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gold fever mr behemoth?
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dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 32739
Location: yes
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 15 11:18 pm    Post subject: gold fever mr behemoth?  Reply with quote    

a rather neat bit of thinkingmight be needed to make it pay but it does seem to suggest a practical,profitable, low energy input solution might be possible.

my inorganic chemistry is a bit rusty ( ) but if folk get gold out of low load ores i recon out of solution or micro/nano particulates in mucky liquids cant be much more difficult.

burning sludge to make ore seems a bit ott but there are other means of concentrating metals from a dilute solution and if sludge is burned anyway using the ash seems a decent idea.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 8598

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 15 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

When we did trace chemicals at college the amount of gold in sea water was something we covered, so sludge would be similar I would think. Not economically viable at the time, but can be when the price of precious metals rise.

The lecturer left us with the percentages of things like arsenic, phosgene and cyanide in tobacco smoke. Made the smokers think for at least 30secs. before lighting up.

Behemoth



Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 18977
Location: Leeds
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 15 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Theoretically possible. Processing sludge is messy and expensive though, particularly the incineration route. If you have poor quality sludge your basically trying to burn water.

This made me laugh:

". These tend to involve the use of powerful chemicals known as leachates that are used by industrial operations to extract metals from rock. While they can be toxic to ecosystems, in the controlled setting of a sewage plant they can be safely used without environmental risk. "

There is always risk and an STW is not a safe place to use them as they are not designed to do this. You could build an extraction plant alongside an STW.

Most large sewage works are now managed as power stations, processing the sludge to generate gas or heat, to generate energy and the ash goes to the construction industry. If someone wants to extract metals from it they can buy it if us. Maybe one day they will.

The Bradford works used to extract lanolin from the sewage and sold it to the cosmetics industry! Had to stop when the mills closed.

Behemoth



Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 18977
Location: Leeds
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 15 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

In the old days when the larger sewers were 'walked' by gangs to clear debris, the youngest member was given a buckt to go 'fishing' for loose change and jewellery. The finds being used to buy the beers at the end of the shift.

tahir



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 43901
Location: Essex
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 15 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Surprised not to see you in this shot:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/34836397/leeds-pub-garden-floods-men-go-for-pint-anyway

Behemoth



Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 18977
Location: Leeds
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 15 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

The bridge, in Kirkstall, good independent pub. I'm going soft, they've got a comfortable bar 3m above the water. Houses used to be where the beer garden is, letting the river in was a regular occurrence.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 32739
Location: yes
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 15 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Behemoth wrote:
Theoretically possible. Processing sludge is messy and expensive though, particularly the incineration route. If you have poor quality sludge your basically trying to burn water.

This made me laugh:

". These tend to involve the use of powerful chemicals known as leachates that are used by industrial operations to extract metals from rock. While they can be toxic to ecosystems, in the controlled setting of a sewage plant they can be safely used without environmental risk. "

There is always risk and an STW is not a safe place to use them as they are not designed to do this. You could build an extraction plant alongside an STW.

Most large sewage works are now managed as power stations, processing the sludge to generate gas or heat, to generate energy and the ash goes to the construction industry. If someone wants to extract metals from it they can buy it if us. Maybe one day they will.

The Bradford works used to extract lanolin from the sewage and sold it to the cosmetics industry! Had to stop when the mills closed.


that is interesting,if one end product of treatment/energy extraction is ash the idea seems to be plausible to use that as ore if the "feed"is sufficiently rich from either industrial activity or domestic in places where precious metals are common.

the lanolin story is gross

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 32739
Location: yes
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 15 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Behemoth wrote:
Theoretically possible. Processing sludge is messy and expensive though, particularly the incineration route. If you have poor quality sludge your basically trying to burn water.

This made me laugh:

". These tend to involve the use of powerful chemicals known as leachates that are used by industrial operations to extract metals from rock. While they can be toxic to ecosystems, in the controlled setting of a sewage plant they can be safely used without environmental risk. "

There is always risk and an STW is not a safe place to use them as they are not designed to do this. You could build an extraction plant alongside an STW.

Most large sewage works are now managed as power stations, processing the sludge to generate gas or heat, to generate energy and the ash goes to the construction industry. If someone wants to extract metals from it they can buy it if us. Maybe one day they will.

The Bradford works used to extract lanolin from the sewage and sold it to the cosmetics industry! Had to stop when the mills closed.


that is interesting,if one end product of treatment/energy extraction is ash the idea seems to be plausible to use that as ore if the "feed"is sufficiently rich from either industrial activity or domestic in places where precious metals are common.

the lanolin story is gross

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 33629
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 15 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Someone in the UK is doing this on a pre-commercial scale. I believe he makes a tidy packet on the side doing it whilst at work.

Mistress Rose



Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 8598

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 15 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

There is a folk song I have heard called 'Down Below' about what can be found in the sewers. Even talks of a diamond being found.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 32739
Location: yes
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 15 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Nick wrote:
Someone in the UK is doing this on a pre-commercial scale. I believe he makes a tidy packet on the side doing it whilst at work.


ummm interesting ,i think i need to do some reading.

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 33629
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 15 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

dpack wrote:
Nick wrote:
Someone in the UK is doing this on a pre-commercial scale. I believe he makes a tidy packet on the side doing it whilst at work.


ummm interesting ,i think i need to do some reading.


He also has a supply of dead circuit boards which he plunders, too.

dpack



Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 32739
Location: yes
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 15 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

circuit boards and components make quite a rich ore but the "easy" way of getting the metals separated from the plastics and minerals starts with burning them which is a very messy process(especially the way it is done third world style in an old wok).iirc the metal refiners who need to work within decent environmental controls have decided it is uneconomic to do it.

i had considered the direct mince and aqua regia route but that has a few issues with the fumes ,the side products,preventing runaway reactions when "randomly"nitrating a mixture of plastics,paper labels etc,waste disposal and the usual handling problems when messing about with nasty chemicals.

to receive the "ore"in a pre ashed form from a plant made for the job seems ideal.

Nick



Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 33629
Location: Hereford
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 15 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

He's using Aqua Regia route.

Behemoth



Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 18977
Location: Leeds
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 15 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

The best place to start recycling is the design and construction phase.

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