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starmoonlilly

What size is a smallholding?

Can anyone tell me what the defination of a smallholding is, opposed to a farm?

What acreage says its a smallholding?

Stupid question I know, and Im sure its a very easy answer.....if I knew it Embarassed
alison

A smallholding is a farm, and size makes no difference.

In this day and age I think a smallholding is more to do with the various activities being attended to, rather than the size.
Green Man

When does a farm become an estate? Often small farms are marketed as 'Small Residential Estates' if they have an elegent detatched farm house.
Gervase

If it makes money it's a farm, if it doesn't it's a smallholding! Wink
Treacodactyl

If you need a definition then Wiki's seems reasonable, under 50 acres a smallholding and over 50 a farm. There will always be different opinions though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallholding
Chez

I thought the less-than-fifty-acres thing was the criteria for getting a smallholding registration number? Larger than that and DEFRA classify you as a farm.
Green Man

Gervase wrote:
If it makes money it's a farm, if it doesn't it's a smallholding! Wink

Most farms are smallholdings then,If it looses a lot of money, it's an estate. Wink

Joke:- How do you end up with a small fortune by farming? Answer :- Start off with a big fortune. Laughing Shocked Evil or Very Mad
Bog Spavin

I understood it as the 50 acre thing but I don't understand when a cottage garden becomes a small holding ie: we have just under an acre layed to paddock, veg patch and garden but I would call it a cottage garden as I would consider it too small to be a holding, the house is a cottage (it is 1 and a half stories tall with dorma windows) what do you think Question Confused
Treacodactyl

If you have a paddock then it's an equestrian property and not a smallholding or farm. Laughing Seriously, while looking for smallholdings / farms for sale some estate agents group the smallholdings & farms in one section and equestrian properties in another. There often doesn't seem to be any reason to do this. Confused
Gervase

It's certainly worth searching under 'equestrian' when looking for places.
When we were hunting for somewhere we were amazed at the number of places we found that had clearly been bought with the intention of running some sort of equestrian business and which had failed and were up for sale. In some cases it was heart-breaking to see how much money had been spent on stables, loose-boxes, maneges and the like - running into the tens of thousands - when a moment's research would have told the owners that there aren't an awful lot of people wanting year-round livery in a dirt-poor part of the UK with Objective One funding.
Their loss has been the smallholders' gain, however, and most of the places were saw are now functioning smallholdings.
Sadly it doesn't stop the odd naive soul even now moving West in the hope of making a living from horses and ponies. Crying or Very sad
Bog Spavin

There are a lot of cottages around here that come with a small paddock, usually 1/2 an acre but up to an acre. I've had horses all my life untill recent ill health put a stop to it. The lass who has the paddock adjoining our land has a 16.2 hunter mare and has to work really hard to keep the place tidy with such a small paddock. These property's offer so much to a downsizer who doesn't have the opportunity to buy many acres. There is plenty of room for either poultry, pigs, or a couple of sheep and I have a large vegetable plot. So yes anybody looking could do a lot worse than checking the equestrian pages of a property site.
Green Man

In general you need about 1 acre per horse.
mochyn

We have about 3 acres, but didn't think of it as a smallholding until we got livestock and a CPH number to go with them. Before that it was a cottage with a bit of land.
Rob R

As far as DEFRA are concerned a smallholding used to be classified as 50 acres, then 80 acres, and the last time I checked it was 100 acres. For the regs though a holding is a holding, and needs a number if it keeps [farm] animals, even if it has no land at all.

I'd agree with the 100acre bit (it'll be forever going up if we keep loosing the smaller commercial units), then up to 500 acres a medium sized farm, up to 2000; a large farm, 2000+ an estate farm. However, that's down here in the lowlands, up in the hills 2000acres can be small Wink
Bog Spavin

Cho-ku-ri wrote:
In general you need about 1 acre per horse.


You don't need an acre per horse. Horses can be kept with only a stable as long as a sufficient routine of feeding and exercise is adhered too but it does make hard work of it. Very few of the London horses have any grazing to speak of but horses have done well there for hundreds of years.
gil

I thought 50 acres was the smallholding/farm divide.

At the lower limit, any size of holding from which you attempt to make any income, even a large garden (according to a mate of mine in SEERAD), as long as it is registered with SEERAD as either an agricultural holding or a horticultural unit, and has a number.

If you had even half an acre of glasshouses, you could produce a lot. A glasshouse grower I know in Crete applies to convert extra ground to organic by the square metre (rather than the hectare). He has 1 acre under glass.
Rob R

A definitive answer from the Oxford English Dictionary:

smallholding

noun Brit. an agricultural holding that is smaller than a farm.

Laughing
wellington womble

It might be to do with planning permission as well - equestrian planning permission is different from agricultural, and has to be applied for change of use between one and the other.

The difference between farmers and gardeners is that farmers always thing next year will be worse, and gardeners always think it will better! I guess its the difference between a hobby and a job.
Bog Spavin

Rob R wrote:
A definitive answer from the Oxford English Dictionary:

smallholding

noun Brit. an agricultural holding that is smaller than a farm.

Laughing


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
VSS

As was said earlier, there is no such thing as a smallholding as far as regulations are concerned.

Smallholding seems to be with people's perceptions.

We have neighbours with similar acreages, some i would describe as smallholders, and some as small farmers.

The is too much anti farmer feeling amongst individuals with small acreages. When attending a small holders meeting last year my OH asked that if there was a problem with a sheep for example, would you ask the "smallholder" next door who had been keeping half a dozen sheep for the last six months, or the "farmer" with 600 ewes who had kept sheep all his life.

Bizarrely, he answered that he would ask the smallholder. Who really knew best?? The farmer i should say.

www.viableselfsufficiency.co.uk
Rob R

VSS wrote:
We have neighbours with similar acreages, some i would describe as smallholders, and some as small farmers.


How would you describe me? Rolling Eyes Question Laughing
VSS

Small farmer.

Had a look your website. Jolly good. Covers just about everything.

www.viableselfsufficiency.co.uk
tahir

VSS wrote:
Small farmer.


Yup, see Rob your mum was right, you should have eaten your greens. Pair of high heels is your only remedy now.
Rob R

And there's the funny answer... Laughing Laughing Laughing
gleefulgoat

I understood it as the 50 acre thing but I don't understand when a cottage garden becomes a small holding ie: we have just under an acre layed to paddock, veg patch and garden but I would call it a cottage garden as I would consider it too small to be a holding, the house is a cottage (it is 1 and a half stories tall with dorma windows) what do you think Question Confused


I also have a "smallholding" under an acre....it also has a paddock, a walled garden, poly tunnel, veg beds, huge barn, a small orchard.....and i have a two bed bungalow.....I call it a small holding as I have two sheep and some chickens and was therefore under the impression that a small holding is where you farm for yourself and a farm is where you farm for profit.........But i could be wrong Embarassed
VSS

and was therefore under the impression that a small holding is where you farm for yourself and a farm is where you farm for profit.........But i could be wrong Embarassed


The two points of view are not mutually exclusive.
Rob R

and was therefore under the impression that a small holding is where you farm for yourself and a farm is where you farm for profit.........But i could be wrong Embarassed

The two points of view are not mutually exclusive.

Although the latter is rather elusive at times!
NorthernMonkeyGirl

I think the line between "garden with veg patch" and "smallholding" depends on whether you have an area that looks like Steptoe's yard... Laughing Sally Too

In general you need about 1 acre per horse.

Provided you are supplementing winter feeding with material from off site. You might get away with a pony on 2 acres and very little supplemental feeding. Of course it all depends on the land .....
VSS

and was therefore under the impression that a small holding is where you farm for yourself and a farm is where you farm for profit.........But i could be wrong Embarassed

The two points of view are not mutually exclusive.

Although the latter is rather elusive at times!

Indeed Rolling Eyes
LynneA

I think the line between "garden with veg patch" and "smallholding" depends on whether you have an area that looks like Steptoe's yard... Laughing

Ah - so despite us renting a suburban terraced house, we ARE smallholders. Embarassed
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