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Is it possible to live supermarket-free?
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crofter



Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 2252

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 12 7:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Is it possible to live supermarket-free?  Reply with quote    

npsmama wrote:
Do you think it's possible to live supermarket-free?


Yes.

The supermarkets in Shetland have recently had to fly in supplies after a few days of stormy weather and no goods arriving by sea. Oddly, the smaller local shops which maintain more than 1-2 days stock and do not rely on jit delivery did not see much panic buying...

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 12 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Mithril wrote:
With severe peanut and nut allergies in the family it's very difficult to become supermarket free. We get a veg box, but meat, oils, cheeses etc could easily contain traces, so I really rely on allergy warnings onlabels.


Meat & cheese containing nuts? Manufacturered products I can see but plain meat & dairy are usually produced in more highly hygienic dedicated facilities than veg...

Mithril



Joined: 22 Jul 2011
Posts: 1755
Location: wessex
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 12 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Rob R wrote:
Mithril wrote:
With severe peanut and nut allergies in the family it's very difficult to become supermarket free. We get a veg box, but meat, oils, cheeses etc could easily contain traces, so I really rely on allergy warnings onlabels.


Meat & cheese containing nuts? Manufacturered products I can see but plain meat & dairy are usually produced in more highly hygienic dedicated facilities than veg...


There seem to be a few speciality cheeses around, with say walnuts, and many butchers use stuffings which may contain nuts or traces of nuts (some sausages too). With such severe allergies, (even a trace can be a problem), I'm never sure how safe they are for allergy sufferers. The thing with the supermarkets is that they will state if the product is free from traces of nuts. Even then, if the nut free product is on the meat, cheese or deli counter with nut products I still daren't buy it, so I end up having to buy the packaged stuff.

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 12 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

If a factory handles nuts they usually list non-nut products as possibly containing traces of nuts but I've not heard of nut-free labelling, as that leaves you open to litigation if some nut traces were found to be present at some point. We're advised to label if there is a chance, rather than if there isn't one.

Small scale producers of cheese & meat are less likely than supermarkets to contain traces as they're dealing with smaller batches and hence far less chance of cross contamination. Artisan cheesemakers, as opposed to large factories or cheesemongers, tend to only have a select few speciality cheeses that they produce and rarely blend fruit & nuts the way the big factories do. There are also fewer people involved that could accidentally introduce traces through personal contamination. The sheer scale of mass food production & distribution puts the chances of a foodstuff coming into contact with nuts far higher than buying direct, on a par with the veg box producers.

You're free to choose how and where to buy the safest products for yourself but I wouldn't like it to be put forward as an advantage of supermarkets, for the reasons stated above.

earthyvirgo



Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 7972
Location: creating prints in the loft, Gerlan
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 12 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Chez wrote:
Welcome, Eigon.

We went down to Cullompton on Saturday - it had the look of a town dying on it's feet. There was a shiny new Tesco on the outskirts of the town and lots of 'for lease' boards up on the High Street. And the Spar was shut down. It was really depressing and both of us wondered aloud on the way home whether it was the advent of the supermarket that had done it - or at least, driven the nail in.


What a shame - used to be quite a nice little place to visit when I was in Exeter back in the 80's.

EV

Mithril



Joined: 22 Jul 2011
Posts: 1755
Location: wessex
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 12 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Rob R wrote:
If a factory handles nuts they usually list non-nut products as possibly containing traces of nuts but I've not heard of nut-free labelling, as that leaves you open to litigation if some nut traces were found to be present at some point. We're advised to label if there is a chance, rather than if there isn't one.

Small scale producers of cheese & meat are less likely than supermarkets to contain traces as they're dealing with smaller batches and hence far less chance of cross contamination. Artisan cheesemakers, as opposed to large factories or cheesemongers, tend to only have a select few speciality cheeses that they produce and rarely blend fruit & nuts the way the big factories do. There are also fewer people involved that could accidentally introduce traces through personal contamination. The sheer scale of mass food production & distribution puts the chances of a foodstuff coming into contact with nuts far higher than buying direct, on a par with the veg box producers.

You're free to choose how and where to buy the safest products for yourself but I wouldn't like it to be put forward as an advantage of supermarkets, for the reasons stated above.


Certainly food for thought, thanks.

Currently, if I know the food producer labels for traces then I'm fine with buying something that just does not list nuts as a potential allergen (unless I spot too many recalls on Allergy UK etc). As for nut free labelling, Waitrose produce a free from nut and peanut list (and also lists for some other allergens). I'm not aware of any others who do this, other than a few chocolate makers, e.g. Kinnerton.

arvo



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 3321
Location: Somerset
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 12 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

One thing I have been enjoying though is a a Christmas largely provided by the farmers market. It's one of the *huge* benefits of selling stuff there.
Goose, sausages, cheese, beer, smoked fish, ham, veg. We've had a lovely tasting Christmas . The market does contain nuts though.

toggle



Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 11622
Location: truro
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 12 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

arvo wrote:
The market does contain nuts though.





erm............


we know, we saw the pictures

Pilgrim1975



Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Posts: 149
Location: Here And There
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 12 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

toggle wrote:
we know, we saw the pictures


People post pictures of their nuts..?

Is that only in the Naughty Corner, then?

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25670
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 12 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Rob R wrote:
Small scale producers of cheese & meat are less likely than supermarkets to contain traces as they're dealing with smaller batches and hence far less chance of cross contamination. Artisan cheesemakers, as opposed to large factories or cheesemongers, tend to only have a select few speciality cheeses that they produce and rarely blend fruit & nuts the way the big factories do.


While there's plenty of benefits of using local suppliers I wouldn't say labeling and knowledge of ingredients is one of their strongest hands, certainly not at the places I use. We regularly buy cheese and sausages now from two producers and both tend to experiment a fair bit with other ingredients and neither list anything on the packaging.

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 12 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Treacodactyl wrote:
Rob R wrote:
Small scale producers of cheese & meat are less likely than supermarkets to contain traces as they're dealing with smaller batches and hence far less chance of cross contamination. Artisan cheesemakers, as opposed to large factories or cheesemongers, tend to only have a select few speciality cheeses that they produce and rarely blend fruit & nuts the way the big factories do.


While there's plenty of benefits of using local suppliers I wouldn't say labeling and knowledge of ingredients is one of their strongest hands, certainly not at the places I use. We regularly buy cheese and sausages now from two producers and both tend to experiment a fair bit with other ingredients and neither list anything on the packaging.


Sausages are fair game, as there are a few nut sausages out there, but they are manufacturered meat products, I don't think you'd get the same for meat in general. From all the different cheeses I've bought, apart from the blends, I can't think of any nut cheeses.

The whole point of using local producers is supposed to be about food provenance & traceability. I think if you have a producer who can't tell you what has gone into a product then I'd be very wary about using them at all.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25670
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 12 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Rob R wrote:
From all the different cheeses I've bought, apart from the blends, I can't think of any nut cheeses.

The whole point of using local producers is supposed to be about food provenance & traceability. I think if you have a producer who can't tell you what has gone into a product then I'd be very wary about using them at all.


The main cheese producer now makes her cheeses in her kitchen, so technically I expect not guaranteed nut free.

I know provenance and traceability is often touted but we've found it very rare to find. Even suppliers we know personally don't bother to differentiate stuff they grow themselves from stuff they buy in - there doesn't seem to be much demand from people to know.

Pilsbury



Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 5644
Location: East london/Essex
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 12 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Just as bloke off the telly now makes his nut butter in the same space he makes jerky, fruit scrolls and vegan cheeses as well as the rest of his range it would be very very hard to certify stuff nut free for Tue purpose of people with serious allergies and he is one of the best I know at knowing the provenance of his ingredients.

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 12 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Treacodactyl wrote:
Rob R wrote:
From all the different cheeses I've bought, apart from the blends, I can't think of any nut cheeses.

The whole point of using local producers is supposed to be about food provenance & traceability. I think if you have a producer who can't tell you what has gone into a product then I'd be very wary about using them at all.


The main cheese producer now makes her cheeses in her kitchen, so technically I expect not guaranteed nut free.

I know provenance and traceability is often touted but we've found it very rare to find. Even suppliers we know personally don't bother to differentiate stuff they grow themselves from stuff they buy in - there doesn't seem to be much demand from people to know.


Perhaps we're talking about different scales of production if you're buying from people producing dairy produce in their kitchen. I didn't know that was even allowed nevermind practical. There's a long way between cottage industries & supermarkets though.

Rob R



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 12 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote    

Pilsbury wrote:
Just as bloke off the telly now makes his nut butter in the same space he makes jerky, fruit scrolls and vegan cheeses as well as the rest of his range it would be very very hard to certify stuff nut free for Tue purpose of people with serious allergies and he is one of the best I know at knowing the provenance of his ingredients.


I'd put him in the same category as food manfacturers rather than producers, his provenance would mean he wouldn't tell people it was nut-free or label it as such if he was handling nuts. That's the advantage of small producers - you can usually speak to the very person that handles the food.

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