots in a 2" circle at 100 yards, choose a proper backstop and know how to handle your rifle safely, you are ready for the field.
RichardW

Ah I see.

Just been looking up the 06 regs with the 08 updates. It seems that if its to the end user you are ok but to a AGHE you need to be trained in inspection of the animal.

It says this about a trained person

Quote:
7.
TRAINED PERSON
Management of food risk in the wild game industry begins with the individual hunter. He/she should always be on the lookout for abnormal behaviour before killing and the scope for environmental contamination as well as any abnormalities found after killing.
A ‘trained person’ is someone who has sufficient knowledge of the pathology of wild game, and of the production and handling of wild game meat after hunting, to undertake an initial examination of wild game on the spot.
Trained persons need to be able to demonstrate to approved game handling establishment (AGHE) operators and enforcement officers that they have the knowledge and skill to carry out the initial examination required.

Where there is a requirement for a trained person to be present, it is still the responsibility of individual hunters to report abnormal behaviour before killing or suspected environmental contamination to the trained person;

Where individual hunters are supplying direct to local retailers or to final consumers under the primary producer exemption or the hunter exemption, if they are not able to draw on the specific expertise of a trained person, they should be particularly vigilant;

Where wild game carcases are being supplied to approved game handling establishments (AGHEs) or where certain retail exemptions are being claimed there is a specific requirement for a trained person;

If the trained person is unexpectedly unavailable, carcases can still be sent to the AGHE but, in the case of large wild game, certain viscera that a trained person would remove must accompany it (see below for details).


Then goes on to quantify what training is accepted

Quote:
TRAINING OPTIONS
A number of training options are available to meet the requirements of Regulation 853/2004:

Industry-based training and assessment
Experienced gamekeepers and/or a member of the National Gamekeepers’ Organisation (NGO) with experience can attend the courses run by the NGO. These courses introduce the requirements of Regulation 853/2004 and will provide practical solutions to help meet the needs of the legislation. At the end of the training there is an end-of-course assessment and, providing he required mark is achieved, an NGO certificate will be issued as proof of competence.
In Scotland contact the Scottish Gamekeepers Association or the British Association for Shooting and Conservation.

Vocationally Related Qualification (VRQ) Wild Game Meat Hygiene training and assessment
This nationally recognised qualification has been developed by Lantra (the Sector Skills Council). It is currently being offered via a number of different training organisations around the UK including BASC and many land-based training providers and agricultural colleges. The training introduces the legislation and prepares trainees for an VRQ assessment that is based on a multiple-choice question paper and leads to a certificate in Wild Game Meat Hygiene endorsed as large game, small game or both, according to the papers taken. Certification is offered via two national awarding bodies, Lantra Awards or the Royal Society for the Promotion of Health (RSPH).

Deer Management training and assessment
Those who wish to start deer-stalking are likely to undertake the DSC Level 1 Certificate. From December 2005 the requirements of Regulation 853/2004 became an integral part of the DSC Level 1, so achieving the DSC Level 1 certificate from that date provides proof that holders have the knowledge required by the legislation for large wild game.

1 October 2008 version
11

Other relevant professional training
Operators of AGHEs may also assume that doctors, veterinary surgeons, environmental health practitioners, meat inspectors and others who possess qualifications in pathology or meat hygiene have the necessary knowledge.


All from this pdf HERE
batman4435

Re: 22

batman4435 wrote:
i have a air rifle i was wonderin can u shoot it in ur bacg garden with out be in done as my garden is big it 20m long and 10m wide thanks
batman4435

Re: 22

vegplot wrote:
batman4435 wrote:
i have a air rifle i was wonderin can u shoot it in ur bacg garden with out be in done as my garden is big it 20m long and 10m wide thanks


As long as the air rifle is within legal limits (12ft.lbs muzzle energy) and the pellets do not travel outside your boundary then it's not a problem.

Make sure there is a suitable backstop and a supervising adult if youngsters are shooting then you shouldn't have a problem.

Be safe and a good neighbour.
t
hanks vegplot ..i have a smk19 22 air rifle i have no idia how to get the plastic site of the end of the barral as im thinking of getting a silencer but dont want to brake it of and i dont no what the ft.lb is im sure its under 12 do u no how or dose any one no as im not sure if u pull it of i tryed but didnt work and twisted it but im not sure thanks
Brownbear

RichardW wrote:
Ah I see.

Just been looking up the 06 regs with the 08 updates. It seems that if its to the end user you are ok but to a AGHE you need to be trained in inspection of the animal.

It says this about a trained person

Quote:
7.
TRAINED PERSON


Trained persons need to be able to demonstrate to approved game handling establishment (AGHE) operators and enforcement officers that they have the knowledge and skill to carry out the initial examination required.



In other words, you don't need to produce a qualification but to demonstrate knowledge. If a qualification was compulsory it would say "Trained persons need to hold one of the following certificates..." The Invaders from Planet Peakedcap haven't quite turned shooting into yet another offshoot of the Bottom Inspection industry yet, though I am sure it's only a matter of time.
vegplot

Re: 22

batman4435 wrote:
vegplot wrote:
batman4435 wrote:
i have a air rifle i was wonderin can u shoot it in ur bacg garden with out be in done as my garden is big it 20m long and 10m wide thanks


As long as the air rifle is within legal limits (12ft.lbs muzzle energy) and the pellets do not travel outside your boundary then it's not a problem.

Make sure there is a suitable backstop and a supervising adult if youngsters are shooting then you shouldn't have a problem.

Be safe and a good neighbour.
t
hanks vegplot ..i have a smk19 22 air rifle i have no idia how to get the plastic site of the end of the barral as im thinking of getting a silencer but dont want to brake it of and i dont no what the ft.lb is im sure its under 12 do u no how or dose any one no as im not sure if u pull it of i tryed but didnt work and twisted it but im not sure thanks


Take it to your local gun dealer. It's not worth damaging the gun for the sake of putting on a moderator.
RichardW

Its an SMK.

Its worth does not justify a gunsmiths charges.
Its a plinker.
vegplot

RichardW wrote:
Its an SMK.

Its worth does not justify a gunsmiths charges.
Its a plinker.


Gunsmith? Gun dealer, get a decent air rifle that warrants a moderator.
batman4435

it may be a plinker but it ft is just under 12 ft.lb so i coulds go hunting if i wanted but not my thing lol shooting targets to train if i did go hunting n the silencer just to get a little les sound out of it as i no some one thats go the same smk 19 n he use one with a silencer n hunting he can kill a rabbit 100m away so thats not bad with a clean head shot but i just use mine for fun am only 19 lol but any one got any ideas on ma next air rifle under 250 ponds check out this link richardw http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.emmacustomrifles.co.uk/Pictures/Guns/IMG_20070203_0017_Mod%2520SMK%2520Z19.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.emmacustomrifles.co.uk/catAIRGUNS.htm&usg=__khY8nvt7V smk z19 just under the legal limet thats the one i have
RichardW

Either

a, he cant tell how far 100m is
b, is power level is much higher than 12ftlb
c, he is bragging

My PCP will put pellet on pellet at35m at 100m I would be lucky to hit the target at all.

I have a prog that calcs that the terminal velocity / impact power at that distance is far to low. Plus you would need to be aiming over 80 inches high to allow for the drop (.22) or 54inches for .177 of average weight in both cases at full 12ftlb.

Oh & for safety remember that at the right angle a pellet can travel over 400m (but only has 0.8ftlb of energy left, most of which is from gravity pulling it back down)

With a springer it is the action that makes most of the sound.

Richard
batman4435

RichardW wrote:
Either

a, he cant tell how far 100m is
b, is power level is much higher than 12ftlb
c, he is bragging

My PCP will put pellet on pellet at35m at 100m I would be lucky to hit the target at all.

I have a prog that calcs that the terminal velocity / impact power at that distance is far to low. Plus you would need to be aiming over 80 inches high to allow for the drop (.22) or 54inches for .177 of average weight in both cases at full 12ftlb.

Oh & for safety remember that at the right angle a pellet can travel over 400m (but only has 0.8ftlb of energy left, most of which is from gravity pulling it back down)

With a springer it is the action that makes most of the sound.

Richard
he must of bin bragin lol iv not even had mine 2 days but u got any i dear on ma next air rifle but not a co2 so is it work getin a silencer even just for a little bit of sound gone as the more sound i take of the better
vegplot

A decent air rifle costs more than a decent .22LR, is this something you have considered. Obviously you can't plink with a .22LR in your back garden but if you rabbit control is your thing...

You'd be lucky to get accurate head shots even with a.22LR at 100m. It's fine out to round 75m but the bullet drops considerably after that and you'd need range accurately to be able to place head shots reliably. My CZ452 shoots fairly level between 25 and 50 metres but expect a 300mm drop at 100 metres and that's 10x more powerful than a non licenced air rifle.
batman4435

vegplot wrote:
A decent air rifle costs more than a decent .22LR, is this something you have considered. Obviously you can't plink with a .22LR in your back garden but if you rabbit control is your thing...

You'd be lucky to get accurate head shots even with a.22LR at 100m. It's fine out to round 75m but the bullet drops considerably after that and you'd need range accurately to be able to place head shots reliably. My CZ452 shoots fairly level between 25 and 50 metres but expect a 300mm drop at 100 metres and that's 10x more powerful than a non licenced air rifle.
ye if i get a new one i will be use on ma mates dad farm cos my one can shoot 20m with a scope a shot a 1 pence and i was glad... the first time i missed i had kitchen work seface is it went into the second one n its not the cheap stuf lol solid chip bored well mine is the smk z19 http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.emmacustomrifles.co.uk/Pictures/Guns/IMG_20070203_0017_Mod%2520SMK%2520Z19.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.emmacustomrifles.co.uk/catAIRGUNS.htm&usg=__khY8nvt7V how far u thik thats good for
SheepShed

batman4435 wrote:
well mine is the smk z19 ... how far u thik thats good for

About as far as you can throw it Laughing
You can get a decent secondhand springer and scope for £200 - it's accuracy that matters, not power.
You'll need to practice on targets so you can reliably put shots into a 1" group at around 30 yards, from a variety of positions, and practice your fieldcraft so you can get near enough to the bunnies without spooking them.
At the end of the day it's not the gun that matters, it's the person shooting it.
By the way, is there any chance of you posting in the English language ? It would make your posts much easier to read and increase the chances of people continuing to offer helpful advice.
batman4435

SheepShed wrote:
batman4435 wrote:
well mine is the smk z19 ... how far u thik thats good for

About as far as you can throw it Laughing
You can get a decent secondhand springer and scope for £200 - it's accuracy that matters, not power.
You'll need to practice on targets so you can reliably put shots into a 1" group at around 30 yards, from a variety of positions, and practice your fieldcraft so you can get near enough to the bunnies without spooking them.
At the end of the day it's not the gun that matters, it's the person shooting it.
By the way, is there any chance of you posting in the English language ? It would make your posts much easier to read and increase the chances of people continuing to offer helpful advice.
it is English lol just short i did it like that cause i was in a hurry lol
SheepShed

batman4435 wrote:
it is English lol just short i did it like that cause i was in a hurry lol

Good for you! Far too many people waste valuable time on trivia like spelling and punctuation. If someone's too thick to work out what "i was glad... the first time i missed i had kitchen work seface is it went into the second one n its not the cheap stuf lol solid chip bored" means, that's their problem isn't it ?
batman4435

.

u lost me i no im not a very good speller . but hay im dyslexik lol how i got that word google it amazing how im of the topic of good air rifle to buy but still cheap and fun to use ...
SheepShed

My bad m8 Very Happy

If you're serious about getting into air gunning and hunting then people will be pleased to support you, it's just that old crusties like me see people using text speak (txt spk) and feel that if they can't be bothered to make the effort to post messages that others can understand easily, then they might not want to make the effort involved in learning to shoot properly.

A badly spelt forum post never hurt anyone, but when you're using a gun you have the potential to kill. Shooting has enough people trying to bring it down so shooters get a bit twitchy about the image that comes across on public forums.

I'd say again :

1. Get a decent air rifle - the SMK is a piece of cr*p, you're only going to get frustrated trying to do anything with it. I don't know where you are but a good gun shop should be able to set you up with a decent secondhand springer and scope for £200

2. Practice shooting on targets. Again and again and again. You're looking for consistency - can you put a pellet in 1" at a given distance whether you're prone, kneeling or standing? It's not easy. Shooting a springer is more difficult than shooting a PCP or rimfire but will give you good technique that will pay dividends for the rest of your life.

3. Practice your fieldcraft - how close can you get to bunnies without spooking them ? Learn what makes a difference (the army teach the 6 S's - Shape, Shine, Shadow, Silhouette, Smell, Sudden Movement).

When you've got all that sorted, you can go out on your mate's dad's farm and try and put it all together.

If you want to talk to the experts you can look at http://www.airgunbbs.com/forums/. Best to lurk for a while before saying anything, as they tend to kill newbies asking stupid questions, and they are very unforgiving about people using txt spk. There are also some excellent bargains going for SH air rifles - a tuned BSA Lightning with Simmons scope for £160 at the moment for instance.

Hope this helps and best wishes.
batman4435

SheepShed wrote:
My bad m8 Very Happy

If you're serious about getting into air gunning and hunting then people will be pleased to support you, it's just that old crusties like me see people using text speak (txt spk) and feel that if they can't be bothered to make the effort to post messages that others can understand easily, then they might not want to make the effort involved in learning to shoot properly.

A badly spelt forum post never hurt anyone, but when you're using a gun you have the potential to kill. Shooting has enough people trying to bring it down so shooters get a bit twitchy about the image that comes across on public forums.

I'd say again :

1. Get a decent air rifle - the SMK is a piece of cr*p, you're only going to get frustrated trying to do anything with it. I don't know where you are but a good gun shop should be able to set you up with a decent secondhand springer and scope for £200

2. Practice shooting on targets. Again and again and again. You're looking for consistency - can you put a pellet in 1" at a given distance whether you're prone, kneeling or standing? It's not easy. Shooting a springer is more difficult than shooting a PCP or rimfire but will give you good technique that will pay dividends for the rest of your life.

3. Practice your fieldcraft - how close can you get to bunnies without spooking them ? Learn what makes a difference (the army teach the 6 S's - Shape, Shine, Shadow, Silhouette, Smell, Sudden Movement).

When you've got all that sorted, you can go out on your mate's dad's farm and try and put it all together.

If you want to talk to the experts you can look at http://www.airgunbbs.com/forums/. Best to lurk for a while before saying anything, as they tend to kill newbies asking stupid questions, and they are very unforgiving about people using txt spk. There are also some excellent bargains going for SH air rifles - a tuned BSA Lightning with Simmons scope for £160 at the moment for instance.

Hope this helps and best wishes.
yes that help's a lot thanks
vegplot

Welcome aboard Batman.
batman4435

.

vegplot wrote:
Welcome aboard Batman.
thanks Very Happy wav sorry when i seen that i had to put it's made my day
Old-Chads-Orchard

check out the link in my sig, they are a bit more friendly than the BBS Wink

Where abouts are you?
Sovvolf

Okay, I realise that this thread was last replied on in 08, I apologise for bringing up such an old thread 2 years later. However I was looking for an answer and this thread was extremely relevant as my question is extremely similar to Batmans question.

I'm on the verge of buying an air rifle, mainly for plinking or target shooting... don't intend on killing anything with it. While I'll certainly be taking this rifle to the shooting range... I'd like to get a little practise in my garden.

I was wondering if this was legal. While you answered Batmans question with a yes... My situation may be a little different as I live in a council house. Meaning that it's council property I'd be shooting on. Which may or may not technically be armed trespass. I've applied for permission from the council to shoot... I'm just wandering if it's necessary or if I'd be breaking a law... I don't want to go to jail for enjoying a hobby.

Also the rifle isn't powerful enough to require a licence, under 12 ips ( I think that's the measurement) of muzzle energy. I hope me raising this dead thread back into the living isn't an inconvenience and I would be extremely grateful for any answer or any advice you could give me on this matter.
Brownbear

You're not taking game, so I don't see how the landlord's permission is required. Just make sure you've got a proper backstop and no ricochets. I'd also advise you to speak to your neighbours, tell them what you propose to do and make sure they're happy that it's safe.

You don't want them getting worried or offended, and calling the coppers on you.
SheepShed

Sovvolf wrote:
I've applied for permission from the council to shoot...

I hope you haven't opened a can of worms here - I can just imagine assorted council jobsworths getting their knickers in a twist over this.

As Brownbear says, you don't need permission (you're the occupier) you just need to be safe and ensure that no pellets leave the boundary of your property. And it would be wise to politely inform your neighbours first and try and get them on your side to avoid any misunderstandings.
crofter

I was surprised to shoot myself with an air rifle yesterday. Setting sights for someone, aiming at a straining post 25 - 30 yards away. Beware of ricochets.
vegplot

crofter wrote:
I was surprised to shoot myself with an air rifle yesterday. Setting sights for someone, aiming at a straining post 25 - 30 yards away. Beware of ricochets.


That's exactly what I did in my teenage years. A knot on a fence post was an excellent target, or so I thought until the pellet ricocheted and smacked me in the forehead. I was lucky.
Brownbear

I saw a video the other day of someone shooting himself in the head with a .50 sniper rifle via a ricochet. Bet that made his ears ring.
Sovvolf

SheepShed wrote:
Sovvolf wrote:
I've applied for permission from the council to shoot...

I hope you haven't opened a can of worms here - I can just imagine assorted council jobsworths getting their knickers in a twist over this.

As Brownbear says, you don't need permission (you're the occupier) you just need to be safe and ensure that no pellets leave the boundary of your property. And it would be wise to politely inform your neighbours first and try and get them on your side to avoid any misunderstandings.



I'm not the occupier (well rent payer), my father is and I have his permission to shoot. However, isn't the land technecally the councils land?. Even though my father is paying the rent and living there... that land doesn't belong to him does it?, So wouldn't I need the councils permission if I'm to shoot on their land. I'm sorry if I seem overly cautious about this but I'm playing devils advocate with my own request because I'm a first time shooter and I don't want to do anything that will break the law... That or have me behind bars for a few years... I know it's just an Air Rifle and me shooting it shouldn't harm anyone... However the law views a Air Rifle the same as any other fire-arm and I doubt they take some thing like armed trespass lightly... even if it's only a technicality.

I will definitely be taking it up with my neighbours first though. I mean they may be a little suspicious and phone the police when they see some lad walking around with a rifle in his hands. I don't want an armed response team aiming their guns at me over this little misunderstanding.
Brownbear

If you're concerned, why not find out the number of your local police firearms enquiry officer and give him or her a bell? Or join one of the shooting organisations and ask their legal department.
Shane

In your original opener, you state that you'll be taking the rifle to the shooting range. If there's any doubt at all about the legality of using it in the garden, why not just satisfy yourself with the range? Better forking out a couple of quid a session at the range than potentially ending up with a firearms conviction on your record, I would have thought.
vegplot

Fit a moderator, if you can, to minimise noise is one less way of annoying the neighbours. Ensure you have a really good backstop and practice safe shooting.
RichardW

As well as a moderator a good idea is to sound deaden the back stop. Thick rubber or even better a straw bale. Pellets hitting solid steel make a racket.
sako

Brownbear wrote:
I saw a video the other day of someone shooting himself in the head with a .50 sniper rifle via a ricochet. Bet that made his ears ring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ABGIJwiGBc
Slightly more powerful than an air rifle but will cope with a muntjac!
Cheers
Richard
Sovvolf

Shane wrote:
In your original opener, you state that you'll be taking the rifle to the shooting range. If there's any doubt at all about the legality of using it in the garden, why not just satisfy yourself with the range? Better forking out a couple of quid a session at the range than potentially ending up with a firearms conviction on your record, I would have thought.


The problem there is that I don't drive or have a car. So trips up to the shooting range would be infrequent. I will be going to shooting ranges... However I'll probably only be able to make it up to one once every month. Would be nice to be able to take my gun out to the yard an be able to shoot when I feel in the mood for it.

Though your right it's better just going to a shooting range and not risking it than gettting a firearms conviction on my record... Which is the main reason why I'm trying to get as much informations as I possibly can on whether or not I can shoot before I go out there and start shooting.

Brownbear wrote:
If you're concerned, why not find out the number of your local police firearms enquiry officer and give him or her a bell? Or join one of the shooting organisations and ask their legal department.


I did contact the my local police station about all this and they told me that I'd be doing nothing illegal as long as my pellets stay within my Garden. However given that it's a council garden, it's up to them whether or not I can shoot on their premises. I already contacted them about a fortnight ago and I'm waiting for a reply from them about the situation. Maybe I shouldn't have contacted them and fired until they either stopped me, instead didn't mind me shooting... However I'd rather do this by the book... Then I can't get in trouble and I'm not breaking any law.

vegplot wrote:
Fit a moderator, if you can, to minimise noise is one less way of annoying the neighbours. Ensure you have a really good backstop and practice safe shooting.


I think you can purchase suppressors at the local gun store (the same store I'll be getting my gun from) so I'll pick one up when I get the gun. I've got a decent backstop for pellets. Well I think it is anyway... I have rows upon rows of thick wood which I'll be building the back stop with. I also have a few old sofa cushions which I could use in order to help break the nose down... for the neighbours sake.
RichardW

Wood is not a good back stop. It can rebound the pellet & will over time have holes in it.
Sovvolf

RichardW wrote:
Wood is not a good back stop. It can rebound the pellet & will over time have holes in it.
The woods mostly to stop the pelet going through and hitting the neighbours fence or going through it. I'm going to cushin it out on the front to try and prevent a rebound along with soaking up the noise. I think this wood is way too thick for the pelets to get through. A good couple inches thick... Though I'm not too sure on how powerful Airguns are... I don't mean to underestimate them... I just don't want to destroy the neighbours fence in the process.
RichardW

I dint mean they will go through on each shot. But after you have been shooting for a while the impacts will make a hole.

My current PCP air rifle (set at under the 12ftlb limit with all pellet weights available) will go about 1/2" into a plank on its face or end grain at 30m.
Sovvolf

RichardW wrote:
I dint mean they will go through on each shot. But after you have been shooting for a while the impacts will make a hole.

My current PCP air rifle (set at under the 12ftlb limit with all pellet weights available) will go about 1/2" into a plank on its face or end grain at 30m.
I see... Then constant repairs and maintanance would be needed. Though I think this may be the only way of creating a suitable back stop. I doubt my neighbours fence is more that 1/2" thick... They wouldn't mind me shooting (We're pretty close nit around here) though I think they'd start getting a little inpatient when they have bullet holes in their fence. I haven't done any proper measurements of the wood but I'd estimate that they're at least 4" think.

Do you have any better suggestions for a backstop?.
vegplot

Sand make an excellent back stop. Our range uses nothing but sand and it take a awful lot (unlimited?) of punishment, mind you we do have 1,200 tonnes of the stuff.
jamanda

How would Sovvolf use that in his back garden? A fence wouldn't take the weight of sand bags would it?
vegplot

Jamanda wrote:
How would Sovvolf use that in his back garden? A fence wouldn't take the weight of sand bags would it?


I don't know the layout but if it we me and there wasn't a convenient earth bank I'd buy in a few railway sleepers and bank sand up against them. He wouldn't need anything large, perhaps 3 or 4 edge on sleepers high. They could be re-used for some other garden feature later.
Sovvolf

vegplot wrote:
Jamanda wrote:
How would Sovvolf use that in his back garden? A fence wouldn't take the weight of sand bags would it?


I don't know the layout but if it we me and there wasn't a convenient earth bank I'd buy in a few railway sleepers and bank sand up against them. He wouldn't need anything large, perhaps 3 or 4 edge on sleepers high. They could be re-used for some other garden feature later.


When you say earth bank do you mean a lump of earth sticking up?. Here's a rough image of a part of my backyard... Sorry for the quality... I accidentally saved it as a JPG not a PNG. The little house isn't my house it's my niece playhouse. Anyway that piece of earth sticking up... would you say that's an earthbank?. I could use that and it sticks up a good few 5 or 6 feet above ground. Though there is the risk of over shooting it... Which means the bullet would land in the next garden. That garden is deserted along with the garden next to it but I'd probably be breaking a law either way.
Sovvolf

Sorry for the double post and for bumping. I've just got an email back from the council stating that they may grant me shooting permission. However I must create a suitable backstop for the gun and they will send out a police officer to test it and make sure it's safe. So I've been going through ideas in my head and I created a plan of one in Blender 3D. Here's the pick. I'm wondering if this would be an acceptable backstop for firing at?. if this is not a suitable back stop, would some one kindly give me some advice on what would make a suitable back stop or what improvements I could make to my plan?.
Brownbear

Arrange it so that no houses or windows are in your line of fire, even if you have some sort of fit whilst shooting that means you elevate the rifle.
matt_hooks

As the occupier of the land, your father has the right to give you permission to shoot over it. That's how the firearms law is phrased, and there's no condition in any contract that can over ride that!

The main things to remember. If you shoot and a pellet crosses the boundary then you could be accused of the offence of armed trespass, though proving it would be difficult unless you were unlucky enough to hit someone.

The big catch will be to do with the highways act. It is an offence to discharge a firearm within 50 feet of the centre of a highway (basically a paved road) where such act causes injury or fear to a member of the public using the thoroughfare.

As an addendum, if you're tempted to take a pot shot at any wildlife, the list of suitable air rifle quarry is short. There are a few mammals, (brown rat, grey squirrel, rabbit, brown hare and a couple of others) which are covered by a general licence. There are also a few species of bird that are covered by a general licence, but the terms state that "non lethal options" must be considered as a method of control before lethal methods can be considered!

Whilst an air rifle is more than capable of killing a human, as long as you use it responsibly and follow the legal guidelines you should be perfectly safe.
frewen

Um - can I just say, it's picky on my part - but the definition of a "highway" is rather broad and not covered by "basically a paved road" definition

Sorry - I'll go away again...
matt_hooks

Frewen wrote:
Um - can I just say, it's picky on my part - but the definition of a "highway" is rather broad and not covered by "basically a paved road" definition

Sorry - I'll go away again...


In the exact meaning of this, yes that's exactly what it means.

It means a metalled roadway designed for motor vehicles to pass.

I put that as people seem to think it applies to footpaths, unmetalled bridleways and other rights of way. It doesn't!
jamanda

Sad that hares are on that list.
Brownbear

Jamanda wrote:
Sad that hares are on that list.


In some areas, they have become something of a pest. Not in Devon though, I've never shot one and don't care if I never do.

But anyone who shoots at a hare with an air rifle needs the thing kicked up his bum.
frewen

matt_hooks wrote:
Frewen wrote:
Um - can I just say, it's picky on my part - but the definition of a "highway" is rather broad and not covered by "basically a paved road" definition

Sorry - I'll go away again...


In the exact meaning of this, yes that's exactly what it means.

It means a metalled roadway designed for motor vehicles to pass.

I put that as people seem to think it applies to footpaths, unmetalled bridleways and other rights of way. It doesn't!


Ahh ok - it's just when I learnt about highways, including in relation to the firearms act it was stressed how difficult it was to actually pin this definition down.

But I haven't read the rest of the thread and I don't want to pull it off topic going into fine detail, especially if that isn't necessary.
matt_hooks

Sorry but I don't follow you with the brown hare.

A well placed shot, with a full legal power hunting air rifle, will kill a hare cleanly and efficiently, and safely. In certain areas of the country the hare is a pest species, and needs to be controlled as much as rabbits. As coursing is illegal, shooting is now the only humane method of controlling populations.

I will avoid shooting hares if they are not a problem, as I will with rabbits and any other pest species, but I consider that a quick, clean death is the least that's owed to such a magnificent creature if it becomes necessary.

We could get into the argument regarding whether we have a right to take animals, for pest control or for food, but I'm sure that we come from the same line on that one.

The hare gets the same respect as any other animal that has to be taken, for whatever reason. The least I can provide for them is a swift death, with as little suffering as possible, whether it's a rabbit, ahare or a Red stag!

Frew, the offence regarding shooting near a highway is not created by any of the firearms acts, but rather by the highways act, specifically section 161(2) of the Highways Act 1980.

The actual wording is:-

In England & Wales it is an offence without lawful authority or reasonable excuse to discharge any firearm within fifty feet of the centre of a highway which consists of or comprises a carriageway, and in consequence a user of the carriageway is injured, interrupted or endangered. [Section 161(2) of the Highways Act 1980 as amended].

The actual wording is "a highway which consists of or comprises a carriageway" which is a very specific definition.
Brownbear

matt_hooks wrote:
As the occupier of the land, your father has the right to give you permission to shoot over it. That's how the firearms law is phrased, and there's no condition in any contract that can over ride that!


Some landowners, especially large estates, will sell off land but retain the shooting rights to one or another degree. Any such retention would be shown in the deeds of the property, though it usually applies only to game species.
Tavascarow

I have never seen a hare in my locality.
I don't know why they are so rare here, maybe the predominance of smaller fields & solid hedges.
If I saw one I wouldn't shoot it because of their rarity but in areas where they are a pest why shouldn't you shoot them with a suitable air rifle?
Surely if an air gun is powerful enough to kill a rabbit outright, then it's OK for hare.

On a foot note, some growers are calling for the ring necked parakeet to be added to the vermin list.
Apparently in the home counties in orchards & vineyards they are a becoming a major problem.
frewen

329 (1) “carriageway” means a way constituting or comprised in a highway, being a way (other than a cycle track) over which the public have a right of way for the passage of vehicles

Direct lift from the Highway's Act 1980

For further discussion as even the Lords wished to try and clarify what a highway/road/carriageway is on specific occasions ...
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200304/ldhansrd/vo040629/text/40629-38.htm

- not relevant legally to your specific offence, but underpins my argument about defining the thing in general terms.

I agree with you - the definition is specific, which is why calling it a "metalled roadway designed for motor vehicles to pass", or even "a paved road" isn't sound advice for someone asking a firearms question.
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