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naomij

where to get nice hand tools?

I would like to get a selection of nice hand tools for my son's bday, and for me to borrow too around the house...we are both totally inept at woodwork etc, what do I need and where to buy it (preferably all at once would be good) are some things better than others seconhand/new etc? I was thinking toolbench (are they low enough for 9year old?) saws, hand drill (do they take standard bits?) vice...er, what else? He has had a childs tool set but it was crap...

He'd like a whittling knife, which sounds fun but scary, any good books or something you can recommend so we can learn together without stabbing ourselves too often?
crofter

For a nine year old with a hammer, every job will require a lot of nails.
dpack

my eldest started young with tools ,mortice chisel at 4 yrs

if the tools are fit for purpose teach the skills

get real tools Wink
Brownbear

Edged tools, even power tools, are perfectly safe if used properly. The first thing, I suggest, is to find some simple projects he can do and then choose the tools he needs to make them.

As far as workbenches go, get a proper one and let him make a trestle to stand on to use it, as his first project.

For that, a vice, a hand saw, a hand drill, bradawl and screwdriver. 30cm and 1m steel rules for marking out, a Stanley knife and carpenter's pencil. A block plane, couple of clamps.

Plenty of waste wood to practice on.
baldybloke

Get a copy of Axminster Tools catologue would be a good start. Also check yellow pages for tool shops, especially second hand ones. I'm fortunate in having a good one in Salisbury which I use. Another good source for tools would be car boot sales.
Rusticwood

If you don't know what you are doing be careful about getting second hand
Take someone who has some knowledge as they could have been mistreated
Brownbear

Rutlands have a nice bench on offer:

http://www.rutlands.co.uk/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi/DK2600
naomij

As far as workbenches go, get a proper one and let him make a trestle to stand on to use it, as his first project.

.

thanks this sounds like a good idea. I definitely want him to have proper tools, but now power tools yet as I'd like him to sort of be aware of the process iyswim. Also he has some slight co-ordination difficulties which mean this will be good exercise to learn these skills. Could you give me a very basic sort of order of construction for a trestle? That would be fab. What sort of wood? WOuld I just turn up at a lumber yard, could I get them to maybe do some cutting as I have no car!
we also thought a simple version of this would eb fun to make http://www.etsy.com/listing/62243587/playground?ref=sr_list_4&ga_search_query=wooden+playground&ga_search_type=handmade&ga_facet=handmade
naomij

Rutlands have a nice bench on offer:

http://www.rutlands.co.uk/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi/DK2600


ooh fab link ta, that would be my max budget for a workbench but excellent value! and very beautiful
naomij

If you don't know what you are doing be careful about getting second hand
Take someone who has some knowledge as they could have been mistreated

good point...I think I will stick with less is more and buy new for now
Brownbear

The easiest type of trestle would be just a very basic frame of 2x2, with some 3x1 across the top.

Good chance to practice cutting, measuring, drilling, screwing.
dpack

timber can often be got as offcuts from joinery workshops and builders for young uns to learn with ,it only needs small bits to practice joints ,dowelling,cutting and finishing etc .if available get any hardwood to work with ,recycle is good

timber for large projects can be delivered

strait,tight grained softwoods are good to start with

if you go for the hand drill option i would suggest bit and brace is more useful than the egg whisk type ,with a few bits most things can be made holey

a smallish general purpose saw .hardpoint is good in case of sawing nails or whatever
gents and tenon for jointing can come later

good quailty 1"bevel edged chisel and a 1/4 mortise chisel that are able to cope with a hammer to knock em

a decent claw hammer ,for a young un a medium is better than light or heavey ,he should try a few in the shop and get the one that feels most natural when used

plane ,good ones are expensive unless got second hand

sharpening stone set for the chisels /knife /bits

build lots of stuff with just those tools
dpack

his first lesson should be how to sharpen his tools as soon as the begin to loose edge which is quicker than most folk think

sharp is safe Wink
perlogalism

Hi Naomij,

I see you're on the Kent coast. If that's the bit anywhere near Sittingbourne, I'd recommend a visit to the Axminster store; http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-tool-centre--sittingbourne-kent-artlstoresittingbourne/?src=frooglelogout=idle
Everything from budget to esoteric and I've always found them very helpful.
Your son sounds like a lucky boy Smile
naomij

The easiest type of trestle would be just a very basic frame of 2x2, with some 3x1 across the top.

Good chance to practice cutting, measuring, drilling, screwing.

thankyou for all your help (but please is my best damsel in distress voice what do we then do with teh 2x2 and 3x1??) I tried looking at online plans but they look frightfullly complex...

maybe I shouldn't attempt to teach son woodwork? I don't want to put him off for life?? Neutral But it would be cool to teach him some simple skills (and his father won't!)
naomij

Hi Naomij,

I see you're on the Kent coast. If that's the bit anywhere near Sittingbourne, I'd recommend a visit to the Axminster store; http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-tool-centre--sittingbourne-kent-artlstoresittingbourne/?src=frooglelogout=idle
Everything from budget to esoteric and I've always found them very helpful.
Your son sounds like a lucky boy Smile

shame but looks like its not do-able without a car Crying or Very sad if he is lucky enough to get the toolbench linked to above, I suspect he will be getting a few bogstandard tools from local hardware store Laughing

And I think he'd prefer something computer game related...but we have discussed this and he would be happy with either some tools or a starter model train set...both time honoured hobbies
dpack

The easiest type of trestle would be just a very basic frame of 2x2, with some 3x1 across the top.

Good chance to practice cutting, measuring, drilling, screwing.

thankyou for all your help (but please is my best damsel in distress voice what do we then do with teh 2x2 and 3x1??) I tried looking at online plans but they look frightfullly complex...

maybe I shouldn't attempt to teach son woodwork? I don't want to put him off for life?? Neutral But it would be cool to teach him some simple skills (and his father won't!)


get advice and learn together
dpack

look at some plans

draw a plan for your task
naomij

look at some plans

draw a plan for your task

these are all wise suggestions, but I don't have anyone around to ask for advice, thus my reliance on google and forums Laughing

What are the pros and cons of the different handdrills? The brace one (whatever its called Embarassed ) obviously looks like it would give great torque...but might not be so easy to use for a 9 year old with slight co-orination problems? Or maybe a bit easier? And saws....I remember hand saw/tenon saw/coping saw/junior hacksaw...I think the suggestion of choosing a prohject and buhing for that is best but are there definite must have? Hmm. We should all live in tribes, then boy-child could go off hunting and building with other menfolk and I coul continue knitting/sewing undisturbed.
boisdevie1

Tools - Screwfix
As for projects, couldn't his first project be to make his woodworking bench - with help obviously
Brownbear

Having thought a bit, you could just get a sturdy pine table - it's hard even to give them away at the moment, they're going for a few quid on Ebay - with a vice attached, something like this:



http://www.toolbox.co.uk/irwin-record-v150b-woodcraft-4018-74256

Spend the rest on tools and some timber. Let him use some hardwood as soon as he's mastered the basics in softwood.
naomij

Tools - Screwfix
As for projects, couldn't his first project be to make his woodworking bench - with help obviously

that would be so fab...but I think there's a fair chance our first project may not be entirely perfect, so it might be better not to start with anything too big Laughing
naomij

Having thought a bit, you could just get a sturdy pine table - it's hard even to give them away at the moment, they're going for a few quid on Ebay - with a vice attached, something like this:
Spend the rest on tools and some timber. Let him use some hardwood as soon as he's mastered the basics in softwood.

thats a good idea...I'd rather buy the best quality tools I can reasonably afford so that they will work well and not be frustrating (says she who has spent too much with cheap screwdrivers) He could just use the ol dining table, it was too big for us so I have turned it into a craft table and the dining room is now a craft room Laughing so I was going to have a work area for him in there too, but he can just have an end of the table I suppose! Laughing
Thankyou so much for all these helpful replies, I am pretty hopeless so all thoughts much appreciated
Midland Spinner

OH says "make a box rather than a trestle - it will give your son somewhere to store the tools"

He's drawn you a simple plan (not to scale!!)

Make the box out of planks for the sides use simple joints as in the drawing. Use thick ply for the top & bottom. Make a closed box first, then saw through, that way the body & lid will fit together. Put hinges on one side & a catch on the opposite. Handles too if you like!

Brownbear

Just had a quick look on a couple of sites, here's what I would get in your position, along with the vice above (and for his first project, he can make hardwood plates to line the jaws of the vice with, they stop the iron jaws damaging the timber).

For a hand drill, you'll get not only cheaper but better off Ebay. Something like this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Woodworking-Metalworking-tools-Stanley-Hand-Drill-/160552474061?pt=UK_Collectable_ToolsHasdware_RL&hash=item2561ac55cd


This is from Axminster, they are all good and as cheap as is likely to be usable, but all decent quality. Parsimony is as bad as extravagance when buying tools.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-axminster-woodworkers-vice-with-table-clamp-prod376874/

These screwdrivers will last a lifetime if not abused.
http://www.axminster.co.uk/wiha-wiha-6-piece-set-prod19451/

This square may seem pricey, but it does the job of several and is accurate, which the cheaper ones (now made in China, badly) aren't.
http://www.axminster.co.uk/nobex-nobex-octo-folding-square-prod480222/

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-axminster-pack-of-6-carpenters-pencils-c-w-sharpener-prod715081/

http://www.axminster.co.uk/stanley-stanley-99e-retractable-blade-utility-knife-prod23377/

Block Surform (does service as a basic plane and as a rasp).
http://www.axminster.co.uk/stanley-stanley-surform-block-plane-prod23353/

Probably the longest saw he can comfortable handle at the moment.
http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-axminster-fineline-toolbox-saw-prod649971/?searchfor=toolbox%20saw

Bradawl, for marking and for starting out screw holes.
http://www.axminster.co.uk/crown-crown-square-blade-bradawl-prod22980/

A 12" one of these.
http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-black-coated-stainless-steel-rule-with-white-markings-prod836120/

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-axminster-auto-lock-tape-prod375930/

Pincers for removing mis-hit nails
http://www.axminster.co.uk/stubai-pincers-prod20319/

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-warrington-pattern-cross-pein-hammer-prod19604/

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-pin-hammer-prod19748/

http://www.axminster.co.uk/der-finest-standard-series-drill-bits-prod780382/

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-tin-coated-countersinks-prod820369/

http://www.axminster.co.uk/joseph-marples-joseph-marples-no-2-gauge-prod22435/
Rusticwood

Do the local education people have woodworking evening classes?
If so could you go to learn then teach your son?
Or have you a friend or relative near who could help?
Midland Spinner

Great list of links Brownbear, is there any chance we could make that list a sticky or an article? naomij

OH says "make a box rather than a trestle - it will give your son somewhere to store the tools"



oh that is so sweet of him thankyou! Smile

that would be such a fab first project, and seeing the order of construction like that means I can visualise it and plan whats needed ta x
naomij

brownbear I think i love you xxx will def check out all those links, how wonderful...tools are really hard to buy when you know nuffin, I want to get decent but not showy, just good quality so thankyou very much for the specific suggestions I will def be following them up! naomij

Do the local education people have woodworking evening classes?
If so could you go to learn then teach your son?
Or have you a friend or relative near who could help?

sadly local evening classes seem to have gone downhill...and I have no childcare in the evenings. I did go to a 'power tools for women' type lcass once Laughing but it just served to confirm my terror of them Embarassed he will be on his own if he wants t try that further down the line

only relative in the country is my brother who may well be helpful, I should be braver and ask him really, he would prob enjoy it but is a bit shy sometimes about doing 'stuff'
naomij

Great list of links Brownbear, is there any chance we could make that list a sticky or an article?

I second that!
dpack

me as well

a brace has good torque and if you need to make a hole 5mm or above will be much better for a young un

i was using both at about his age and the brace n bit is a good tool for making all manner of holes in wood ,and is easy to use ,start off strait and the bit will stay strait

the brace will make big holes as well as little ones but a whisk drill will only make small ones
naomij

my bro took me to b&q yesterday and helped me choose their cheapie workbench (which looks pretty good), a mitre saw kit and a basic hammer, and said the rest of their stuff is overpriced tat and to look for hand drill etc in independent local place Very Happy

so far so good (also told him about safety knife for ds)
naomij

Well I ordered the hand drill locally and bought a few odds and sods, and set it all up in our 'craft room' wot was the dining room Laughing and hid it under a blanket til his birthday Very Happy he seemed pleased, so far has done some nail bashing and bro has shown him (and me:oops: ) how to use saw...

Hes made a lacing toy for his sister by measuring and drilling holes in some cast off wood and adding a shoe lace. Also a sign for model railway which he thought of himself. And today we made his dad a little box with balsa wood and pins. Not a pretty sight tbh, but I am v proud and a bit sad it's not for me! He also has some odd plans involving garden canes which I decided it best to only half listen to as it sounded a bit unrealistic to me, but what do mothers know!

Thanks for all suggestions and encouragement x
naomij

Oh and j didn't buy a toolbox as hoping to make one as above! dpack

proper toolbox is good

not complicated

make the basic box and lid ,add details like draws ,jar racks ,tool slots etc etc

it is worth making a decent size box ,they fill quickly and a 30 inch cross cut saw needs a place to sit in the lid in a slot with a turn toggle to hold it in place Wink

making and filling a carpenter's box is the way to learn many skills
naomij

Gosh you make it sound so straightforward but if boy and I ever manage that I will never need to achieve anything else in life! Of course, usual modern problem of no one with relevant skills about to guide us. However, we have progressed from bashing, to drilling, to ugly (lidless!) box, so the world is our wooden oyster! dpack

if you know it is ugly and would improve on that early lesson you are both well on the way to honourable tradesfolk Very Happy

is it likely that tom chippendale looked at his first box and thought "the next one will be better"?

plan and make a cutting list ,cut and fix for the next development

wood can be reused Wink
naomij

Thankyou for your wise words!

I taught myself to knit and sew from books, and after years of frustration am amazed to find myself, 10 years on, confident that of clothes shops suddenly ceased to exist it would be a cause got celebration rather than concern Laughing and the advantage to learning the long hard way was that I learnt not just what to do, but how things actually work, and needn't depend on others designs etc. It seems this may be a good mindset for woodwork, so I shall keep our projects realistic Embarassed Laughing and look forward to what we might achieve in the next 10 years!

Am pleased to think knitting is applicable to woodwork !
dpack

making things is very simple

by trying one gets the skills first time or by keeping trying to get it right

learning to plan and then working to that plan is best until the plan fails and a new way is needed


tool up and make stuff folks

i have 100gm of bullion silver and 50 gm of mixed colour 9 ct gold in 2 gm lumps that i want to make into makume gane or maybe landscape metal, .i only get one go at that .then i have to make it into something special by beating and or cutting and welding .it has been a while since i played with sparking metal recon it will be a retreat with a hammer and several sorts of flame Laughing
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