| Archive for Downsizer For an ethical approach to consumption |
| jema |
Where to get a cheap new PC without an Os.Not exactly downsizer, but my excuse for not knowing the answer is that for the last 10 years I have manically recycled bits and pieces to build Linux server rather than buy new.But currently I need these to be rock solid, and the couple of heaps of scrap I am using are just that bit too broken 
So I am looking to buy at least one new PC base unit, no need for monitor, mouse, keyboard or operation system. No great specification needed either. But I do not know where to buy reliable and cheap. |
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| joanne |
Would it not be better to put something together from scratch as before but just using new bits ? - Then you can dictate what you want with regards to Motherboard, memory, processor etc.
Surely as you are a small business you can get a trade account with any of the major parts suppliers Joanne |
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| jema |
These days the economies of buying individual parts just don't seem to add up Especially if you need to factor in your own labour time.
I have a PC "on the bench" so to speak at the moment, with probably some minor flaw, but no time to really fix it. |
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| Treacodactyl |
Looking around myself, as I don't want the packaged screens I've often found either, a self build list of parts or a configured system from a site like http://www.savastore.com/ comes to the same as a package with, in effect, a free monitor and OS. 
They may not be exactly free but comparing similar systems a 15" usable TFT screen often seems to anly add £20 to the bill and if someone was to offer a new TFT screen for £20 would you take it? I tend to go round in circles when looking and give up. 
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| jema |
I am hitting the same issue. I really just want the core case/psu/cpu/memory/hard drive in a reliable configuration. I was resigned to a superflous floppy/cd but I don'y want to be stuck with the prospect of it making more sense to get a new TFT and a useless OS as the extra money is minimal
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| ele |
I'm a mac user so as much use as a choclate teapot  but we were looking into getting a basic PC laptop and stumbled across these chaps, who seem to also sell basic base PCs, though we never actually bought anything in the end, so I can't personally recommend them, but I thought I'd post as maybe you can use the site for price comparison..
click |
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| Treacodactyl |
Sorry if this is a daft question, but have you tried looking for servers rather than PCs? | ||||
| jema |
Interesting question, the answer is yes, and notably DELL occasionally do seem to do server offers at a sensible price. I may end up waiting for such an offer to show up, but then again seeing as the Linux box has just crashed again, I may not have that luxury. |
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| marigold |
Ask around locally for recommendations of a "hardware nerd"? Our local free-ads paper has loads of ads for people who build PCs. I'd assume that it is not in the interests of someone running a small business to sell you cr*p as they will a) hope for repeat business and b) not need dissatisfied customers hassling them.
I bought a custom-built PC in the past and had no problems with it. Ditto various friends who have also bought custom-built. It may not be the cheapest way, but there's cheap and there's value for money.... A good bloke (and they are ALWAYS blokes ) will be happy to go through your spec with you and create what you want - or come up with a better idea.
Alternatively buy a copy of Computer Shopper and browse the ads
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| jema |
The issue here is that I do not want a custom PC in the sense of a flash model. I want something very basic reliable and that means mass produced. I have built loads of custom PCs myself and had many more built over the years. it can be quite a minefield on the incompatibility front, and it has certainly ceased to be economic to buy this way. |
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| tahir |
www.wstore.co.uk do "Linux" pc's so i don't spose you'd be paying much for the OS, usually branded stuff (HP etc) can't get their site to work at the mo though | ||||
| jema |
They seem painfully expensive
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| tahir |
Usually v cheap, it's a painful site though, I can't get it to work think it might be cos I've just re-installed Java |
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| jema |
I was looking here:
http://www.powerc.com/ Very cheap for 64bit, though ironically I want maximum compatibiitly and hence only want 32bit 
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| tahir |
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| marigold |
Admittedly it must be 10 years since I bought my custom PC, so I accept that things have changed in that time. I went for custom then so I spent my money on RAM and processing power and not on the fancy bits of stuff that come with packages that I wasn't ever going to use. I guess I misunderstood your original post - sorry
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| dougal |
I'm with Jo, especially as you are likely to have particular requirements.
The main economic problem with self-build is the temptation to "just have a little bit more" - memory, disk capacity, processor speed... But the thing is that you can choose your own - are you going to buy the cheapest available disk for the capacity you require, or are you going to look for something that is "server quality"? It can be your choice. Maybe you want to have a RAID disk system? Maybe you want (or don't want) Serial ATA disks? For domestic use, you might want a super-quiet processor fan. With DIY, you can choose. But better is going to cost a little more than the very cheapest. Main boards from the likes of Abit and Asus (or Gigabyte or MSI...) are at least as well made and reliable as the high street brands (some of whom they manufacture!) The main board chipset (your choice of board) will determine many of the features... Keeping to the mainstream (rather than seeking out the very highest performance or the very lowest price) should ensure an absence of compatibility problems. And you can research specific Linux drivers, say, *before* purchase. (This is where there may be a "labour" cost - but with mainstream gubbins, it shouldn't be a problem.) Another benefit to expect is better technical documentation of the hardware, and your options. Most proprietary kit is designed to *prevent* you easily upgrading individual components - and documentation can be decidedly sparse... Even for "basic" kit, you can have the option of buying 'quality' items. But ask yourself - do you want to pay extra for a server-rated psu, or would you rather have a spare one (and probably some cash left over). Beyond the obvious, I tend to value ease of access and quiet operation - you might have other priorities. Cheap branded items are cheaply made - despite being branded. The hard disks and power supplies are likely going to be whatever is 2p cheaper this week (maybe even this morning). Really strangely, buying a Micro$oft OS is one thing where the mass marketeers might well have a big cost advantage. M$ had a lot of legal trouble in the past with their policy of bargain prices as long as companies contracted to include a M$ OS with every single product... |
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| jema |
Beyond a reasonable measure of reliability the requirements are virtually non existant. It is for the Linux box that mirrors, downsizer and other sites I maintain. There is a CVS system for the vital stuff stored on my windows PC. As such what with backups I make extreme reliabity is not needed. Nor is sound, graphics, processing power... |
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| dougal |
Re: Where to get a cheap new PC without an Os.
These are prices from one supplier (MicroDirect), inc VAT, presumed typical. Do you have available: - an ATX case and psu (otherwise add about £30 - there's an Asus for that price) - a floppy drive (£5?) - a cd drive (£10) Then you are going to need: a motherboard (Elitegroup 760GSX-M ?) £36 a socket 754 processor (Sempron 2800+) £56? a fan matching the processor £5 2x 512mb cheap DDR RAM £60 a hard drive (200gb SATA Maxtor) £61 and umm that could be it instead of the built in video you could add an ATI Radion AGP card for £15
For a baby "rock solid" server, I'd rather have an Asus board (K8U-X) with built in SATA RAID - same price but lacks built-in video - so add the Radion card. (And it has 4 PCI (not 2) + AGP) Then I'd use a pair of Seagate Barracuda drives (80 gig @ £43 each or 120 @ £62 each) as a SATA RAID mirror setup. If it was to be somewhere out of sight (and thus sound) I think it'd be worth mounting the drives on individual sleds with their own fans - for reliability (£10 a disk). And I'd be very tempted to use respectable ram chips - the same amount from Crucial is about £50 more. How does that lot sound? Good value? Not too expensive? (I'll leave it to you to check things like Linux drivers for the built-in ethernet, etc)
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| jema |
Was that with or without VAT?
It is still over £200 when you can have a server on offer from Dell at £150 at times, and then you have the aggro of building it. Remember this is not a server in the real life sense of the word. I sits there with good old VNC running proving virtual screens to itself and SSH terminal to some "real" servers. It only ever serves test web pages and does not act as a file server, mail server etc. |
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| dougal |
Those are, as stated, VAT *inc* prices.
If you have a working HD that you are happy with, it could be even cheaper... Have a Google on those boards and see what they are providing for you. There may be a cheaper/slower Sempron, but I didn't bother looking... further. Once when I looked at a remarkable Dell "server" offer, I was surprised to discover that odd things like disks weren't actually included in the headline "from" price...
Its the ability to pick and mix (things like a hardware mirrored disk system) pretty cheaply that makes it so attractive to 'roll your own' - and the labour content is really pretty minimal. (Borrow an electric screwdriver - pc building is one of the few things its really useful for!) EDIT: heres the Asus board at MicroDirect (though I haven't used them, or bought a mainboard for over two years...) http://www.microdirect.co.uk/ProductInfo.aspx?ProductID=10207&GroupID=1090 |
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| jema |
There's the rub really HD's do wear out, and I am suspicious as to the state of mine. I am getting the odd boot failure
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| dougal |
Yep, hence my choice of a pair of Barracudas each with its own fan...
For a real cheapie look to a "Socket A" board and processor... |
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| gingerwelly |
contact your local college or uni .... i got a pc for my brother for £20.... great condition ...windows xp ..word etc (and net ready ) .. they get new pcs each year or so (well a department will get new ones then thefollowing year another department etc ) .. if you give them a call they may have lots of bits and bobs | ||||
| tahir |
We will NEVER buy another Dell server, absolutre crap |
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| Jonnyboy |
Try e-buyer, they have bare bones systems here | ||||
| Behemoth |
Not sure if they do what you want but I know CCL will put together a PC for you and charge £30 to do it.
http://www.cclonline.com/product-categories.asp?category_id=271 |
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| dougal |
Erm, they are not really quite that cheap, I think. Dell have a habit of quoting a headline price, eg £249 for a Poweredge SC430 server today. But thats before adding "delivery & vat". Which makes it £353. That means *over* £60 for "delivery". Which of course is compulsory. Even on eBay people are a bit more honest in their pricing. And this "server" comes with 256mb RAM. Upgrade to 1gb is £110
And an 80gb hd. Upgrade to 250gb is £110
Is that "ethical" business practice? Jema, I note the £189 "Power Cracker" you linked earlier. Comparing it with what I suggested above, it has a Sempron 2600, against the 2800 I listed, it has 256mb RAM (upgrade to 1gb +£60) while I quoted £60 for the 1gb, and has a cheapie 40gb Maxtor HD, while I suggested a 200gb Maxtor for a 'value' disk. Really, its up to you to decide what you actually want. Or even whether you want to palm off that decision to someone else... Picking the bits allows you to choose what bits (like the HD) you'd like to be *better* than basic. I don't understand your reluctance. |
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| jema |
Just a big reluctance to spend at all really 
I think I have just convinced myself to take some time out and have one last bash at a bit of maintenance and cannibalisation. I'm looking at 4 pcs here, two of which are my unreliable servers and two pretty complete but also iffy other PCs, they range from 900mhz up to 2.5ghz and at least one has 1gb of ram. It is a terrible shame to cop out and not make a go of them
The spec really is not the issue 40gb + 256mb of ram and 900mhz would be more than adaquate. |