| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| tahir |
What is Downsizer?MissionThe site was borne out of an idea of Jema's and from its inception the main aim has been to preserve and transmit the knowledge contained within all of us, everyday "normal" people. We're not a breed apart, just people that are trying to live a better life in whatever way they can, hopefully Downsizer can help in that. As a non commercial and non celebrity affiliated site we are dependent solely on our members and indeed exist solely for them, it is absolutely true to say that we are nothing without you. We have been very lucky in attracting some very interesting and intelligent people as members, some of whom have also provided the backbone of the site; the ever increasing library of articles. One of the other aims was to encourage small scale commercial activity between our members in any way that we could, this is starting to achieve a little success and will hopefully become a greater part of the site. Ownership Although technically the site is owned by MarsJupiter Ltd (Jema's company) it isn't (and never has been) "his" site, he was very clear on this right from the start and has gone to great lengths to ensure that all members and in particular moderators can affect decisions concerning the site. Finances Downsizer is very definitely a not for profit organisation, although a very rough picture has already been posted this does not include substantial out of pocket costs borne by individual members with regards to material gathering and promotion. We are currently looking at investing in a major software component that will leave us very substantially in the red. The use of any future surplus' will be discussed widely before any decisions are made. The Present We are very proud of everything that Downsizer has achieved, in a very short space of time it's become a great resource and (in general) has engendered a really positive feel, we've managed to free a lot of locked up knowledge and also created a lively and friendly discussion forum The Future Ownership and mangement of the site was never meant to be static, people will inevitably come and go so in order to allay any concerns discussions are currently taking place to establish a management committee and investigate different ownership models to ensure that Downsizer isn't the property of any particular individual and is here to stay. Conclusions We've all (including you) worked hard to make Downsizer what it is, let's keep it that way and remember you're as much a part of it as we are |
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| bagpuss |
I think this is a nice clarification of the ideas behind downsizer
thankfully I think the majority of us already understand this |
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| Behemoth |
Resistance is fertile! | ||||
| tahir |
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| Bernie66 |
Sounds good to me, i would donate to the upkeep if necessary, not got alot but would be prepared to give a bit if needed. Need to be done very openly and with the understanding that by donating it would not give me any rights or say-so over how the site was managed. Anonymous paypal??? 
All that would be expected ,by myself anyway, was that i understood beforehand what my donation would be used towards. That would give me and anyone else the opportunity to donate to things we wanted and not to others. Choice again as with using the site in the first place |
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| bagpuss |
getting a paypal link for donations sounds like a cracking idea I think people whould be happy to offer both time and money to help make the site an even better place than it already is
there is advice on such actions here |
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| Bernie66 |
mods etc-consider it please
you are not "selling the soul of the site", you may be suprised by the support that you get and it may help the site in the future. As said in previous reply, so long as it was completely transparent and open, well thought out and uncompromisable (if there is a word like that) i can't see too many issues. After all so long as contributions would be optional and without any personal benefits to the donator it would be ethically sound.in my opinion anyway |
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| jema |
It has been suggested before, and I'm very pleased the people would like to donate. But the google ads are paying for our current expenses and whilst we are about to plummet into the red, the overall prospect is that we will eventually cover costs. Therefore as a non profit site, it is hard for us to accept donations when we cannot totally justify the need for them. |
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| bagpuss |
Can you explain why being not for profit precludes donations All charities are run not for profit and live from donations so I am afraid I don't understand your reasoning If you don't think the site needs it then fair enough or if you aren't comfortable taking monetary donations then also fair play to you but claiming this is for reasons of ethics sounds a little peculiar |
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| judyofthewoods |
I may be wrong, but I would think the teerm non-profit means that no profit goes to any private individuals for their private enjoyment. Any money raised and then spent on good causes or the communal good, would not be considered a profit, but keeping in the black and being able to do benificial things. Charities actively raise money, including through donations, but are non-profit organisations, me thinks 
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| tahir |
What Jema's trying to say is that unless we need the money there's no point accepting it. Be assured that if a time comes when we need you to dig in your pockets we'll let you know | ||||
| Bernie66 |
members could vote on a charity of the year etc to be given any "profits" and i use the term loosely (after expenses had been met.0 Do it clearly and transparently and there would be little room for confusion. Even paying an independant accountant to audit the books , whilst being an expense would be a consideration in years to come-hopefully if the site continues to grow at the rate that it is at the moment. It would keep all above board for the taxman anyway
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| Bernie66 |
What Jema's trying to say is that unless we need the money there's no point accepting it. Be assured that if a time comes when we need you to dig in your pockets we'll let you know
Fair enough!!!! |
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| jema |
If we could not afford to run the site from the adverts and the money needed was more than a pittance, then we would have no qualms in asking for donations
But to keep as "non profit" we must find ways to spend excess cash. At the moment this is not an issue as we are going well into the red anyway. But as things stand we would get back into the black without donations. Now I have some ideas for the downsizer name, like downsizer courses, other people have other interesting ideas. These ideas might need seeding with money, but are kind of a bit beyond the scope of what we are currently about. It is not ethical IMHO currently to ask for money for vague projects that might happen and might not, and need to get the basic approval of the membership anyway. Once again many thanks to people that want to donate. I do feel churlish in turning down such offers 
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| jema |
And since I have just received this email, all finanical worries are over anyway 
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| tahir |
Blimey, congratulations Jema 
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| Jonnyboy |
Wow, they must be excited about it too, judging by the spelling mistakes. | ||||
| tahir |
You read it??? 
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| bagpuss |
which is fair enough unfortunately the way I interpreted Jemas statement it sounded a little bit like hiding from difficult or contraversial decisions behind the sites ethics As others have said being transparent and open about the accounts which you appear to trying to do means that the majority of people will be happy to offer assistance both in time and money. The advantage of setting up such a system before you need it is people can then start making donations as they feel they can rather than you asking for monetary help only when you need it and those people who can't contribute at that time for what ever reason then feel like they have let you down even if they really haven't I would suggest a link on the main menu called something like donations which linked to a page along these lines Donations What downsizer as a site primarily wants is information and knowlege and you can donate this in many forms 1. post a new topic, make a post describing what you have done recently in terms of downsizing, gardening, cooking, hunting etc or simply ask a question. It is our forum posts where discussion happens and people find out possibly the most useful information 2. contribute an article. Our articles covers many topics ranging from wild food foraging to keeping your house fresh and fragrant or jointing a rabbit. If you know a lot about a particular topic, have some useful recipes to contribute etc doing this in the form or an article would be very useful. Instructions on how to submit articles can be found here Then if you wanted to add a bit about monetary donations it could go like this You can also help with the upkeep of the site by making monetary donations. Any money donated would be used primary for the upkeep of the site. We display our accounts [a href='example link to account']here[/a]. Any extra money is donated to these charities (list of links to charities you feel appropriate) then a link to paypal or what ever form you wanted to make your donation in |
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| Bernie66 |
sounds very reasonable and ethical to me. If public opinion gets behing this then the mods etc. would probably have to listen and possibly act ???
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| tahir |
Very good idea Bagpuss, I'd still be uncomfortable with monetary donations unless we've got a specific need. We may soon have a project that involves a large outlay, I think it'd be much better if we had issue related "appeals" | ||||
| Jonnyboy |
That's the downsizer ethic.
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| Bugs |
You never know your luck!
I'm with the issue/project based appeals though. I wouldn't want to have people's money sitting around being thought of what to do, when I'm sure everyone here is using their income for "good" stuff anyway. But if it comes to a time when we can join together to do something that could be a good choice. I really like Bagpuss's summing up - may we use that Bagpuss? Say on the FAQs to start with, then on a better "About this site" section, along with the statement at the top of this post, and some ways for people to get in touch with the staff, or post concerns/questions in public, as they prefer? |
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| jema |
I'm with Tahir and Bugs on this one. But you can always stick up a poll
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| bagpuss |
Certainly, it may need a bit of tidying up,my written english and spelling isn't cracking but I think its a good way to encourage people to submit information |
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| Bugs |
Yeh, look what happened to the last person you said that to...we're stuck with those stunted bonsai tree icons 
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| tahir |
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| Bernie66 |
I am not capable of sticking up a poll~ it takes me all my time to pm and post replies-if somebody else out there has got a clue how to do it then lets be having one, or a seperate topic to canvass opinions properly. Not everyone might jump onto this thread.
calling all computer competant downsizers-you know who you are!!
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| Daydreaming |
I am very new to this site, but I have been already drawn in completely by the firndly members and the beautiful colourful site. I am a member of a couple of forums and this is by far the prettiest.
Could I set one up for my students? Can I ask what software you have used? |
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| jema |
So you like out "stunted bonsai icons"
We use phpbb for the forum and mambo content management for the main site. We created templates in both that make them look fairly seamless for two unrelated bits of sofware, the idea being that when you are on the forum you shuld never forget that the main site is there. All the detail of the design has been thourougly constructively(ish) critisised by the members at every stage. Just look at: http://forum.downsizer.net/viewtopic.php?p=44896#44896 for the latest round of member feedback. I think this combination of hardwork by Tahir and myself, and NeilK on the original look, and now with others working on design as well does give us a lovely look as a site. |
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| Daydreaming |
Thanks jema. The site does look great, it is so inspiring - a credit to you!
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| jema |
It really is not just me. My colour sense is not good, and we have come along way from my orginal logo: |
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| tahir |
Of course. Do you want to start a topic in IT Matters? |