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Mary-Jane

Which breed of pig would you favour for beginners?

We're wanting to purchase a couple of weaners in the next few weeks. As complete novices to the 'pig game' we're not sure which breed to go for, although Gervase favours traditional breeds like the Gloucester Old Spot. We've read all the available info and asked around, but we'd be interested if any of you could recommend a particular favourite breed and why. I quite like the idea of Large Blacks which I gather are Welsh in origin and an old breed.

All thoughts or advice gratefully received. Very Happy
Jonnyboy

I'm in the same position as you, most of my research has pointed me towards tamworths as a good first time pig.
judith

We have reared two sets of weaners - the first pair were Tamworth x OSB and the second were Old Spots.
The Old Spots were very laid-back and docile and generally stayed put in their enclosure. The Tamworth/OSB were a lot more sparky and interested in what was going on, but managed to commando roll through the electric fence quite a few times.

In terms of eating qualities, the Tamworth/OSBs were very fatty (on the cusp of being too fat), but the flavour of the meat was superb - almost gamey - and the crackling was the best I have ever eaten. The GOS were a lot leaner, but the meat is much milder. Very nice, but not as special as the first pair.

That is about the sum of my advice and knowledge so far.
Mary-Jane

Jonnyboy wrote:
I'm in the same position as you, most of my research has pointed me towards tamworths as a good first time pig.


Actually us too...but I keep feeling that perhaps we should go down the rare breeds route on the basis that if we're going to do it, we may as well do something 'different' from the pack. What do you reckon?
Mary-Jane

Judith wrote:
We have reared two sets of weaners - the first pair were Tamworth x OSB and the second were Old Spots.
The Old Spots were very laid-back and docile and generally stayed put in their enclosure. The Tamworth/OSB were a lot more sparky and interested in what was going on, but managed to commando roll through the electric fence quite a few times.

In terms of eating qualities, the Tamworth/OSBs were very fatty (on the cusp of being too fat), but the flavour of the meat was superb - almost gamey - and the crackling was the best I have ever eaten. The GOS were a lot leaner, but the meat is much milder. Very nice, but not as special as the first pair.

That is about the sum of my advice and knowledge so far.


And very helpful indeed! Thanks so much Judith. But just to clarify (sorry, small brain) were the first pair (i.e. the Tamworths) 'special' in terms of the flavour of the meat...or the fun and Territorial Army games they provided you with?
Jonnyboy

Mary-Jane wrote:

Actually us too...but I keep feeling that perhaps we should go down the rare breeds route on the basis that if we're going to do it, we may as well do something 'different' from the pack. What do you reckon?


Totally agree, but on the basis I'll be doing this for years to come I'd like to break myself in gently. Remember Jimmy's farm and the almost extinct Essex pigs dropping like flies?

I don't know if i could handle that stress Laughing
judith

Mary-Jane wrote:
And very helpful indeed! Thanks so much Judith. But just to clarify (sorry, small brain) were the first pair (i.e. the Tamworths) 'special' in terms of the flavour of the meat...or the fun and Territorial Army games they provided you with?


LOL. I meant the flavour of the meat, but I think the first two were probably more interesting as pigs as well.
Stacey

We have tamworths and I've never tasted meat like it. They are prone to running to fat but if you time the slaughter properly and are strict on the feeding regimen you'll be rewarded with the best tasting pork ever. The extra fat just takes some getting used to as we're all used to dry, lean, white pork I suppose. The fat definitely adds to the flavour imo and if you simmer it off in the biggest chunks you have the best 'dripping' for making roasties.
Are tamworths not a rare breed anymore?
Mary-Jane

Jonnyboy wrote:
Totally agree, but on the basis I'll be doing this for years to come I'd like to break myself in gently. Remember Jimmy's farm and the almost extinct Essex pigs dropping like flies?

I don't know if i could handle that stress Laughing


True - but as we've had to recently endure a stillborn lamb and then a wether dropping dead, I would hope we'd find it less stressful than poor Jimmy, even if the breed we coose is rare. And his livelehood depended on the pigs...but ours doesn't. Does yours? Or are you doing it for food like us?
Jonnyboy

Mary-Jane wrote:

True - but as we've had to recently endure a stillborn lamb and then a wether dropping dead, I would hope we'd find it less stressful than poor Jimmy, even if the breed we coose is rare. And his livelehood depended on the pigs...but ours doesn't. Does yours? Or are you doing it for food like us?


Just for food, and fun!

What swung it for me was being given some Tamworth Bacon, the rind was larger than the meat! I think the whole idea of raising something which is the total opposite of modern porkers appeals to me.
Mary-Jane

Jonnyboy wrote:
Just for food, and fun!

What swung it for me was being given some Tamworth Bacon, the rind was larger than the meat! I think the whole idea of raising something which is the total opposite of modern porkers appeals to me.


Oh us too, without a doubt!
Nick

My vote is for OSBs.

I went for them because I knew nothing much. I wanted smaller, robust, disease resistant pigs, who weren't bolshy, and would taste nice as bacon or pork. They scored highly on all points. And get girls, not boys. I couldn't see any difference in taste, but the boy tried to escape more, pushed me over more and was bolshier.
fenwoman

Jonnyboy wrote:
I'm in the same position as you, most of my research has pointed me towards tamworths as a good first time pig.

Blimey no chance. They are one of the more 'lively' pig breeds.
Jonnyboy

fenwoman wrote:
Blimey no chance. They are one of the more 'lively' pig breeds.


Laughing 'Sociable' is the word that keeps cropping up!
Mary-Jane

Jonnyboy wrote:
fenwoman wrote:
Blimey no chance. They are one of the more 'lively' pig breeds.


Laughing 'Sociable' is the word that keeps cropping up!


For 'sociable' and 'lively' may I read 'bloody escape artists'?
Stacey

We're first timers with pigs and we haven't had any problem with the tamworths at all. They've been a joy.
alison

We have had saddlebacks (my favourite)
berkshires (my DH hated them)
Gos /large white x (23, our first batch of pigs (all lovely and bred from 2 of them)
Gos / Duroc (nice nature)
Saddleback / Duroc (very tasty, and not too fatty, but fattier than supermarket meat!)
OS&B / Saddle back (really delish)

It doesn't rally matter which breed it is for the husbandary side of things. You still have to look after them. Get ones you like the look of, that are in good health, and think about what you want to do with the meat, for how big to grow them.
dougal

Mary-Jane wrote:
For 'sociable' and 'lively' {about tamworths} may I read 'bloody escape artists'?

Look, I know next to nothing about pigs, and yet that specific reputation had penetrated my consciousness. (Similarly, I have this idea that its damn difficult to keep traditional Welsh sheep in a field...)
I'd have thought that more folk might have suggested something a little 'easier' to co-exist with. I mean, you are justifiably proud of those veggie beds, aren't you?
I can't see any shame in starting off with something chosen specifically to be easily manageable, and then, with a bit of experience, understanding of the animals and of your own abilities, being better able to assess the 'demands' other breeds may impose.
I think that the 'nature of the beast' has to be very important as these "guinea pigs" (ba-boom!) will be teaching *you* about pig-keeping...
Stacey

Ours have never even tried to escape. I don't recognise the tamwoths everyone else is talking about Confused
judith

What size enclosure do you plan giving them, M-J?
The larger the space, the less bored they will be and the less inclined to go walkabout.
Another factor will be how far you have to travel to get them. I could understand travelling across half the country to buy your breeding stock, but if you are just getting a couple of weaners as a try-out, I would see what is actually available closer to home before setting my heart on a particular pig.
High Green Farm

Re: Which breed of pig would you favour for beginners?

Mary-Jane wrote:
We're wanting to purchase a couple of weaners in the next few weeks. As complete novices to the 'pig game' we're not sure which breed to go for, although Gervase favours traditional breeds like the Gloucester Old Spot. We've read all the available info and asked around, but we'd be interested if any of you could recommend a particular favourite breed and why. I quite like the idea of Large Blacks which I gather are Welsh in origin and an old breed.

All thoughts or advice gratefully received. Very Happy


We started with 4 OSB, and they were great, and last week sent 5 GOS of to slaughter and kept a gilt to start breeding from this year. If you are just going to fatten, then I don't think it really matters what you choose. It may well be a case of what you find in your area at any particular time.

We originally thought that we would breed OSB's but then trying to find either a local boar or AI proved too difficult, so if you plan on breeding in the future, then that is another consideration.
High Green Farm

Judith wrote:
In terms of eating qualities, the Tamworth/OSBs were very fatty (on the cusp of being too fat), but the flavour of the meat was superb - almost gamey - and the crackling was the best I have ever eaten. The GOS were a lot leaner, but the meat is much milder. Very nice, but not as special as the first pair.


Judith, can I ask how much you are feeding per day? Our first OSB's we fed at a maximum of 6lb per day, but these GOS we were recommended to feed to a maximum of 4.5lb. The OSB were I think too fat, but so far the GOS seem to be perfect.
High Green Farm

Jonnyboy wrote:
Totally agree, but on the basis I'll be doing this for years to come I'd like to break myself in gently. Remember Jimmy's farm and the almost extinct Essex pigs dropping like flies?

I don't know if i could handle that stress Laughing


In my opinion his early experiences I believe were due to incompetence and poor husbandry. Amazing how things changed once he had hired his pig man! That said, I think he has done a great job in educating people about pigs.
judith

High Green Farm wrote:
Judith, can I ask how much you are feeding per day? Our first OSB's we fed at a maximum of 6lb per day, but these GOS we were recommended to feed to a maximum of 4.5lb. The OSB were I think too fat, but so far the GOS seem to be perfect.


With both pairs, we fed up to 6 lb per day, but I fed rather a lot of barley to the first pair which I think may have encouraged them to put on too much fat. The GOS were definitely much less fatty, even though they went to the abattoir nearly a month later than I intended.
High Green Farm

Judith wrote:

With both pairs, we fed up to 6 lb per day, but I fed rather a lot of barley to the first pair which I think may have encouraged them to put on too much fat. The GOS were definitely much less fatty, even though they went to the abattoir nearly a month later than I intended.


Thanks. Well I'll certainly be sticking with the lower amount going forward for two reasons: they are less fatty, and it costs less! Our first pigs cost £70 each to fatten, and these cost £45. Which means I can sell at a cheaper price per kg!
Stacey

I've got Tamworths
Have you really Stacey?
Yes I have

Rolling Eyes Laughing
judith

Did someone say something? Laughing
High Green Farm

No I didn't hear anything, perhaps they should speak louder Laughing
Stacey

Razz
Mary-Jane

Thank you so much everyone for all your advice. It has all been taken on board and is being discussed at home at great length.

To put you in the picture, we have about 5 acres in total, of which just over 4 acres is available for pigs to 'share' with the sheep at the present moment (the remaining land being made up of the kitchen garden, polytunnel and composting/storage area, general garden-ish, the farmyard & outbuildings and a small area set aside for planned fruit trees).

We currently rotate the sheep on the 4 acres + behind the main house with the help of electric fencing. At the far end of the 4 acre + field there is an old tin shack (quite large) with a dirt floor. Gervase's initial thoughts are that we should keep the pigs down there, in an area that we can fence off with electric fencing of up to half an acre or perhaps more. My reservations and questions are therefore:

1) There is a very, very boggy/muddy area of several square yards right in front of the tin shack which is still damp even in high summer - and a complete mud bath the rest of the year. Would this be a problem?

2) The tin shack is very large (roughly the size of a single garage) would it not be better to build a 'cosier' arc with a proper floor which can then be moved around and presumably more easily cleaned?

3) The fact that the pigs are the far end of the 4 acre field makes for a long walk there and back to feed them (the sheep come to us when called) and check on them...and even further to run after them if they escape! So would it be better to fence off an area closer to our main living/working area (i.e. closer to the kitchen garden) for the pigs?

4) If half an acre sufficient for two weaners to have a happy life, or should we subdivide and rotate the pigs within that area to allow part of it to 'rest'?

5) Should we go for (bearing in mind all the discussions and suggestions above) two bog standard weaners this year, just to 'see how we get on' and then plan the next move after that?

6) If we decide to breed next year, how much more land would we need to give over to the pigs, particularly if subdivision is necessary to rest the land.

Phew! My apologies for the long posting and additional questions, but we really value your inputs all round.
High Green Farm

Mary-Jane wrote:

1) There is a very, very boggy/muddy area of several square yards right in front of the tin shack which is still damp even in high summer - and a complete mud bath the rest of the year. Would this be a problem?


I wouldn't worry about it - the rest of your pig area will look like that pretty soon anyway! If you are worried, then perhaps digout the area that is muddy, and put some limestone/type 1/crushed concrete/ crusher run or whatevre it is called in your neck of the woods!


Mary-Jane wrote:

2) The tin shack is very large (roughly the size of a single garage) would it not be better to build a 'cosier' arc with a proper floor which can then be moved around and presumably more easily cleaned?


I'd tend to do that...if you can wait a week or so, I'll be publishing an article on how to make a pig house!

Mary-Jane wrote:

3) The fact that the pigs are the far end of the 4 acre field makes for a long walk there and back to feed them (the sheep come to us when called) and check on them...and even further to run after them if they escape! So would it be better to fence off an area closer to our main living/working area (i.e. closer to the kitchen garden) for the pigs?


Perhaps. I think it partly depends on how good your fencing is going to be. If you are just going to use electric, then they will escape at some point! We have post and rail with stock wire, and electric at the bottom....touch wood no escapes yet. But we can't afford for them to escape, as I am an hour and a half away in London!

Mary-Jane wrote:

4) If half an acre sufficient for two weaners to have a happy life, or should we subdivide and rotate the pigs within that area to allow part of it to 'rest'?


Plenty, but rotation can only be a good thing, and I would do it with that much land.

Mary-Jane wrote:

5) Should we go for (bearing in mind all the discussions and suggestions above) two bog standard weaners this year, just to 'see how we get on' and then plan the next move after that?


Unless you are breeding, then I think breed is not so important, but certainly go for one of the rare breeds. BPA site has good info and comparisons. http://www.britishpigs.org.uk/breedlist.htm

Mary-Jane wrote:

6) If we decide to breed next year, how much more land would we need to give over to the pigs, particularly if subdivision is necessary to rest the land.


I think three areas. One for the weaners you are fattening and you have weaned from the sow, one for your breeding sow, so you can get her back to the boar/AI, and one to rest.

Hope this helps
James
Mary-Jane

High Green Farm wrote:
...if you can wait a week or so, I'll be publishing an article on how to make a pig house!

James


Bloody brilliant James - all that advice was terrifically helpful. And I shall look forward hugely to your article on how to build a pig house - when I saw how much new ones from suppliers/manufacturers were I nearly passed out!

Thanks so much Very Happy
wellington womble

I know nothing about pigs (or sheep, or in fact, farming!) so this isn't advice, MJ! but my MIL (who is a new sheep farmer), tells me you can't keep sheep and pigs together on the same farm (at all) becuase pigs need lots of potassium, and excrete it, and the resulting land is then poisonous to the sheep. I've been meaning to ask someone here if thats true - it sounds a bit daft to me. So is it? - I've put it here, as if someone who does know something about farming can clarify, it will hopefully be helpful to MJ!

I really hope its not true - I like the idea of mixed farming.
judith

wellington womble wrote:
I know nothing about pigs (or sheep, or in fact, farming!) so this isn't advice, MJ! but my MIL (who is a new sheep farmer), tells me you can't keep sheep and pigs together on the same farm (at all) becuase pigs need lots of potassium, and excrete it, and the resulting land is then poisonous to the sheep. I've been meaning to ask someone here if thats true - it sounds a bit daft to me. So is it? - I've put it here, as if someone who does know something about farming can clarify, it will hopefully be helpful to MJ!

I really hope its not true - I like the idea of mixed farming.


Dunno anything about the potassium business, but I do know that you wouldn't be able to put sheep on a piece of ground after pigs had been on it - because they totally devastate the area. You would have to plough and reseed it before there was anything for the sheep to eat.
If you were going to have a mix of pigs and sheep, you would have to have separate paddocks for them anyway - so I can't see that there would be a problem with your mixed farming arrangement.
judith

Mary-Jane wrote:
High Green Farm wrote:
...if you can wait a week or so, I'll be publishing an article on how to make a pig house!

James


Bloody brilliant James - all that advice was terrifically helpful. And I shall look forward hugely to your article on how to build a pig house - when I saw how much new ones from suppliers/manufacturers were I nearly passed out!


I'm looking forward to that one with much anticipation too.
Lionheart

It's poultry and sheep that don't mix.

Don't keep sheep anywhere near where poultry have been as their droppings contain a high level of copper.....and sheep are copper intolerant.

Cris
Mary-Jane

ReevesRareBreeds wrote:
It's poultry and sheep that don't mix.

Don't keep sheep anywhere near where poultry have been as their droppings contain a high level of copper.....and sheep are copper intolerant.

Cris


Ah. We're soon to be taking delivery of our poultry as well (around half a dozen). They will be next to the sheep at least part of the time (as we rotate the sheep on the land), but will be very much penned into their own large high security chicken run (foxes are rife here - day and night), which is then divided in half and will also be rotated every month. They won't be able to get out and into the sheep area. Will that be okay - or should we have a strip of 'no mans land' (or 'no sheep land') between the chicken area and the sheep area?
Joey

OK lets's get this right.
It is copper not potassium that is a potential problem with sheep.
Normal artificial fertilizer for grassland has stacks of potassium in it so that is not a problem.
Some breeds especially continential breeds like Texels are very sensitive to toxicity while British hillbreeds eg Blackface are much more tolerant. As a precaution sheep compound feed does not have any supplemental copper in it. However in certain areas of the UK where there is low levels of copper in the soil, sheep can then suffer from copper deficiency and there are copper supplements for
sheep, drenches and pastes etc.
Now cattle,poulrty and pig feed all have copper in the normal vitamin and mineral supplementation and all carry warnings"Do not feed to sheep" and in some cases there are warnings not to keep sheep on land where pig manure has been spread. Since January a year ago only pig feed designed for feeding to pigs younger than 12 weeks of age can have high copper levels ie 170 mg/kg .
Pig finisher and breeder feed have copper levels very similar and in many cases lower than feeds for dairy cows ie 20-40mg/kg.
pig feeds. Layers feed tend to be even lower in copper.
Lots of farmers keep cattle and sheep together and I know of intensive pig farmers who keep sheep on land manured from the pigs.
So Don't let sheep eat any feed that is for feeding to other species
but I don't think there is any risk on keeping a few pigs on land where sheep will graze.
Mary-Jane

Ooh err - I'm getting a mite confused now. Confused

So it's perefctly okay for us to keep the chooks next to the sheep, behind the fencing so long as their feed doesn't get chucked over the fence? Our sheep feed is the proper stuff and only fed to the sheep - and our sheep are black-faced Suffolk and Texel crosses.
Joey

By Blackface I mean Scottish Blackface. Suffolk are a lowland breed
and intermediate in copper tolerance. So your Texel crosses would
tend toward being sensitive.
But lets get this into perspective. You have a few chickens and a few pigs and if the sheep will graze these areas as well as the other areas that wont' have had pigs or poultry on them they won't
be constantly exposed to high copper levels. You are not speading manure from 100's of pigs or 1000's of chickens on your few acres.
Your pig and poultry feed purchases will be measured in kilos / year
not 100's of tonnes.
You do not have to worry at all.
Mary-Jane

Joey wrote:
But lets get this into perspective. You have a few chickens and a few pigs and if the sheep will graze these areas as well as the other areas that wont' have had pigs or poultry on them they won't
be constantly exposed to high copper levels. You are not speading manure from 100's of pigs or 1000's of chickens on your few acres.
Your pig and poultry feed purchases will be measured in kilos / year
not 100's of tonnes. You do not have to worry at all.


Ah - I see. Right-ho. Thanks very much Joey. Sorry about the panic!
mochyn

My two Tamworth weaners arrived at the end of November and are wonderful! I'm a first timer, and had thought of getting a more docile breed but as I've always wanted Tamworths I jumped in at the deep end and not regretted it. I'm aiming at building up to 6lb per pig per day at 6 months, by which time I'll be deciding which is to stay as my breeding girl and which to become meat. When that happens I'll get anopther 1 or 2 in to keep the breeder company and send the eater away to be dealt with.

They have a quarter acre of woodland and love it, they've turned it into mud and love rampaging around. They have an electric fence and a large ark as it's going to be the farrowing ark when the time comes. The breeder and her chums will go into our top field in the spring where they'll be fenced in electrically again as we have public footpaths all over our land. This is partly to rest the woodland and partly because we need the bracken in the top field digging up! It's about an acre, so they'll have lots of space.

Before I bought them I met the parents: a lovely sow and boar, the boar a show winner. That was definitely a good move: gave me an idea of ultimate size and let me see the condition and conformation of the parents.

They are very active pigs, but they respect the fence. My only (slight) worry is that one day they're going to push me over!

If you're worried, Tony York runs smashing pig-keepikng courses at Pig Paradise in Staffordshire. I can really reccommend them. He also sells pigs, arks and feed!
judith

mochyn wrote:
My only (slight) worry is that one day they're going to push me over!


That's how you know when they are ready to go.
Jonnyboy

Mochyn, how much did you pay for them? If you don't mind saying that is.
mochyn

My girls were £40 each.
Jonnyboy

Thanks, trying to get an idea of prices. They seem to vary from around £20 to £50 depending upon the breed etc.
Mary-Jane

Jonnyboy wrote:
They seem to vary from around £20 to £50 depending upon the breed etc.


Yes, from what I've seen it's about that range.
wellington womble

Aha - so MIL with her six sheep and six chickens does not need to concern herself with trace elements, then?! I have a cunning plan to get her to keep some pigs, as I am very fond of real pork, and she has eight acres to fill up, and is being mighty slow about it, which makes my fingers itch!
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