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Midland Spinner

What's the B***** point

We are just in the process of renewing our household insurance.

Apparently, because we run a business from home they are unwilling to cover us as there's an increased risk of burglary due to the presence of the stock with a value of more than about 1,000 and as we don't have a shop people will think/know that we keep our stock at home. I explained that our stock is unique & handmade and instantly recognizable as ours in the only market place where it will sell (re-enactors will all spot our stuff and if they know we've been burgled & stock taken would probably corner the miscreant & call the cops for us if they saw it for sale).

They are loathe to cover us even if we keep the stock elsewhere as 'people might still think that it's in the premises'.

Luckily we told them last year that we run a business from home, but they didn't pick up on it (although they've listened back to the record of the phone call & admit that they did know) so they will probably cover us this year for the same premium, but won't offer a renewal this time next year.

I told them that frankly if that's the case we might as well give up now as I can't work as hard as this year knowing that we won't be covered this time next year.

There must be thousands of craft workers out there who make things & sell them, how do they get insurance?

There's no point in lying to them & saying that we don't run a business from home, because all that would happen would be that in the event of a claim they'd find out & refuse to pay out or even blacklist us for lying to them.
sally_in_wales

Endsleigh does ours, they have been absolutely find about us running a business as long as we have no business visitors coming to the house in the normal run of things.
Midland Spinner

Can we have a Linky / contact details please Sally?

We've told them that we don't normally have customers visiting.
And we've told them that we don't expect the stock to be covered.

Aargh
Nick

endsleigh.co.uk
sally_in_wales

here's the general website for them, the last couple of years I've renewed by email, but I have double checked with them each time that they knew we worked from home and it was never a big deal, they just ask if we have visitors as part of the business, I say no, and I'm pretty sure we don't ask for any additional cover for stock or materials beyond their standard home office cover http://www.endsleigh.co.uk.. I do recall a year or so back looking for an alternative deal but came back to them as being the most painless to get the cover through
Midland Spinner

Quote:
but I have double checked with them each time that they knew we worked from home and it was never a big deal, they just ask if we have visitors as part of the business, I say no, and I'm pretty sure we don't ask for any additional cover for stock or materials beyond their standard home office cover

That's what we've always done, and it's never been a problem, this time the chap on the phone kept asking more & more questions. I explained that we don't want the stock covered, that we don't usually have visitors (but, like last year, admitted to one or two known ones, - last year it wasn't a problem). Now he's going to go back to the "level 1" underwriter AGAIN.
It's taken all morning, and we are no further forward.
earthyvirgo

NFU do mine MidlandSpinner.
House and my Business combined.

My print editions and any framed work I have at home are covered, and my presses.

EV
Nicky Colour it green

NFU here too

with added bonus they cover the animals - if say the sheep break out and cause havoc on the roads
mousjoos

NFU here too

with added bonus they cover the animals - if say the sheep break out and cause havoc on the roads


joy-riding sheep...? we don't get that here

but then this region's still firmly in the 1950's
nats

Have you thought of trying Ecclesiastical? They were born out of the refusal of other companies to cover vicarages, and we use them for our house (not a vicarage!) and have found them to be excellent, well priced, and with really good customer service when you do need to claim. They are also cooperatively owned which is a bonus as far as I am concerned.
Lorrainelovesplants

NFU does mine - never a problem with them, and we get public liability with visitors - they are soooo easy going.
Midland Spinner

Just spoken to the NFU rep. He says that a Homeworker policy is only for businesses with a turnover of less than 10k a year.
(That's TURNOVER, not profit or income extracted). So with both of us working full time even though we only took about 2k between us, we don't count.

In other news, our current insurer now tells us that the van & car were only covered for "standard business use" so we were only insured when the van was empty of stock!!!!! In spite of the fact that I specifically asked in detail when I last renewed the insurance.
He's sorted that out, at no extra cost now (but it will cost more to renew.....)
I could spit.
Midland Spinner

Extra update: just spoke to the insurance who does our ppi and she said that a Homeworker policy is DEFINITELY not what we want because we take our work out to events, the homeworker policy is only for people who work at home not at events.

I'd already worked that out, but for those of you who are using the NFU Homeworker policy I'd suggest checking that it does cover you for what you thought it did.

It's a minefield out there.
sally_in_wales

its complicated isnt it, because presumably as soon as you leave the front door with your stuff your normal trading insurance takes over, so the household cover only needs to cover you when you are at home
Midland Spinner

its complicated isnt it, because presumably as soon as you leave the front door with your stuff your normal trading insurance takes over, so the household cover only needs to cover you when you are at home


Yes, you & I are covered because we have trading insurance (assuming you are still with the same people), it's ones who are relying on just the Homeworker policy that might have probs.
earthyvirgo

Extra update: just spoke to the insurance who does our ppi and she said that a Homeworker policy is DEFINITELY not what we want because we take our work out to events, the homeworker policy is only for people who work at home not at events.

I'd already worked that out, but for those of you who are using the NFU Homeworker policy I'd suggest checking that it does cover you for what you thought it did.

It's a minefield out there.

Interesting.
NFU Llandudno didn't mention anything about 'events' not being covered and they definitely know my work goes to various venues/exhibitions and were clear that it was covered at home, during transit and whilst at the different galleries.

I will check tho'.
Thanks Alison
Midland Spinner

You are welcome. Sorry if it's short term bad news, but better than being caught out!

On the other hand, my informant might have been wrong. Best to check!
sally_in_wales

these days it does almost seem as if a lot of us should be asking our trading insurance to consider a small clause to cover those few personal effects we still have that aren't pressed into use for 'work', rather than asking for a household insurance to cover the multitudinous ways many people now have of earning their keep from home Laughing Midland Spinner

Tried that!

The annoying thing is that I just wanted house & contents insurance for the house & contents, not the business tools, not the stock, not the takings, not the floats.
But they are worried that unspecified miscreants might decide that we are rich beyond the dreams of avarice and that our stock is made from Gold, Silver & Virgins' Tears and we are therefore burglarable.

Of possibly just that we aren't as a friend put it "Mr & Mrs 9-5 living in a little box on an estate".

Confused

Honestly, I feel like giving up and claiming benefit. 'Twould be a whole lot easier and I'd have spare time to go to events and pose around with nice handmade things I'd made myself
sally_in_wales

I felt like that last week when wading through the new EU cosmetic regulations that come in as of June. Its all do-able, but I will need a solid week of paperwork to get all my stuff into compliance, and time is the thing I have least of at the moment. Almost threw up my hands in horror and decided to stop doing the soaps, especially as they only make us about 50 a year, but then took several deep breaths, had a stiff drink, and decided that locking myself into a room for a week with the paperwork was probably more fun than signing on. Midland Spinner

What with last week's health scare and this week's insurance nightmare I'm not really certain that I want to carry on. NorthernMonkeyGirl

What with last week's health scare and this week's insurance nightmare I'm not really certain that I want to carry on.

Sad

I hope it's just a cruddy week or two and things get back on track for you.
derbyshiredowser

What with last week's health scare and this week's insurance nightmare I'm not really certain that I want to carry on.

Well if it's any encouragement I think you've a brilliant well laid out stand with excellent products and I've never met anyone with such an inside knowledge of the construction of victorian pews as Hugh Smile
Midland Spinner

What with last week's health scare and this week's insurance nightmare I'm not really certain that I want to carry on.

Well if it's any encouragement I think you've a brilliant well laid out stand with excellent products and I've never met anyone with such an inside knowledge of the construction of victorian pews as Hugh Smile

Thanks! That's what you get when a woodworker carefully takes apart someone else's work with a view to modifying it. Smile

He's just gone out to the workshop to see if he can make a bed out of the offcuts of the cut down pews.


They started life at 10' so there's a fair amount of extra timber, and he thinks that it might make a nice bed.
mark

There are benefits and setbacks to business from home.

The benefits include being able to claim against tax the cost of heating lighting, furnishing with deck computer etc any space you decide to set aside exclusively for business use.

One of the setbacks is insurance. If your business and home insurance is the same address you'll still pay less than if you had a separate business address - but more than if it was just your home!

Insurers compete on home insurance prices by making it standard - you just tick the box and they assume everyone is more or less the same risk. So they save assessment and actuary costs. But once you have a business you can't just tick the box for normal home insurance.

Every business is different - some make things using metal and gas welding gear. Some involve storing dangerous materials. Some involve visitors to the premises. Businesses that have nothing dangerous used in production and no visitors but use mail order may store flammable packing materials but in property not subject to fire inspections!

This means some insurers - aimed at budget domestic market will simply say we don't do that - we provide cheap domestic insurance to those who we don't need to spend money assessing.

Others will charge you because you are no longer "bog standard" but need a tailor made policy. They are only doing the same you do if you charge more for craft items than mass produced items when they do the same job!

The problem is that if you have a business they DO have to assess you even if they decide you are no extra risk and that assessment costs them.

If you go for someone like ecclesiastical or endsleigh you'll probably pay a little more but save yourself loads of hassle and stress and get the personalized service you now need.
earthyvirgo




They started life at 10' so there's a fair amount of extra timber, and he thinks that it might make a nice bed.

That IS lovely.

EV
Midland Spinner

There are benefits and setbacks to business from home.

The benefits include being able to claim against tax the cost of heating lighting, furnishing with deck computer etc any space you decide to set aside exclusively for business use.

One of the setbacks is insurance. If your business and home insurance is the same address you'll still pay less than if you had a separate business address - but more than if it was just your home!

Insurers compete on home insurance prices by making it standard - you just tick the box and they assume everyone is more or less the same risk. So they save assessment and actuary costs. But once you have a business you can't just tick the box for normal home insurance.

Every business is different - some make things using metal and gas welding gear. Some involve storing dangerous materials. Some involve visitors to the premises. Businesses that have nothing dangerous used in production and no visitors but use mail order may store flammable packing materials but in property not subject to fire inspections!

This means some insurers - aimed at budget domestic market will simply say we don't do that - we provide cheap domestic insurance to those who we don't need to spend money assessing.

Others will charge you because you are no longer "bog standard" but need a tailor made policy. They are only doing the same you do if you charge more for craft items than mass produced items when they do the same job!

The problem is that if you have a business they DO have to assess you even if they decide you are no extra risk and that assessment costs them.

If you go for someone like ecclesiastical or endsleigh you'll probably pay a little more but save yourself loads of hassle and stress and get the personalized service you now need.

We don't expect more for the same, but the blanket "We don't cover that" was a shock*. Especially as the next people I asked also just said "no, go away". It really sounded as if we just wouldn't be able to get any insurance on our home. I now have one quote for insurance which acknowledges our business activities,(but doesn't cover them). It's more expensive, but at least it's an offer of insurance.

*Particularly as they were starting to get a bit annoyed with us for "not telling them last year", until he went away and listened to the recording which proved that we had told them, but they hadn't noted it.
Midland Spinner




They started life at 10' so there's a fair amount of extra timber, and he thinks that it might make a nice bed.

That IS lovely.

EV
Thanks! Unfortunately it didn't sell at that event so will have to come with us to another.
Nell Merionwen

It's stunning. If I currently had the funds I would have to give it a home Cool Paradise Regained

Thanks for the nice comments - its mostly the work of Victorians - My work was to shorten it from the original 10ft in a sympathetic manner.

If it doesn't sell soon and we run out of room in the van and house I'll lend it to you Nell!! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

I'm now trying to make a bed out of the "offcuts" but the grey matter is a bit addled after all the insurance issues. Now that demon seems to be receeding perhaps progress will get better.
three ravens

have you had a word with the N.M.T.F membership gives you public libility to trade,their van insurance has been the cheapest for the last 2 years they also do stock/van contents Mary-Jane

NFU do mine MidlandSpinner.
House and my Business combined.



When there was a business based here, they did mine too.
sally_in_wales

have you had a word with the N.M.T.F membership gives you public libility to trade,their van insurance has been the cheapest for the last 2 years they also do stock/van contents

I used to use them for trading insurance, but as they don't cover any internet/distance sales, it became pointless when these days as much if not more sales come through email enquiries after an event rather than purely in face to face market situations.

These days I use the Ian Wallace Craftsman Insurance, which is incrediby sane and flexible and covers internet sales, teaching and lots of other things as long as you tell him exactly how your business tends to operate. He even covered me for the use of open fires near the public when demonstrating. About the same price as NMTF too.
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