Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption
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happytechie
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Wheelchair accessible pathHi all, looking for suggestions for a surface choice for the permanent paths in our new garden. Needs to be cheepish as we have several hundred metres to lay. Needs to have a smooth surface for wheels to roll easily on.
Thinking of hard packed gravel or the resin bonded gravel atthemoment. I'm intrigued by the porous paviers that you fill with grass or gravel here https://www.sure-green.com/products/porous-pavers-grass-gravel.php
Thanks in advance
Paul
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Fee
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Re: Wheelchair accessible path
Thinking of hard packed gravel or the resin bonded gravel atthemoment. I'm intrigued by the porous paviers that you fill with grass or gravel here https://www.sure-green.com/products/porous-pavers-grass-gravel.php
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That looks like a good option, seems like an awful lot of plastic, though I suppose it will last for a lot of years, wonder if there's a similar more environmentally friendly option?
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Mistress Rose
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Don't think gravel on its own will do the job, even if packed down. The pavers or something similar are an option. There are also metal meshes available I think that can be incorporated into the grass to give a strong surface. The grass would need to be kept cut short.
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wellington womble
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https://player.vimeo.com/video/38794520
I’m going to have something like this. It’s what all the national trust places use, and I like how it looks. I’ve got to put in a driveway, so I’ll have to have have all the kit and wotnot on site anyway. Breedon is about 9 miles from here, just south of East Midlands Airport, so it’s local to me, and not all that far from you guys. My main concern is that it isn’t really pressure washable (which is my new secret weapon in keeping the garden tidy. Ish)
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Fee
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i'm not sure what the video is but the link isn't working over here!
There's something very pleasing about a pressure washer. It's up there with my laminator and there's not a lot else up there with it.
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Fee
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This stuff I pressume? http://www.breedon-special-aggregates.co.uk/
It's what HT was looking at last week, I think, certainly similar.
We've got a lot of it to lay, at least 300m x 1m, so needs to be cheapish! I eventually want to have path on the whole place so Willow has access to everything. Shorter term she can access to the gardeny bit of the field, but the path has to be one of the first things for us.
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happytechie
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Hoggin in the generic name, it's a small gravel to dust mixed with clay and should be rollable to a hard surface. Think paths on nt property and you won't be far off. I think it's the best option for us.
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wellington womble
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That’s the stuff. It does seem to work well for National Trust type places, and they have miles of it, so I think it’s relatively cheap. It’s beyond me, but it might be cheaper to do the whole whack in one go. You’d need to hire a digger to excavate the path bed (about 250mm deep, I think) and then spread a load of type one with a road roller to compact, then the hoggin, which you compact and wet roll. I expect the boys would enjoy it! I’m not sure how you make a camber on it, though. I gather it’s important to stop water pooling on it.
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wellington womble
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I forgot, I’ve got those porus paver thingies in the back garden. They seem ok, although I don’t really do anything but walk on them. You’re welcome to come and try them out.
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happytechie
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That’s the stuff. It does seem to work well for National Trust type places, and they have miles of it, so I think it’s relatively cheap. It’s beyond me, but it might be cheaper to do the whole whack in one go. You’d need to hire a digger to excavate the path bed (about 250mm deep, I think) and then spread a load of type one with a road roller to compact, then the hoggin, which you compact and wet roll. I expect the boys would enjoy it! I’m not sure how you make a camber on it, though. I gather it’s important to stop water pooling on it. |
A slight slope across the path will work as well as a camber I think. I have my eyes on a mini tractor with a back hoe but don't tell Fee!
Fee
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No.
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happytechie
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The plastic link paviers are 100% recycled plastic so they are not to bad. I think the clay stuff for most paths and the paviers in the bird of the grass that get high traffic.
We will need either a digger or an army of downsizers!
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dpack
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grasscrete tends to be a bigger scale than an access path.
it might be a bit of a bumpy ride unless there are small hole formers for such paths.
unless anyone on foot is wearing sensible shoes they are at risk of trips falls and broken heels until the stuff is so compacted little will grow.
any packed aggregate mix needs to be packed very well, ie good contractor and the heaviest vibrating roller machine that will fit on the path and not sink getting to it is good.
re cheap materials that are suitable for a smoothish, dryish, long lasting path i would start by checking any local quarries and aggregate recycling firms to see what is currently available. 20mm to dust will pack quite well in a variety of materials.
gravel is horrid for many reasons not least that it is not ideal for wheels in several ways and it will travel by mysterious means to places you don't want it and either gouge a floor in the cleat of a boot sole or surprise one during a barefoot nocturnal bathroom visit
as you need 300m should i assume that you have surveyed the route for any issues such as moving water, really soft bits, unstable slopes etc etc?
if any such issues exist find the suitable means to overcome them.
at a rough guess most large wagon loads ( some folk will sell by the load rather than by wt or vol ) of aggregate are around 20 cu m if it is properly full (and road legal)
the maths is fairly simple to work out how many you will need to fill a given shape if you know by how much that material will compress when rolled
or if you buy by wt you will need to know the wt/vol number and do the same calc.
clean rubble (brick and concrete) can be cheap and a very useful base layer if you have the time ,skills and equipment to make it into a "roadbed" ready to top out with a finer (more expensive) surface
minced road scalpings can be pretty good over a good rubble base
unless you have a lot of slave labour a decent set of machines will be very useful .
mini(ish) digger with a choice of tools for prep and spreading. front loader for site transport and a vibrating roller as beasty as you can get over the path and afford.
civils is fun if it is planned and executed well, tis a nightmare if it isnt.
i would start by doing intel on what materials are available locally and work out a plan based around that.
then see what the plant situation is to do the tasks required.
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happytechie
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The land is a bit on the wet side in places so the exact layout will wait till we've got our head around the space.
We have an orchard, meadow, allotment and garden/relaxation/entertainment sections to fit in.
I suspect we'll use some builders rubble to raise some bits above the wet where people can pitch tents and use ditches to control water in some of the others. I intend to get the woodlands trust in to advise on planting some more woodland, I need some hedges as well as fruit trees.
There will be more questions.
Dpack, I saw your thread about a new orchard panting project and may we'll ask for advice.
Nice o be back here! It's been a while.
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dpack
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nice to have folk back.
builders rubble is not necessarily the same as clean hardcore
from what you just said i recon walking the potential path lines and surveying a step at a time might be a good start.
when you know what you need to cross it is easier to decide what can be done to cross it or take a different route.
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Mistress Rose
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Make sure you put in edging before laying paths. You will need boards with stakes well into the ground otherwise everything will spread as you compact it. If you can do anything about the wet bits first, it will stop the path sinking into them.
I am not sure I would go with advise from the Woodlands Trust. They have made some big blunders in the past. Try a local woodland charity, and maybe take advise from several people. If you have a local agricultural college, they may be able to arrange for their students to do the actual planting as a practical lesson. I know son went out on a few; one in an iron panned very wet site. The lecturer hosed them down afterwards as they were such a state, but he still came home covered in mud.
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Fee
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Excellent idea, there is a local agricultural college, we will approach then!
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Fee
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Looking at paths again!
We've now planted half the meadow, 200 trees have gone in, mixture of birch, cherry, hazel, oak and hawthorn. I say meadow, it's a to-be meadow, but it's what we call it
The field we need to cross is clay. Sitting under water half the year and dried out cracks and lumps the other half.
Realistically, we only need to access it with Willow's wheels in the dry period because she doesn't deal with wind and rain well. Or cold. Despite being wrapped up!
She also has an all-terrain wheelchair so we can get her down there now, but it's still a bumpy affair for her.
Wondering about just hiring a roller and flattening a path!
Here's the little treasure earlier this year in her new chair down 'the field'. Ack, I'm on mobile browsing, will post it separately
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Fee
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dpack
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looks good, if a bit damp and rough even for a good off road chair
re the path might using a roller make a ditch rather than a path?
lots of rubble, medium size as a base and then smaller bits on top plus a backhoe and a roller(or a few roman military engineers) can make a decent path across most things
is there a cohort of the ermine st guard who could be persuaded to get some practical "road" building experience?
perhaps not just at the mo but it might be a goer if you ask.
with a shovel and a barrow and a tamper it is very hard work but possible, machines(or romans)are good.
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Midlandsman
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This may be an option: https://www.sure-green.com/grass-reinforcement-mesh-medium-grade.html
I looked at it when we did the front of our house but eventually went with slabs instead. I should work out much cheaper than the square 500mm section ones. It's also a smoother ride in my experience.
Unless you've large casters on the front of the chair they bang against every hole on the square slab like ones I've been on.
The other option would be to have a word with Remap to see if their engineers can build an all-terrain chair that suits. That's a bit of a long shot though.
HTH
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Mistress Rose
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As Dpack says, Roman road builders are the best bet. Having lived on that sort of clay, a causeway is the ideal solution, but it would take a lot of building. That mesh looks quite interesting and may make things a bit better.
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dpack
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if it is really wet and soft a lot, i mean a lot, of the right sort of brush wood, felted, under the rubble can float a road or railway or minster for that matter.
a wood causeway is possible but it would require a lot of decent hard wood trees and some major piling and big timber effort.
i recon my roman style option is probably the best way to get a long-lasting pathway that does the job for a wheelchair in any weather and will make all the other crossing the swamp things easier as well.
when we started dropping rubble into the tracks and spaces around the farm yard life got much easier, up until then it was only when it was frozen was it easy to move around, especially with feed and materials.
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dpack
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fee pm me, i might have lead on a fairly decent amount (30 car carpark to a depth of maybe 300mm )of suitable, re-usable rubble in june if you are not too far from york.
roughly where are you? the issue is transport, it has to go somewhere but somewhere not too distant would be easier to swing:wink:
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tahir
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for wheelchair I think you could use bark/woodchip/rubble or tarmac plantings. Need to scrape off soil put a membrane down and then with woodchip you could either go100% woodchip or with a hardcore base (properly rolllered base). Wood chip will be more maintenance than planings or type 1 (or any other aggregate).
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Fee
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I'll be back later to chat, we're in Nantwich Dpack!
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dpack
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ok , nantwich area, that is a bit far for this one, it would be at least 2 lorry days to haul it 120 miles.
tt says
A there is a fair bit of this stuff pulled from local authority and other sites
B her chum might know of some much closer to you that needs a new home
enquiries will be made
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Midlandsman
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for wheelchair I think you could use bark/woodchip/rubble or tarmac plantings. Need to scrape off soil put a membrane down and then with woodchip you could either go100% woodchip or with a hardcore base (properly rolllered base). Wood chip will be more maintenance than planings or type 1 (or any other aggregate). |
Sorry Tahir, woodchip's awful for wheelchairs. It throws your casters any which way.
Mistress Rose
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A smooth surface is better. DILs pet hate is shingle as when she walks she can't lift her feet either, so makes life very difficult for her. I think either the blocks, carefully levelled, or the mesh, both with grass growing through might be rather better.
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tahir
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for wheelchair I think you could use bark/woodchip/rubble or tarmac plantings. Need to scrape off soil put a membrane down and then with woodchip you could either go100% woodchip or with a hardcore base (properly rolllered base). Wood chip will be more maintenance than planings or type 1 (or any other aggregate). |
Sorry Tahir, woodchip's awful for wheelchairs. It throws your casters any which way.
I'm not speaking from experience, we used to use it between veg beds and over a period of time it packed down quite well so assumed it might work.
tahir
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Having said that, if that's the case how much better would a planings/type 1 path be?
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Ty Gwyn
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Considering the path is only required for dry fine weather,a cheaper,smooth surface path could be made from 2nd hand replaced/recycled conveyor belting.
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tahir
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What kind of base would that need?
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Ty Gwyn
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What kind of base would that need? |
Nothing,its heavy enough to hold down,just mow the grass down close to the ground and roll it out,there`s clip`s to be had to join lengths together.
tahir
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Could be a goer, does it come n different granule sizes?
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tahir
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This is what planings look like:
Click to see full size image
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Ty Gwyn
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No granules,it comes on a roll,here`s one in use,
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=photo+of+conveyor+belt+underground&ru=%2fsearch%3fq%3dphoto%2bof%2bconveyor%2bbelt%2bunderground%26form%3dWMSRPA%26ao%3d1%26qs%3dSW%26cvid%3dfdc7f7afad5e45ccb1e5f13949b3d2cd%26pq%3dphoto%2bof%2bconveyor%2bbelt%2bunderground%26cc%3dGB%26setlang%3den-GB%26wsso%3dModerate%26qfig%3df7c4ae8255f24a528fb742c863c9ee18&view=detail&mid=DD8C05204304B8571BF6DD8C05204304B8571BF6&&mmscn=vwrc&FORM=VDRVRV
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derbyshiredowser
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Considering the path is only required for dry fine weather,a cheaper,smooth surface path could be made from 2nd hand replaced/recycled conveyor belting. |
In Suffolk its used on the pebble beaches as a smooth surface to slide boats up the beaches and also footpaths its a great surface.
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