| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| jema |
Where do I get a bare bones machine?Looking for something with 4 cores and maybe 8gb ram, no operating system, no monitor. |
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| tahir |
Got to be Dell hasn't it? (Although I prefer HP from misco.co.uk or elsewhere) | ||||||||
| jema |
Dell is where i usually buy, but when you start to spec up powerful boxes you end up with :
as your choices and I'm loath to spend on an OS I would instantly wipe. |
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| dpack |
hp at a guess ,robust kit judging by my laptop | ||||||||
| tahir |
I bought an HP workstation without OS from misco, v happy with it. | ||||||||
| bagpuss |
Are there any small companies by you which might do you a good deal
Rob seems to do well from http://www.woc.co.uk/ in Cambridge |
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| Barefoot Andrew |
Ooh, been in there a few times myself.
A. |
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| Mary-Jane |
I have absolutely no idea what you lot are talking about... 
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| jema |
Slightly sore point, I used to funnel loads of people to such a company and then they went "bad" but you do have a point I should have another bash locally. |
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| Chez |
These guys have a good reputation among our geek-friends:
http://www.akcom.net/ |
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| vegplot |
Ring them and ask for a price without. I rarely use the web shop for anything other than to specify then I give them a call. If you catch them near their quarter end you can often get a discount - I always ask anyway and have always got one. |
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| Barefoot Andrew |
Seconded. I spoke to a bloke when I bought my machine - and they have the power to override anything the website seems to offer.
A. |
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| Hairyloon |
Haggle for your discount before you mention the operating system. Then when they've agreed to that ask for a refund on the OS. It says in the EULA that, if you don't agree to the terms of the license, the retailer should give you a refund. Good luck, I spent quite a lot of effort trying (and failing) to get someone to sell me a machine without windows. I didn't get as far as trying the refund route. And if they try to fob you off by saying that it is pre-installed, point out that you do not pay for the software, you pay for the licence, which cannot be pre-installed. It is the same as insisting you buy a TV licence with every TV. |
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| vegplot |
I almost never buy my machines with Windows on them as I have my own licencing arrangements. I tell vendors this and it's never been a problem. I normally get about 10% off sometimes but it has been as high as 25% and for a bare bones system. |
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| Hairyloon |
It's not so bad for desktops, but Laptops are a different cup of tea. | ||||||||
| vegplot |
Possibly, I wouldn't know. Isn't it much more difficult to get Linux to run on a laptop because of the more obtuse hardware requirements? You could always try a Mac laptop if you don't want Windows and pay the 'tax' to Apple instead. |
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| orangepippin |
The Dell Precision (workstation) range used to be available without O/S. I have also used www.armari.com in the past. | ||||||||
| Hairyloon |
Certainly it is more difficult to get everything to work, but you can usually get it to run easily enough. |
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| Chez |
Dell supply some units with Ubuntu. | ||||||||
| Hairyloon |
Yes they do. And they cleverly price it marginally lower than the entry level windows equivalent. But the windows machine comes with substantially better hardware. Upgrade the Ubuntu machine to the same spec and it comes out as more. Since the Windoze machine comes with software RRP ~£180, and the Ubuntu machine comes with software RRP £0.00, it is a pretty bum deal. But not, according to OFT, an unfair marketing practice. |
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| Chez |
I was more going along the thought-lines that the architecture would therefore be suitable for linux, than the pricing thing. I'd noticed that they weren't that much cheaper, though. | ||||||||
| bagpuss |
Any desk top machine capable of running windows will run linux well. You generally don't need quite as high a spec if all you want is email and word processing/internet as the OS hogs far less of the system resources than windows though |
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| jema |
Thanks for the suggestions, I have specced a Dell and will see if calling them does any good. | ||||||||
| jema |
Got Dell to knock £15 off, not a lot, but every little helps. | ||||||||
| orangepippin |
I think you are confusing the RRP of Windows and Ubuntu with the cost to Dell. The true cost for Ubuntu or Windows is probably far closer than you might think from their respective RRPs. Remember, Dell are selling Windows anyway, so selling anything else involves additional costs for staff training, hardware configuration, testing, sales support and so on. The pricing strategy for their Ubuntu systems is no more or less clever than their pricing strategy for Windows systems - it is about price points, matching the competition, and achieving a profit margin over their internal costs. So it is not a bum deal and not an unfair marketing practice - it is just real-world economics. In the example you have given the rational choice seems to be to buy the Windows spec system (which you say is about the same price but has better hardware) and then install Ubuntu yourself. |
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| Hairyloon |
I expect it is. I hear that the deal the manufacturers get with microsoft is that they pay the windows license for every machine that they make, whether or not windows is supplied with it.
Might be true if they offered support for Ubuntu. They basically point you at the Ubuntu forums (and fair enough they're pretty good). There is also the option of not supplying any OS. No OS means you don't have to offer support or training for it. How many millions of people are perfectly happy with Windows XP, and have a copy they have paid for but are forced to pay again for Vista with a new machine? Why can't you buy a machine without it?
It is a bum deal, and it is unfair marketing. And yes it is real-world economics: the rules don't apply if you have enough money.
And pay for something I don't want and add support for a cause I oppose. You say that's not a bum deal? |
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| orangepippin |
I expect the prices of the Ubuntu versions would fall as more people buy them and Dell's internal cost per machine for supplying Ubuntu is reduced. If you just don't want to buy Windows on principle then Dell may not be your best bet, even though their hardware is pretty good - try someone like Armari or build your own etc. | ||||||||
| Hairyloon |
But your argument falls apart because, as you say: anyone with sense will buy the cheaper Windoze machine. |